Apparitions - Deceptions of Satan?

[DeFide]

myfavoritmartin:

Let me reitirate, I do not any longer confuse worship and praying with Mary, so let me put it this way. Christ may have a problem with kissing the toe of St.Peter or bowing to a statue of Mary… we truly do not know what his response is. Whether it pleases or angers him, if it does anger him and satan knows that and also satan knows how us humans defend the right to show admiration to Mary and the Saints. Is not this the perfect opportunity to deceive?

Come on now, speak for yourself. You may not have any idea of what is pleasing to God because you do not recognize a Church with divinely-established teaching authority.

Catholics, on the other hand, do recognize such a Church, and so we can know what is and is not sinful.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

DeFide:

Come on now, speak for yourself. You may not have any idea of what is pleasing to God because you do not recognize a Church with divinely-established teaching authority.

Catholics, on the other hand, do recognize such a Church, and so we can know what is and is not sinful.

So your church knows for a fact kissing the toe on the statue of St. Peter is certainly without a doubt not angering our Father? even though according to Catholics who made the bible. Peter himself tells people not to bow to him because he’s a person. Though the church is okay with it, so our Father will be also? Why can’t you guys just answer?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

The question is wouldn’t this be the ultimate way to deceive?

 

[jim1130]

myfavoritmartin:

So your church knows for a fact kissing the toe on the statue of St. Peter is certainly without a doubt not angering our Father? even though according to Catholics who made the bible. Peter himself tells people not to bow to him because he’s a person. Though the church is okay with it, so our Father will be also? Why can’t you guys just answer?

Peace.

I see it as a sign of respect and in my heart I know I am respecting, not idolizing, St. Peter and Mary. St. Peter, modest and humble, was chosen by Christ as the Rock (Kepha) and I would kneel before him as a sign of respect for the authority bestowed upon him by Christ. With Mary, too, the Mother of God, I would kneel out of respect and reverence. My belief is that God would appreciate the honor bestowed upon Mar, St. Peter, and all the Saints, understanding what is in our heart is not worship, but veneration.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[jim1130]

myfavoritmartin:

The question is wouldn’t this be the ultimate way to deceive?

The ultimate way for the Evil One to deceive is to lead us away from God. Venerating Mary, St. Peter, the Saints, the Archangels and Angels, etc. leads us to God and closer to God.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

myfavoritmartin:

So your church knows for a fact kissing the toe on the statue of St. Peter is certainly without a doubt not angering our Father?

 

[LilyM]

myfavoritmartin:

So your church knows for a fact kissing the toe on the statue of St. Peter is certainly without a doubt not angering our Father? even though according to Catholics who made the bible. Peter himself tells people not to bow to him because he’s a person. Though the church is okay with it, so our Father will be also? Why can’t you guys just answer?

And you know for a fact that FAILING to honour those Jesus honoured during his life (contravening his commands to ‘love one another as I have loved you’ and ‘honour thy father AND MOTHER’) isn’t angering God? It certainly would anger me if anyone disrespected or ignored my friends and my mother while claiming to honour me.

 

[DeFide]

myfavoritmartin:

So your church knows for a fact kissing the toe on the statue of St. Peter is certainly without a doubt not angering our Father? even though according to Catholics who made the bible. Peter himself tells people not to bow to him because he’s a person. Though the church is okay with it, so our Father will be also? Why can’t you guys just answer?

Veneration of the Saints is permissible and profitable. We know that St. Peter is not God. We know that the admiration of God’s accomplishments in His Saints does not allow us to neglect the worship of God.

Matthew 16:18ff
*And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. *I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

You poor soul, Martin, I’ll let you in on something: You cannot fall into sin accidentally. Sin must be willed.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

LilyM:

And you know for a fact that FAILING to honour those Jesus honoured during his life (contravening his commands to ‘love one another as I have loved you’ and ‘honour thy father AND MOTHER’) isn’t angering God? It certainly would anger me if anyone disrespected or ignored my friends and my mother while claiming to honour me.

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

So your church does know for a fact?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

DeFide:

You poor soul, Martin, I’ll let you in on something: You cannot fall into sin accidentally. Sin must be willed.

Please waste no time feeling pity for me! Jesus loves me this I know!
There are too many else out there to save to have pity for me. I am confident in my salvation Christ’s atonement was for all believers.

 

[DeFide]

myfavoritmartin:

Please waste no time feeling pity for me! Jesus loves me this I know!
There are too many else out there to save to have pity for me. I am confident in my salvation Christ’s atonement was for all believers.

I just don’t want you to dispair, thinking that you have no way of knowing what is pleasing or displeasing to God.

 

[NotWorthy]

myfavoritmartin:

Or we could look at it from this standpoint, the protestant evangelist faith is so strong that the devil wouldn’t dare try to deceive. Also, with the idolic question mark surrounding saints and Mary(which true catholics defend to death) wouldn’t that be the perfect open window for him.

So… the Protestant Evangelist’s Faith is stronger than Jesus? Evidently, according to your reasoning it is, since the devil felt the need to try to deceive Jesus.

Notworthy

 

[valient_Lucy]

myfavoritmartin:

Let me reitirate, I do not any longer confuse worship and praying with Mary, so let me put it this way. Christ may have a problem with kissing the toe of St.Peter or bowing to a statue of Mary… we truly do not know what his response is. Whether it pleases or angers him, if it does anger him and satan knows that and also satan knows how us humans defend the right to show admiration to Mary and the Saints. Is not this the perfect opportunity to deceive?

Possibly. But there are many opportunities to decieve in this world. Satan often uses people’s sexual desires to lead them into sin. Perhaps we should drug ourselves so we eliminate our sexual desire completly. After all, we know that Christ has a problem with sexual immorality. Why not simply get rid of the temptation?

 

[NotWorthy]

myfavoritmartin:

So your church knows for a fact kissing the toe on the statue of St. Peter is certainly without a doubt not angering our Father?

YES! Why? Because we trust the teaching authority of our Holy Church! That was a lesson taught all throughout the Old Testament - To Trust in God. That’s what Catholics do when they follow the teaching authority of the Magisterium. I’m sorry you guys don’t get the fullness of that doctrine.

myfavoritmartin:

…even though according to Catholics who made the bible. Peter himself tells people not to bow to him because he’s a person. Though the church is okay with it, so our Father will be also? Why can’t you guys just answer?

See above.

Notworthy

 

[montanaman]

myfavoritmartin:

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

So your church does know for a fact?

That’s your problem–you keep telling us what we believe. We love Mary more than Christ? That’s news to me.

How about this–we’ll quit assuming you worship the Bible when you quit telling us what we really believe about Mary. Deal?

 

[JaneFrances]

Wildgraywolf:

lol… The um… flip side of that could be; why would God even bother since you wouldn’t believe anything He said unless it was already written down in the bible.

It might even go a little something like this:

27"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29"Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30" ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ " (Luke 16)

Obviously, some people would not believe no matter WHO appeared to them!

 

[LilyM]

montanaman:

That’s your problem–you keep telling us what we believe. We love Mary more than Christ? That’s news to me.

How about this–we’ll quit assuming you worship the Bible when you quit telling us what we really believe about Mary. Deal?

I am sick of Protestants ‘telling’ me that I love Mary or the Saints more than Christ when I pay respect to them, or making Jesus out to be a five-year-old schoolboy who throws tantrums if he doesn’t get all our attention. Jealousy is an emotion unworthy to be ascribed to him.

I love my mother and my friends far less then Jesus loved his mother and friends, and yet I am not jealous of them. I consider any honour done to them just as I would honour done to myself. How can I possibly think that Jesus, who was born in a stable and who said ‘the greatest among you must be the least’ would be more prideful and less humble than I am?

 

[Eden]

Writer:

Please read the context of my posts with more care. I never said that we should use questionable apparitions to dis-prove other apparitions. I did, however, call for some critical and God-centered thinking.

I’m sorry. You’re correct. I should have read more closely. You have a valid point and I thank you. Mea culpa.

 

[Eden]

myfavoritmartin:

Or we could look at it from this standpoint, the protestant evangelist faith is so strong that the devil wouldn’t dare try to deceive. Also, with the idolic question mark surrounding saints and Mary(which true catholics defend to death) wouldn’t that be the perfect open window for him.

You don’t think satan would work hardest to deceive those who belonged to the true Church? It seems odd to me that if Protestantism is true, he wouldn’t at least* try* to deceive you. The lack of visions or apparitions in Protestantism, demonic or heavenly is something to consider.