Anybody out there "pro-choice"?

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Abortion is legal. Well there you go. A good reason to commit murder and to take millions of lives. Perhaps society needs to have a bit of moral surgery done on it to correct it’s problem.

The strong desire to live starts at birth. This is the very time that it is taken away from so many. Respect life in any stage. A fetus will fight to escape the vacuum tip. A baby having surgery in utero will grasp the finger of the Dr. and hang on. Our instinct is to survive and unfortunately there are many dying to give others the “out” that is done in the dark and in secret. For a reason. All crimes are usually done, in the dark and in secret.

To make a fully informed decision on her “surgical procedure” a woman should have to observe all the forms of Abortion that she may be entitled to, with all it’s “messiness”. In the full light of day. Then perhaps she can make an “educated decision”. Like every “medical” procedure she should be FULLY informed. No?

Lets call it what it is. An “out”. Usually a back up for a failed birth control device or drug which usually, by the way, is an abortifactant. To take away this “right” would be to take away the lifestyles of the majority of women today. This is sad. We need to educate men and women to the correct reasons that they can procreate. Sex is not meant to be a extracuricular activity, nor the end of a date. It is a God given gift meant for marriage and children. Within marriage it can be pleasure giving as well as life given. But only in marriage.

Sorry that I am so “old fashioned” and a religious fanatic that actually believes in the teachings of God and Holy Mother Church, but so be it. I am bound by my Baptism to be so.

Have a good week.
 
CMP2 said:
Abortion is legal. Well there you go. A good reason to commit murder and to take millions of lives. Perhaps society needs to have a bit of moral surgery done on it to correct it’s problem.

The strong desire to live starts at birth. This is the very time that it is taken away from so many. Respect life in any stage. A fetus will fight to escape the vacuum tip. A baby having surgery in utero will grasp the finger of the Dr. and hang on. Our instinct is to survive and unfortunately there are many dying to give others the “out” that is done in the dark and in secret. For a reason. All crimes are usually done, in the dark and in secret.

To make a fully informed decision on her “surgical procedure” a woman should have to observe all the forms of Abortion that she may be entitled to, with all it’s “messiness”. In the full light of day. Then perhaps she can make an “educated decision”. Like every “medical” procedure she should be FULLY informed. No?

Lets call it what it is. An “out”. Usually a back up for a failed birth control device or drug which usually, by the way, is an abortifactant. To take away this “right” would be to take away the lifestyles of the majority of women today. This is sad. We need to educate men and women to the correct reasons that they can procreate. Sex is not meant to be a extracuricular activity, nor the end of a date. It is a God given gift meant for marriage and children. Within marriage it can be pleasure giving as well as life given. But only in marriage.

Sorry that I am so “old fashioned” and a religious fanatic that actually believes in the teachings of God and Holy Mother Church, but so be it. I am bound by my Baptism to be so.

Have a good week.
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Great post! I just wanted to add one thing: To take away this “right” would be to take away the lifestyles of the majority of women *and men *today. Men benefit, sometimes even more than women, from abortion.
 
limerick said:
But it is an ordinary medical procedure. Fifty million and counting, didn’t someone say? I’d say it’s more routine than heart surgery or brain surgery or gall bladder surgery. Wouldn’t you, Sailor Kenshin?

Limerick
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Of course I would not, and your replies continue to be flip and disingenuous on a grave matter such as abortion.

It’s already ‘legal’ to murder an unborn baby. Now, the old and inconvenient. When someone declares your life to be worthless to the state, who will stand in its way?
 
limerick said:
**
I am for choice, every person’s right granted by virtue of his or her own free will, to live according to their own moral guidelines, their own consciences, their own acceptance of whatever consequences may arise as a result of actions taken **
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You are not for the choice. The baby gets no choice. You are for the choice of one person only. That hardly seems reasonable.
 
“Sorry that I am so “old fashioned” and a religious fanatic …”

**Me, too.

L**
 
fix said:
You are not for the choice. The baby gets no choice. You are for the choice of one person only. That hardly seems reasonable.
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**All right, how about I’m for the same choice that 50 million other women chose. How are those numbers?

L**
 
limerick said:
**All right, how about I’m for the same choice that 50 million other women chose. How are those numbers?

L**
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Yes, if you are being honest then you want to limit choices. Only the select get the “choice”.
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
Of course I would not, and your replies continue to be flip and disingenuous on a grave matter such as abortion.

It’s already ‘legal’ to murder an unborn baby. Now, the old and inconvenient. When someone declares your life to be worthless to the state, who will stand in its way?
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**Did someone just give you a dictionary and the only word contained therein is “disingenuous”? I’d be asking for a thesaurus if I were you. But, glad not to be you.

When** someone declares my life to be worthless? Who? And why worthless “to the state”? What scenario are you failing to set up? Take a little more time to explain your question and I will respond.

L
 
SteveGC said:
These “thousands of reasons” originate from people (family, friends, society at large), many of whom take a direct line to the woman to encourage abortion (Planned Parenthood is the public version of this, but hundreds of thousands of every-day folks are engaging these women also. That’s why I stated before that we have to remember that a person’s conscience (a person’s moral fiber) is not developed in a vacuum, and a large part of it involves a person’s relationship and interaction with people, where they absorb, filter and reject or accept much of what society encourages, whether good or bad. So my questions, L, are these…

Do you have a beef with people whose actions in society collectively work toward the encouragement of having an abortion? Do you have a beef with Planned Parenthood?

Are pro-life people not allowed to help form a woman’s conscience, but pro-choice people are allowed to help her?

Are you upset at pro-life methods of helping…because they seem to you to be intervening in an unwelcome manner? If so, how would you define the pro-choice methods?
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**The “thousands of reasons” I originally referred to came to fruition in the minds of the women seeking abortions, not in the minds of their fathers or mothers or shrinks or priests or teachers or plumbers.

As far as encouraging a woman to have an abortion: I am just as disgruntled by the person who actively encourages it as by the one who actively discourages it. The decision is up the the individual woman. Whether or not other people, places, things or institutions have influenced her up to that point is out of anyone’s control. She has the responsibility to know herself well enough to choose the appropriate course of action. Sadly, many women do not have much in the way of self-awareness and this is a starting point in trying to turn the tide of abortion, by education, by support for women who want to understand what it means to be a woman, a girl, a child. It has to start early.

I disapprove of “pro-life methods of helping” when do-gooders get in women’s faces about baby killing. Pro-choice methods and pro-life methods should be the same thing: give little girls realistic ideas about girlhood, adolescence, womanhood, and all responsibilites attached. Boys need the same instruction. This is where I think “abstinence only” can be harmful because it is so tempting for parents to say, “Just DON’T DO IT,” without any discussion about sexuality, conception, birth control, reproductive health in mind, body and spirit. This is where the Church and I totally split and I have no interest in returning to those dark days of ignorance.

Limerick **
 
fix said:
You are not for the choice. The baby gets no choice. You are for the choice of one person only. That hardly seems reasonable.
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newborn babies aren’t able to make choices either. they’re not developed enough yet.
 
Pro-choice and pro-life the same thing? Lies are Truth and Truth are Lies? What is Truth?

Confusion generated by The Deceiver, The Liar, that which does not live within The Truth. The Liar does not have to convince that there is no Truth all it has to do is convince that there is no Lie.
 
GodLovesTheSpek said:
Pro-choice and pro-life the same thing? Lies are Truth and Truth are Lies? What is Truth?

Confusion generated by The Deceiver, The Liar, that which does not live within The Truth. The Liar does not have to convince that there is no Truth all it has to do is convince that there is no Lie.
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It helps if you use the Quote button in the lower right-hand corner of the post you are responding to so that we know what you are responding to.
 
fix said:
Yes, if you are being honest then you want to limit choices. Only the select get the “choice”.
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**No, you completely DISunderstand.

It is not only a select number of people who enjoy choice. It is everyone. I happen to count myself, due to my experience with abortion, among those women who have also chosen abortion. That does not mean other women cannot, and do not, choose to carry their pregnancies to term.

I’m tired of having to take a wrench to all of your remarks. You’re smarter than that. I shouldn’t have to correct you every time you bolt out of the chute.

Limerick**
 
fix said:
I am saying you claim to be “pro choice” but only for the woman. The baby gets no choice.
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**
Are you thoroughly unconcerned with, say, the father in this matter? I endorse choice for the father, as well.

Once again: we are talking about a fetus here. Before birth: fetus. After birth: baby. And yes, because it is unable to cast a vote on the subject, the “baby” gets no choice, not at this time in history, anyway.

Limerick**
 
CMP2 tells us, “The strong desire to live starts at birth.”****

And not at conception? I’m very nearly horrified to hear a Catholic make this statement! Could this be another explanation why the fetus does not get a vote?

Limerick
 
limerick said:
**All right, how about I’m for the same choice that 50 million other women chose. How are those numbers?

L**
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Unspeakable.

There is no defense for abortion. I don’t think you will be able to spin the truth that a baby is a baby from conception, not a fetus.

At one point, someone graciously ‘allowed’ you to be born. Yet you wish to stand in the way of the rights of others who seek only that same ‘privilege?’ Equally unspeakable.
 
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