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Hugh_Farey
Guest
Not to you, it doesn’t; but it does to me, and most importantly, it does to God, who did it.
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Gorgias
Guest
Aah, but even the creation narrative of Genesis 2 says we’re a ‘mutation’: God didn’t create us directly, according to the text, but rather He “formed” us, and did it from the starting material of the “dust of the ground”!Theories of evolution speak of transformations.
We are either created as humanity or we are a mutation
So, if you want to quibble, evolution only changes the description of from what we proceeded, and not introduces the concept…
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mVitus
Guest
And the foundation of truth has decided evolution does not contradict Catholic faith. So now let’s take that the next step. The Catholic Church which you agree is more trustworthy says evolution is permissible. You, who you agree is less trustworthy say it is not. Who is right?The former. As the Scripture says, the Church is “the pillar and foundation of the truth.”
Please explain why God after creating Adam like us decided to create Neanderthals?Not to you, it doesn’t; but it does to me, and most importantly, it does to God, who did it.
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mVitus
Guest
Why would God not make them? And if God didn’t make them, where did the skeletons come from?But God created Adam and Eve like us so why would he create Neanderthals too? It makes no sense.
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Aloysium
Guest
God is not a deistic entity but is intimately involved in His creation in every moment that is created from eternity, this and every here and now.
There is no reason for God to make them after He made Adam and there is no reason for Him to make them before Adam.Why would God not make them? And if God didn’t make them, where did the skeletons come from?
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mVitus
Guest
THIS! The reason I know I am adamant on making clear that a faithful Catholic can accept evolution is to help destroy the false dilemma. If someone disagrees with the science, I’m really not too concerned about that as much anymore. But if someone tells the falsehood that it’s either or between God and evolution, that’s spiritually damaging not only to the person (denying Church authority and if they ever do start to agree with the science), but scandalizes others.However, in rejecting Creationism, they may well also reject all the religion which goes with it, and become atheists, which is a pity.
If Christians insisted on a geocentric flat earth as required by faith, we would be laughed off into oblivion. The same principle is happening today with evolution in some cases. Science knows it occurred and so for the vast majority of learned people (including many Catholics and Catholic clergy) saying evolution didn’t happen is like saying the noon sky is fuschia pink. And so an insistence that evolution cannot be accepted by Christians drives people away because, for many people, contradicts logic. And that is a source for loss of faith, not evolution itself.
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mVitus
Guest
So where do the skeletons come from?There is no reason for God to make them after He made Adam and there is no reason for Him to make them before Adam.
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Aloysium
Guest
This begins in high school and undergraduate programs, where it becomes clear very quickly that even though one may go into a full explanation of the sources of error, you aren’t going to get the top marks you would otherwise get if the results were in the expected range. So, people tweak the numbers, working backwards to get what the theories say they should have. Blaming politics is sort of missing the key problem which is human nature. Politics is a factor because people, in terms of what they want to get from the society in which they participate, are interested in increasing their personal power. However, we generally care more for what power can bring, such as prestige, wealth, pleasures and perhaps hopefully happiness. Science is a social institution; caveat emptor.
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Aloysium
Guest
Isn’t that what you are doing here?Who in the church alive TODAY should I ask?
You can take things from human authority, but unltimately you have to come to the conclusion yourself. We do that in such matters through prayer and at that point you may find that ifor you it is inconsequential, because what is of supreme importance is our relationship with Jesus.
For me this exercise is part of a life-long journey, towards the truth of what it means to exist as a living creature.
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Aloysium
Guest
What I understand is that space is expanding. There is no space into which it grows.The universe really isn’t expending into any ‘space’, nor is there anywhere in ‘space’ that is its centre. In that sense, it really is expanding into nothing, and it really has no centre.
As every place is “here” when we imagine ourselves “there” in relation to this here, every time is “now” in its moment. The initial singularity, if that hypothesis can ever be validated, was here and now as is every other place-moment within the totality of creation.
Wherever we place our consciousness is the centre of everything that surrounds that moment in space-time. That being the case, we can say there is no true centre in space time. On the other hand, it seems clear that the entire cosmos is centred around the incarnation, death and resurrections of our Lord, where everything is one, from the eating of the fruit in the Garden to our final resurrection.
God would be at the Centre of the cosmic balloon that describes the expansion of the universe, reaching out into space and time bringing it into existence and intimately involved with His creation as the Triune Godhead.
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Not Neanderthals just some tribe.So where do the skeletons come from?
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mVitus
Guest
Look at the brow and the legs. They’re very similar, but there are differences. Neanderthals for example had larger pelvises,
So do the people I work with that have downs syndrome, are they Neanderthals too?Look at the brow and the legs. They’re very similar, but there are differences. Neanderthals for example had larger pelvises,
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mVitus
Guest
Look at it like this. Husky dogs and grey wolves are very similar. But they’re different species. Much like Neanderthals and humans.
And I’m not gonna dignify your straw man with a response.
And I’m not gonna dignify your straw man with a response.
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Aloysium
Guest
I am by no means quibbling.He “formed” us, and did it from the starting material of the “dust of the ground”!
That material is inert in the sense that, while it does exist and possesses certain qualities and exhibits interactions within its components that make it what it is, these are neither expressions of a psychological dimension, nor do they have self awareness or the capacity to act as causal agents.
What God created was humanity, of which we are individual expressions.
This is an either-or, all-or-nothing reality. One cannot be partially human. Regardless of one’s genetic configuration or how our physical bodies can express our humanity, a person is a person, from the moment of conception to our end, awake, delerious, demented or in a coma on our death-bed.
We see in Genesis revealed that God created the world in steps, utilizing what had been previously been created into new forms of being. You and I individually exist as one being. That being is not solitary but exists in relation to everything else. Although individual persons, made up of “processes” that can be described in terms of physical, psychological and spiritual dimensions, we remain a unity - perceiving, thinking, feeling and acting as one being, participating within the rest of creation. And, we do so as part of something bigger, broken in Adam and reunited in Christ, Divine Love.
Mankind is a new creation utilizing the information that allows for the existence of life - our capacities to grow and procreate in harmony with nature, as part of nature, that part which brings it all into the Trinity through Christ. As far as I am concerned, we are as much descended from hominids, as we are from the burgers we ate for lunch and incorporated into our own physical being.
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Aloysium
Guest
I agree. But, that would not be the determining factor. A person’s humanity is not decided on their appearance to others, but upon their relationship with God. Our spiritual nature makes us something other than animals. Those of us who choose to act that way do not become animals, but rather demonic.they don’t look any different to people I have seen in real life.
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