Anyones faith get shaken by terrible evils like the Connecticut shootings?

[itullian]

Yes and no. Yes, because humans choose sin over love. No, because humans are free to choose love instead.

No. To presume He should, suggests that He didn’t get it right from the beginning, which cannot be, as God cannot err.

Only if we give up on Hope.

he didnt get it right from the beginning.
remember the ark?

 

[R_C]

A natural temptation. That’s why Satan does what he does. Trust in God, no matter what. Do not let Satan win God’s children by these works of evil.

 

[mymamamary]

this

We won’t let HIM step in. HE is limited to our free will

 

[centurionguard]

but does there need to be so much horror and suffering.

cant he tweak the system or something.

idk, its so disheartening.

The beginning to understanding great tragedy and immense human suffering is trying to understand Christ’s suffering on the Cross. Most often when we ourselves are caught up in suffering ourselves great and small we are trapped within ourselves seeing only the forest for the trees. I believe in Faith with regards to everything that happens to us and others in life no matter how horrendous and terrible there is a reason in God’s Wisdom that surpasses all human intellect. Does it make what happens to others or ourselves unjustly morally right even when we ourselves are not to blame? Of course not. God see’s past all this in his Wisdom.

We must instead take to heart the comfort of Gods Word alone.

Ecclesiasticus Chapter 2 Verses 1-32 drbo.org/chapter/26002.htm

** [1] Son, when thou comest to the service of God, stand in justice and in fear, and prepare thy soul for temptation. [2] Humble thy heart, and endure: incline thy ear, and receive the words of understanding: and make not haste in the time of clouds. [3] Wait on God with patience: join thyself to God, and endure, that thy life may be increased in the latter end. [4] Take all that shall be brought upon thee: and in thy sorrow endure, and in thy humiliation keep patience. [5] For gold and silver are tried in the fire, but acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

[6] Believe God, and he will recover thee: and direct thy way, and trust in him. Keep his fear, and grow old therein. [7] Ye that fear the Lord, wait for his mercy: and go not aside from him, lest ye fall. [8] Ye that fear the Lord, believe him: and your reward shall not be made void. [9] Ye that fear the Lord, hope in him: and mercy shall come to you for your delight. [10] Ye that fear the Lord, love him, and your hearts shall be enlightened.

[11] My children behold the generations of men: and know ye that no one hath hoped in the Lord, and hath been confounded. [12] For who hath continued in his commandment, and hath been forsaken? or who hath called upon him, and he despised him? [13] For God is compassionate and merciful, and will forgive sins in the day of tribulation: and he is a protector to all that seek him in truth. [14] Woe to them that are of a double heart and to wicked lips, and to the hands that do evil, and to the sinner that goeth on the earth two ways. [15] Woe to them that are fainthearted, who believe not God: and therefore they shall not be protected by him.

[16] Woe to them that have lost patience, and that have forsaken the right ways, and have gone aside into crooked ways. [17] And what will they do, when the Lord shall begin to examine? [18] They that fear the Lord, will not be incredulous to his word: and they that love him, will keep his way. [19] They that fear the Lord, will seek after the things that are well pleasing to him: and they that love him, shall be filled with his law. [20] They that fear the Lord, will prepare their hearts, and in his sight will sanctify their souls.

[21] They that fear the Lord, keep his Commandments, and will have patience even until his visitation, [22] Saying: If we do not penance, we shall fall into the hands of the Lord, and not into the hands of men. [23] For according to his greatness, so also is his mercy with him. **

 

[salve_maria_1]

No, my faith isn’t shaken. This earth is but a vale of tears.

 

[Allegra]

DId you hear the interveiw with the priest who said most of the school familes were his parishioners? So I guess you’re saying that these kids died because their parents couldn’t afford to send them to Catholic school. Or maybe they died because these kindergartners didn’t pray hard enough at church or at home to make up for all the praying they missed at school.

Please refrain from further denegrating these kids or their families with your insights. Your prayers would be appeciate.

I don’t think that’s what the poster is saying. I think he’s using that quote as an example of the popular opinion that we should expect God to always have our backs even when we ignore Him or purposefully shut Him out of our lives.
The logic is right, though I can’t agree with the contention that God is not allowed in schools. God is anywhere His children invoke His name. Schools are full of very faithful people, including children and teachers. Some people have convinced themselves that because the school day doesn’t begin with the Lord’s Prayer, the school is turning out nothing but heathens. That simply isn’t the case.
It isn’t the place for a public school to instruct a child in their religion. However, it equally isn’t the place of a public school (nor the desire of a vast majority of teachers and administrators) to squelch the faith out of students’ hearts. Faith is taught at home and then sent out into the world, regardless what school your child attends. Those who contend otherwise are also conveniently ignoring the constant flow of hypocrites and faithless people that the parochial school systems generate as well. They are often even more damaging to the Church than those who were never taught to believe in the first place!

 

[itullian]

We won’t let HIM step in. HE is limited to our free will

HE is limited?
no, he chooses to not step in. right?

 

[Gorgias]

but if you’re a loving parent and one of your children starts hurting the other, at some point dont you step in and stop it?

Only at the point where they’re going to do serious damage to themselves, right?

if you didnt i dont think you really love them.

Well, guess what? We were at that point – and 2000 years ago, God stepped in and stopped it: now, he’s fixed it. Because he “really loves them”.

Can we mess up? Yep. Can we hurt ourselves and each other? Yep. But now, we have the opportunity that, no matter what we do here on earth, we can’t lose what’s most important – eternal life.

You and I are seeing the same thing, but from opposite perspectives. You’re seeing the immensity of the suffering here on earth; I’m extrapolating the immensity of the victory in heaven. After all, it’s so big that it dwarfs what we’re experiencing here, to the point that God doesn’t step in and say, “yeah, what’s happening on earth is far worse than what I have planned for you, so I’ve got to take away your free will for the benefit of your own selves. sorry.”

 

[JerryZ]

DId you hear the interveiw with the priest who said most of the school familes were his parishioners? So I guess you’re saying that these kids died because their parents couldn’t afford to send them to Catholic school. Or maybe they died because these kindergartners didn’t pray hard enough at church or at home to make up for all the praying they missed at school.

Please refrain from further denegrating these kids or their families with your insights. Your prayers would be appeciate.

I think you must have misunderdtood his statement. The type of tragedy altough not really new (columbine, etc.) follows a pattern of increasing violence which happens to coincide with the gradual removal of God from the public life.
50, heck even 30 years ago events like this were unheard of!
It has nothing to do with the parents of the victims of this tragedy or catholic schools.
But rather a trend of society in general, which by the way it seems is not limited to just 1 country (the US) either but is becoming widespread across the globe.

 

[fred_conty]

DId you hear the interveiw with the priest who said most of the school familes were his parishioners? So I guess you’re saying that these kids died because their parents couldn’t afford to send them to Catholic school. Or maybe they died because these kindergartners didn’t pray hard enough at church or at home to make up for all the praying they missed at school.

Please refrain from further denegrating these kids or their families with your insights. Your prayers would be appeciate.

Well thank you for your thoughts. I guess I wasn’t clear enough in what I meant. And if I were thinking what you were thinking I may very well had addressed what you said to myself. So I apologize for not being clear.

When I said we prayed in school, I was looking at it from the point of view of the young man who did it. If he had had this in his school, would this incident have happened? But I did not make this clear.

Fred

 

[centurionguard]

HE is limited?
no, he chooses to not step in. right?

Its not a matter of whether saying God chooses to stepin or thinking in a human way that God ignores us. That’s not true.

Prophecy Of Isaias (Isaiah) Chapter 55 Verses 1-13 drbo.org/chapter/27055.htm

[1] All you that thirst, come to the waters: and you that have no money make haste, buy, and eat: come ye, buy wine and milk without money, and without any price. [2] Why do you spend money for that which is not breed, and your labour for that which doth not satisfy you? Hearken diligently to me, and eat that which is good, and your soul shall be delighted in fatness. [3] Incline your ear and come to me: hear and your soul shall live, and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the faithful mercies of David. [4] Behold I have given him for a witness to the people, for a leader and a master to the Gentiles. [5] Behold thou shalt call a nation, which thou knewest not: and the nations that knew not thee shall run to thee, because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel, for he hath glorified thee.

[6] Seek ye the Lord, while he may be found: call upon him, while he is near. [7] Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unjust man his thoughts, and let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God: for he is bountiful to forgive. ** [8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord. [9] For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts. [10] And as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and return no more thither, but soak the earth, and water it, and make it to spring, and give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

[11] So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.** [12] For you shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall sing praise before you, and all the trees of the country shall clap their hands. [13] Instead of the shrub, shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the nettle, shall come up the myrtle tree: and the Lord shall be named for an everlasting sign, that shall not be taken away.

 

[itullian]

i guess im thinking that maybe a good God could have designed a system with less horror and suffering in it.

i just cant understand the suffering of the innocent, i just cant.

 

[Jeanne_S]

It does not shake my faith. At all.
It convinces me that evil exists in the world and the world needs Christ even more.

As shocking as the news was yesterday of young children being slaughtered, there are more children killed horribly by abortion in the States on a daily basis. There are no news conferences with the President shedding a tear over them. The President saying that these kids will never grow up, learn to ride bikes, graduate, get married and have their own families. This is the reality, that mothers are bringing in their own babies to be killed. That my friend, is shocking. More than some crazy person who got a hold of their parent’s guns.

I can’t imagine removing the 10 Commandments from classrooms because it offends someone. Those children that were killed. I imagine they wish the Commandments went up in every classroom and public place throughout the country in their honor. Will we see that happen? Not likely.

Well said!

 

[itullian]

adding more instances of evil on the pile doesnt change the scenario.

couldnt a good God come up with a better system?

these evils just jolt us back to the reality, i think.

 

[mab23]

i really have a hard time with a God that allows such horrible evil and suffering like that.

i know, free will and all, but , well, idk.

it does make me question things.

I have a hard time blaming God

the more important question is how to we as Christians and a society allow it, why are we not preventing this whether its bringing people to Jesus or identifying potential problems and dealing with them before heinous acts of violence happen

innocent people die every day - not to make light of CT shooting in anyway but this is not God’s fault this is humanities fault and we need to start doing something about it - we need to rise to a higher good and Kill this madness with kindess and love

IMHO

 

[centurionguard]

i guess im thinking that maybe a good God could have designed a system with less horror and suffering in it.

i just cant understand the suffering of the innocent, i just cant.

Jesus was innocent when He died. Begin there.

 

[Gorgias]

i guess im thinking that maybe a good God could have designed a system with less horror and suffering in it.

i just cant understand the suffering of the innocent, i just cant.

For a second, put yourself in the perspective of a little child (who’s in a good domestic situation). Typically, the worst things facing him are cuts and scrapes, falling off a bike as he learns to ride it, and being forced to eat icky vegetables. From his perspective, he’d think “couldn’t Mom and Dad have designed the system with less suffering in it?”

On the other hand, look at it from his parents’ perspective. The cuts and scrapes are part of growing up, falling off a bike is a necessary part of learning to ride it, and veggies are good for you (even if you don’t like the way they taste). To his parents’ perspective, the things that look like ‘horror and suffering’ to the child aren’t really quite as mind-bogglingly significant at all.

We’re the child; God’s the parent. God’s got it figured out, and “all things work for good for those who love God” (Romans 8:28)…

 

[itullian]

sorry , forgot the quote.

 

[itullian]

Jesus was innocent when He died. Begin there.

the suffering of the innocent started way before Jesus, no?

 

[skigirl1689]

It does not shake my faith. At all.
It convinces me that evil exists in the world and the world needs Christ even more.

As shocking as the news was yesterday of young children being slaughtered, there are more children killed horribly by abortion in the States on a daily basis. There are no news conferences with the President shedding a tear over them. The President saying that these kids will never grow up, learn to ride bikes, graduate, get married and have their own families. This is the reality, that mothers are bringing in their own babies to be killed. That my friend, is shocking. More than some crazy person who got a hold of their parent’s guns.

I can’t imagine removing the 10 Commandments from classrooms because it offends someone. Those children that were killed. I imagine they wish the Commandments went up in every classroom and public place throughout the country in their honor. Will we see that happen? Not likely.

Yes, you put how I feel into words. Unfortunately my atheist friends are mocking us Christians who believe in God. I tried explaining free will but it fell on deaf ears. Yes, call me a fool but I’ll be a fool for Christ till I die by His grace!

Also, as a society we no longer value life which is a huge issue.