Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum

[R_not]

Dear Brother,

I know what you are feeling, brother. But, for the sake of Jesus, whom you believe too, please calm down. Jesus teach us to love our “enemy” right. Let alone, Planten definitely is not our enemy. He just has not finished reading the new testament yet, so he missed the point that Jesus ordered us to love our enemy. When he reach the correct verse, he will understand because Jesus said so directly without any parables and without any need for further interpretation.

Perhaps, I suggest to use the word “Argue” rather than “Fight”. That should be a better word. From my earlier postings, you will know that how much I argue Paarsurrey, for example. But, between me and Paar, we respect and we like each other. Me and Planten, also had a strong argument before. But, after we understand each other better, me and Planten agreed to disagree, but we do this peacefully. I don’t want you to increase your blood pressure, brother.

I think that I have to say that ‘loving our enemy’ should not be confused with just blind acceptance of them having an idiology that says to kill, convert, or subjugate us with jihad being their primary duty and with jihadist tactics varying.

I also think that if you look at morningstar’s history you will understand his insistence - he has lived under islam and knows it.

I will post this again because I think we should all read it:

sheikyermami.com/2008/05/13/serge-trifkovic-can-the-west-be-saved/

While we think that ‘loving our enemy’ means appeasement, not doing anything to stop the onslaught because it is indeed an onslaught of them working to impose their idiology on us, and being politically correct, etc - you might as well ask us to just sit down and die.

I work to not condemn my, or your, children to islam and so does morningstar.

 

[R_not]

There was a post that explained the concepts of lying in islam - and there were many excerpts from the koran, hadiths and the sharia law that tells them to do it whenever they feel against us. And yes, they do indeed lie.

When a person who appeases islam, or a muslim, tells us that they are not the enemy while that person is telling us how benign islam is - that is a lie by the person telling us how islam is. It is not benign, it is not peaceful and islam has the worst intentions for all of us infidels.

 

[swariffin]

I think that I have to say that ‘loving our enemy’ should not be confused with just blind acceptance of them having an idiology that says to kill, convert, or subjugate us with jihad being their primary duty and with jihadist tactics varying.

I also think that if you look at morningstar’s history you will understand his insistence - he has lived under islam and knows it.

I will post this again because I think we should all read it:

sheikyermami.com/2008/05/13/serge-trifkovic-can-the-west-be-saved/

While we think that ‘loving our enemy’ means appeasement, not doing anything to stop the onslaught because it is indeed an onslaught of them working to impose their idiology on us, and being politically correct, etc - you might as well ask us to just sit down and die.

I work to not condemn my, or your, children to islam and so does morningstar.

Dear R-not,

I understand you post very well. I do know Morningstar quite well too. I have spoken with him quite at length about my view toward Islam, and he understands my point. My main purpose to calm Morningstar down, is to prevent him to get high blood pressure/being stressed/feel being offensed by reading comments from our muslim counterparts. No matter how we win our argument against Planten, if we must suffer high blood pressure or being emotionally stressed, it means nothing. What’s good for us to win the “battle” but lose the “war”? I want to win both the “war” and the “battle”. It is always a good tactic to make your opponents being emotionally drawn, so they can be easily become careless and off-balance. I am pretty much sure that this is what our counterparties wants. At least, in front of our forum host.

 

[R_not]

Dear R-not,

I understand you post very well. I do know Morningstar quite well too. I have spoken with him quite at length about my view toward Islam, and he understands my point. My main purpose to calm Morningstar down, is to prevent him to get high blood pressure/being stressed/feel being offensed by reading comments from our muslim counterparts. No matter how we win our argument against Planten, if we must suffer high blood pressure or being emotionally stressed, it means nothing. What’s good for us to win the “battle” but lose the “war”? I want to win both the “war” and the “battle”. It is always a good tactic to make your opponents being emotionally drawn, so they can be easily become careless and off-balance. I am pretty much sure that this is what our counterparties wants. At least, in front of our forum host.

good point, thanks for the post.

 

[morning_star777]

dear brother swariffin,u r correct.i should be cool.but brother i was always cool.but see that?when we pushed mr.planten to awkward situation then he ignored our reply.but when i made little mistake then he attack me.as a new christian i am learning about christianity.so i will made mistake about christianity its legal.but ya about islam i am always ready to face mr.planten.thanks brother for ur kind advice.i realy should be cool if i want to win

 

[morning_star777]

dear rinnie,i agree with ur points.but from the very begining islam always was anti christian religion.muhamed preached that jesus is not god.muhamed claimed himself as prophet.&in the view point of christianity its a clear lie.muslims claim that they belive all prophets of bible.i think thats why pope said that we belive in same god.or maybe he said for courtesy.if you will explain wat pope said it wil be easy for me.u can also explain via PM.

 

[morning_star777]

oh rinnie,i forgot to write 1 point in my previous post.if you think that lots of muslim ppls r peacefull then u r wrong.i met thousand muslims.just 2/3 are reall moderate.now look,i met many muslims who show their love&peace to non muslims in front of them.but those muslims discuss confidentially between themselves that how bad the kafir’s are!so hope now you can guess,whom you addressed as different muslims in reality they are not different

 

[morning_star777]

my dear brother swariffine,actualy u&brother inJESUS&mr.angelos are perfect against muslim.&unfortunately some time i become emotional.&u r absolutely correct that i should always cool.&i should face them with cool brain.so again thanks my brother for ur kind advice.i am gratefull to you brother.may our lord jesus,only true lord of the universe bless u&save us.COME MY LORD JESUS FILL ME.INCREASE MY FAITH TOWARDS YOU.

 

[planten]

planten,i am not soft u r correct.but ur islami law made me hard.&i am not spreading rumour.i don’t have any profit if i will spread rumour.i am telling the truth.don’t forget the history of india.muslims divide india not christians or others.muslims spreading terrorism not other ppl.muslims hate non muslim not other ppl.i am still in a muslim family though i have changed.i see everywhere just hate for non muslims.ya muslims hate other ppl.

**There are all sorts of people every where. The Muslims are not the same as they used to be as the christians now are not the real christians as in the time of Jesus. If Muslims are doing something bad then do not blame it on Islam.

Please do not bring politics into it. You have gone against your parents faith. You are perhaps wiser than your parents. No harm from the point of view of real Islam. We do not need people like you.

Islam is completely peaceful religion and I am not attacking the bad un-natural ideas of christianity. I leave you to that.**

 

[eelpis]

Catholics and the Church are bombarded with insults by the wider society, and yet many of us are more interested in criticising Islam and its followers. Many of you are saying how illogical and unbelievable Islam is, yet have nothing to say in answer to the same charges being pressed against you by atheists.

The thing is, many of you seem to be claiming to be devout Catholics. Yeah right. I hope you guys don’t expect those oh so sarcastic atheists that post here to start believing in Catholicism after reading the trash that gets posted here.

Why don’t we unite against secularism? Or is that a stupid idea? We all worship the one God after all. The CCC says so. Or is the CC wrong about that?

The worst enemies of the Church are Satan and his minions.

 

[planten]

dear brother swariffin,u r correct.i should be cool.but brother i was always cool.but see that?when we pushed mr.planten to awkward situation then he ignored our reply.but when i made little mistake then he attack me.as a new christian i am learning about christianity.so i will made mistake about christianity its legal.but ya about islam i am always ready to face mr.planten.thanks brother for ur kind advice.i realy should be cool if i want to win

** I am not attacking any one. I had observed that you were a newcomer to christianity. So no harm. You need to learn and give replies to the questioners. If you give wrong replies then you misguide us about christianity.

I have learnt nuch about religions on the net. Islam is completely peaceful religion and there is none like it in the world. But it is subject to every ones investigation. There is no hardship or compulsion. Every one is responsible for his beliefs.

I believe that Jews and christians are also believers. They believe in their own God in their own way. As long as they are peaceful and do not abuse or malign other religions, they are alright. No harm to any one. Every soul shall reap her own harvest.**

 

[planten]

dear rinnie,i agree with ur points.but from the very begining islam always was anti christian religion.muhamed preached that jesus is not god.muhamed claimed himself as prophet.&in the view point of christianity its a clear lie.muslims claim that they belive all prophets of bible.i think thats why pope said that we belive in same god.or maybe he said for courtesy.if you will explain wat pope said it wil be easy for me.u can also explain via PM.

Please remember that Muhammad did the right thing not to preach that Jesus was God. He did the right thing as per the previous teachings. Niether Moses preached that he was God, nor did Abraham not Jacob nor Jesus. Jesus also did not preach even for one day that he was a god. Di dhe tell any one to believe in him as God?? can you show such a thing from the present day bible?
There is nothing there. So Muhamamd did the right thing as did Abraham and Moses and all prophets. But you are unhappy with Muhammad who got revelation from the God. You can’t beat Muhammad in his excellent teachings. They are all according to nature. Ther eis nothing un-natural in Islam. Please note it.

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by MH84
Catholics and the Church are bombarded with insults by the wider society, and yet many of us are more interested in criticising Islam and its followers. Many of you are saying how illogical and unbelievable Islam is, yet have nothing to say in answer to the same charges being pressed against you by atheists.

The thing is, many of you seem to be claiming to be devout Catholics. Yeah right. I hope you guys don’t expect those oh so sarcastic atheists that post here to start believing in Catholicism after reading the trash that gets posted here.

** MH84 had given good advice. Instead of bashing each other, the church and muslims should look to the atheists who need much advice about the creator. Some of them are total atheists and some others are half aheists (agnosts). I don’t know how a person can be half?

The atheists need to be saved and brought back to God from where they have rebelled. The Muslims and christians do believe in a God, the creator and they believe that he is ONE. So there is a common point. No need to argue with each other and waste time.
It is better that the Muslims and christians should try to post the good points of their own religion and not to disgust/ malign the others religion.

**

 

[swariffin]

my dear brother swariffine,actualy u&brother inJESUS&mr.angelos are perfect against muslim.&unfortunately some time i become emotional.&u r absolutely correct that i should always cool.&i should face them with cool brain.so again thanks my brother for ur kind advice.i am gratefull to you brother.may our lord jesus,only true lord of the universe bless u&save us.COME MY LORD JESUS FILL ME.INCREASE MY FAITH TOWARDS YOU.

Dear brother, I think inJesus and Angelos are better than me. We used to have also Mannyfit and Montalban. They are all good in Christianity and a certain level of Quran. They do have excellent way of expressing their opinions too. In term of Quran, my knowledge is very limited. I must admit that I learn much from them also. BTW, we may have many arguments here in this forum. But, there is nothing in our mind, I believe, that we would like to “attack” anybody personally. What we are doing here, is some sort of comparing our logic against someone else’s. In this way, we learn from each other. I hope that Planten and other Muslims in this forum can get better understanding about Christianity, especially Catholicism.

 

[morning_star777]

planten,i read ur replies.but i wont say anything.but remember,you told that WE DO NOT NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU.very good.i also do not need ur fake religion.and also dnt want to reply ur illogical post.and what we talk about islam its true.ur quran taught violence so wat can we do.ok what ever.i can reply ur post now.but i wont.because in ur last replies you attacked me personaly.so it better that i wont reply.i think this is to much.

 

[morning_star777]

brother swariffin,read those last replies of mr.planten.i am taking it as a personal attack on me.we always discuss here.some time attack faiths or groups.like when muslims claim that jesus isn’t god then we attack their faith.but never attack personaly.but planten did it.so i decided not to reply any post of planten untill he will not understand that he insult me by personal attack.enough is enough.i am not going to tolerate any type of insult.

 

[morning_star777]

actually brother swariffin,planten should prove that my faith is wrong.we prove with the verses of quran that its teach violence.and i am not wiser than my parents.so if he respond my post with some prove then it was ok.but he reply me with his emotion.&some sarcastic words.i didn’t take it as a good comment thats it.when i gave logic he shouldn’t tell that they don’t need ppl like me.after all who wont to stay with them?i know wat islam is!

 

[morning_star777]

last thing brother swariffin,i never misguide planten about christianity.i never reply about christianity.once i just told him that he is also insulting us by claiming jesus just as prophet.but then i explain it wat i meant.but again and again he embarrasing me with this word that i misguide them about christianity.isn’t a personal attack?he knows that i never answer any question about christianity.i just answer&argue about islam,cuz i know islam

 

[R_not]

**There are all sorts of people every where. The Muslims are not the same as they used to be as the christians now are not the real christians as in the time of Jesus. If Muslims are doing something bad then do not blame it on Islam.

Please do not bring politics into it. You have gone against your parents faith. You are perhaps wiser than your parents. No harm from the point of view of real Islam. We do not need people like you.

Islam is completely peaceful religion and I am not attacking the bad un-natural ideas of christianity. I leave you to that.**

hahahaha - how can you not bring politics into the discussion of islam!!?? IT IS A POLITICAL REGIME! They want to rule us (or kill us) and their imperialistic intentions are being done to this day - by even you by trying to tell us that to not bring politics into the discussion.

If we discuss mohammed - a rapist, thief, enslaver, liar, torturer and a murderer - then you all get upset. If we discuss the origins of allah - the pagan moon god of mohammed - you all get upset.

So, because you don’t want to acknowledge any of the above and don’t want to know the truth at least the courtesy to the other readers is that it should be brought out anyway.

mohammed did not know Judaism and Christianity and threw in those Biblical stories - probably ones he heard and obviously remembered very poorly because they are all messed up. So, he covered his bases by saying the Jews and Christians rewrote the story - and no muslim has thought that an illiterate guy hundreds and if not thousands of years later (for the Old Testament stories) probably is the guilty party of screwing up the stories! He said that the Jews and Christians are the ones to go to hades for rewriting the Bible and that if any muslim rewrites the koran - they will go to hades, hence this is why even the so called ‘moderates’ do jihad even if they do not kill. What they do in fact do is lie, support the jihadists (muslim charities), etc. They feign victimhood and other crud to muddy the waters of what they really are all about and what they really do.

islam is a fascism right along with Nazism and Communism. Because it is a ‘either you are with us or you are against us’ idiology. The same as the other two fascisms that I mention. It is called dar al harb and dar al islam. The land of dar al harb (realm of war) is our infidel lands and as such islam says that muslims are at war with us.

That is your so called ‘religion’. this is why it should be reclassified as a political movement that uses religion as a front to gain a foothold into countries and until they build up their numbers they will appear peaceful to infidels and when their numbers are sufficient they start their crud (well, they start before that but they make it out to be civil crimes against the infidel and the host country’s law enforcement takes it as such and with the whining and threats from the muslims - the delay in recognizing the war is usually too late).

 

[R_not]

actually brother swariffin,planten should prove that my faith is wrong.we prove with the verses of quran that its teach violence.and i am not wiser than my parents.so if he respond my post with some prove then it was ok.but he reply me with his emotion.&some sarcastic words.i didn’t take it as a good comment thats it.when i gave logic he shouldn’t tell that they don’t need ppl like me.after all who wont to stay with them?i know wat islam is!

We not only prove time and again islam’s own teachings are violence against us - their own behavior indicates it. So called ‘moderate’ muslims are rioting in many countries over a guy who shot holes in a koran, but NOT ONE has rioted over stopping the jihadists killing innocent Israeli women and children (there goes those different definitions - since muslims think that innocent does not apply to infidels!), the killing of our troops that freed muslims from Hussein’s regime, etc. They have killed untold numbers of priests and nuns even in this century and one old nun because of a cartoon. They have killed two priests in the UK and who knows how many others that we just don’t hear about. No riots - not a peep out of so called ‘moderates’.

But, when they are cornered - one with no power might apologize but I wonder how sincere that apology is since no one with any power apologizes over their murder. And this is only the tip of the iceberg as to how many infidels they kill - in those countries that they have migrated to they kill the people from those lands if they are not muslims. They renewed a jihad against India late last year - gee, no riot over that - and instead all we hear about is the kidnappings, rape, torture and murder of Hindus. But, we don’t hear it from the mainstream media - we hear about it from other news sources - that muslims intimidate and try to bully by their lawsuits to try to censor them.

islam = violence and violence = islam. They are one and the same. ‘moderate’ muslims are more concerned with islam’s image (a false image) and they do anything to try to change it.