Archbishop links priestly celibacy and Catholic sex abuse scandals

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Cardinal Schonborn argues that priestly celibacy has a lot to do with paedophilia.

guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/11/priestly-celibacy-catholic-sex-scandals
Cardinal Schonborn is an excellent example of what is wrong with the church today.

Here he is (a cardinal no less) and he doesn’t have a theological clue as to what’s going on.

Anyone of sound reasoning already knows that it is just plain SIN that is causing the abuse crisis.

Their marital status has absolutely nothing at all to do with it. Take a look at this list of Protestant abusers, of which most surely all of them are married:
reformation.com/

Wake up cardinal …
 
In our modern culture, celibacy is a very difficult thing to achieve. Origen castrated himself I just discovered last Saturday at a faith formation program we’re engaged in working towards the permanent diacoante. I saw the seminary form the inside out. Trust me on this, that particular seminary had several disturbing people allowed to enter the doors that did not conceal their agendas or feelings towards either males or females. I saw much sin and was scandalize because of my being so naive. I was so naive and in the eyes of the predatory instinct of “recruiting” homosexual tendency people that my spiritual director made a pass at me after inviting me on a day of sailing right before finals. He was also from my diocese and a former philosophy professor that I assumed was mentoring me until he did something unthinkable while I was sleeping.

This “homosexual” thing seemed to be a fad in our culture at the time and deeply corrupted the seminaries across the board. I do believe that allowing already married men to become priests would be fine, as long as the correct discernment was undertaken for this specific vocation calling. Let me elaborate below in brief in my next post regarding this subject…
 
Cardinal Schonborn is an excellent example of what is wrong with the church today.

Here he is (a cardinal no less) and he doesn’t have a theological clue as to what’s going on.

Anyone of sound reasoning already knows that it is just plain SIN that is causing the abuse crisis.

Their marital status has absolutely nothing at all to do with it. Take a look at this list of Protestant abusers, of which most surely all of them are married:
reformation.com/

Wake up cardinal …
I will presume you have not read through the thread.

Cardinal Schonborn is actually what may be right with the Church today. He is highly intelligent, and sadly with people who are intelligent, when they speak in nuanced terms, the reporters - who too often do not even have the word “nuanced” in their dictionary - get it wrong, write what they want filtered through their own prejudices, and leave the speaker (here, the Cardinal) wondering why what he said was not reported, instead of being spun off in an entirely different direction.

I would also presume that you do not read the Catholic press; for example, Our Sunday Visitor, which had an article about the Cardinal’s statement, clarifying that the Cardinal did not mean what the original reporter wrote.

In a trial in civil or criminal court, it is called “hearsay” when someone testifies to someone else’s out-of-court statement. It is popularly stated as “he said she said” and such testimony is not allowed in court because of its inherent unreliability. Your reaction is a prime example of why such testimony is not allowed. The Cardinal made a statement. The reporter twisted the statement to imply something else. You reacted to the reporter’s twisiting of the statement and now have condemned a Cardinal for what he did not say.

I can understand how this happens. However, there is a slight issue about charity, let alone publicly condemning one of the hierarchy without sufficient evidence. That is called character assassination, to put it directly.

I am sure you did not mean such; but we could all learn from this episode. Just because an article appears in the public press saying “so and so {bishop, pope, Cardinal…) said” does not mean that we can take the statement as factually correct. It is a major lack of thinking on the part of anyone to get on the internet and start broadcasting “so and so (bishop, cardinal…) is not a faithful follower of the Magisterium (or the equivalent)”. The person so doing is not using reasonable intelligence to determine what the truth is but is passing off the statement as truth; others who also do not use reasonable intelligence follow suit, and all of a sudden we have anyone and everyone who reads these posts judging the character, fidelity to the Church, and intelligence of priests, bishops and Cardinals based over some untruthful statment that now becomes “true” simply because of repeating it.

It is called gossip, and the damage we do when we make such statements can have untold damage even though we never intended such. It is questionable enough when people in one diocese start criticizing the actions - in truth - of a bishop in another diocese.

It is beyond questionable when we attack anyone over a statement they simply did not make, or one that was spun to imply what they had no intention of implying.
 
One does not have to make children fearful of strangers to acquaint them with the fact that they have a right to personal integrity and that if they are not comfortable with anyone touching them, they should come to their parent and let them know immediately.

And I would support the poster to the extent that one has more than a casual duty to protect children from sexual abuse. Leaving them with no one is an over-reaction; paying no attention to the fact that sexual perversion is a reality is at best and kindest an under-reaction. One does not have to be hyper to be alert. Ond does not have to be a fear monger to train children that they have a right to not be molested and that there are bad people win the world.

There has been far, far more than one story of a boy coming home complaining of the priest and what he did, and getting the tar beat out of him at home. And the same goes for kids coming home and telling what “Uncle Joe” did and getting the same. Parents do not always react as they should; sadly, sometimes the parent themself had been the victim of abuse.

Telling children of harm that can come their way is not going to leave them scared of everyone any more than telling them that they can get run over in the street makes them scared to cross in the cross walk. There is such an issue as balance. It needs to be handled appropriately; if a parent doesn’t know how, then a short chat with a good pediatrician is a good place to start. There is absolutely no excuse for not having the conversation.
And how is refusing to leave your children with ANY adult besides Mom and Dad going to accomplish that? I’m all for teaching kids about “stranger danger” and “good touch/bad touch” (as well as charging parents w/ abuse and neglect if they “beat the tar out of” their kid for reporting abuse!), but the pp was going to the extreme, and I was just pointing that out! Everyone now seems to think I’m all for just dropping the kids off with guy who just moved in across the street or at the local haflway house! Geez! 🤷

In Christ,

Ellen
 
And how is refusing to leave your children with ANY adult besides Mom and Dad going to accomplish that? I’m all for teaching kids about “stranger danger” and “good touch/bad touch” (as well as charging parents w/ abuse and neglect if they “beat the tar out of” their kid for reporting abuse!), but the pp was going to the extreme, and I was just pointing that out! Everyone now seems to think I’m all for just dropping the kids off with guy who just moved in across the street or at the local haflway house! Geez! 🤷

In Christ,

Ellen
I was kicked out of the seminary in essence for reporting abuse.
 
And how is refusing to leave your children with ANY adult besides Mom and Dad going to accomplish that? I’m all for teaching kids about “stranger danger” and “good touch/bad touch” (as well as charging parents w/ abuse and neglect if they “beat the tar out of” their kid for reporting abuse!), but the pp was going to the extreme, and I was just pointing that out! Everyone now seems to think I’m all for just dropping the kids off with guy who just moved in across the street or at the local haflway house! Geez! 🤷

In Christ,

Ellen
I think a careful reading of what I have said is that there is a place between extremes; you may want to re-read what I wrote. I have raised twin daughters and I made it a point to teach them what they needed to know. I even managed to do it without raising daughters who feared everyone else. I am well aware that this is a touchy discussion and has a tendency to make people defensive; that is not my intention. However, after having done 12 years of child sexual abuse cases as an attorney, I am a firm believer that parents need to pay attention, train children properly, and use common sense.

If you were offended by my comments, that was not my intention. I do not believe that sexual abusers are lurking on every street corner and behind every front door. I do know for a fact that children have been abused, and much of that could have been avoided by the response of one responsible parent (if not both). Some of my comments are meant for other readers, so read them with that in mind. Sometimes it seems as if posters are in a private conversation between two or three of them, but the conversation may be monitored by a number of others who might benefit from comments made.
 
I think a careful reading of what I have said is that there is a place between extremes; you may want to re-read what I wrote. I have raised twin daughters and I made it a point to teach them what they needed to know. I even managed to do it without raising daughters who feared everyone else. I am well aware that this is a touchy discussion and has a tendency to make people defensive; that is not my intention. However, after having done 12 years of child sexual abuse cases as an attorney, I am a firm believer that parents need to pay attention, train children properly, and use common sense.

If you were offended by my comments, that was not my intention. I do not believe that sexual abusers are lurking on every street corner and behind every front door. I do know for a fact that children have been abused, and much of that could have been avoided by the response of one responsible parent (if not both). Some of my comments are meant for other readers, so read them with that in mind. Sometimes it seems as if posters are in a private conversation between two or three of them, but the conversation may be monitored by a number of others who might benefit from comments made.
👍

Some lady keeps PMing over comments I made about “princess” mentality love. It’s disturbing how people don’t get that some of us are speaking to a wide audience rather than just them. I believe the correct saying is “good luck with that” or “how’s that working for ya”? all with a sarcastic tone. In fact it’s being sarcastic that is her point.🤷 oh well
 
In our modern culture, celibacy is a very difficult thing to achieve. Origen castrated himself I just discovered last Saturday at a faith formation program we’re engaged in working towards the permanent diacoante. I saw the seminary form the inside out. Trust me on this, that particular seminary had several disturbing people allowed to enter the doors that did not conceal their agendas or feelings towards either males or females. I saw much sin and was scandalize because of my being so naive. I was so naive and in the eyes of the predatory instinct of “recruiting” homosexual tendency people that my spiritual director made a pass at me after inviting me on a day of sailing right before finals. He was also from my diocese and a former philosophy professor that I assumed was mentoring me until he did something unthinkable while I was sleeping.

This “homosexual” thing seemed to be a fad in our culture at the time and deeply corrupted the seminaries across the board. I do believe that allowing already married men to become priests would be fine, as long as the correct discernment was undertaken for this specific vocation calling. Let me elaborate below in brief in my next post regarding this subject…
I was kicked out of the seminary in essence for reporting abuse.
I suggest that people consider more seriously doing away with celibacy completely and requiring all priests to marry.
On a related issue, “PUSH FOR CELIBACY IMPLIES GAY GUILT”
this is what Bill Donohue has to say:
catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1807
 
I suggest that people consider more seriously doing away with celibacy completely and requiring all priests to marry. This is what Bill Donohue has to say:
catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1807
Bill Donahue is not the authority of the Church. He is no more an authority than he is a pastor.

And to “require ALL” priest to marry breaks with tradition and TRADITION. Where would bishops come from. What would happen to the religious. Your grossly misplaced statements marginalize our wonderful religious brothers and sister that dedicate their lives to serving the Church. You need to re read history and the tradition of the practice of celibacy in the Church. Sorry, but at one time I thought much like you. I’ll make my statements on a different thread.
 
👍

Some lady keeps PMing over comments I made about “princess” mentality love. It’s disturbing how people don’t get that some of us are speaking to a wide audience rather than just them. I believe the correct saying is “good luck with that” or “how’s that working for ya”? all with a sarcastic tone. In fact it’s being sarcastic that is her point.🤷 oh well
It is a topic that makes many people uncomfortable, to put it mildly; and too often they cannot articulate why it makes them so uncomfortable, a point that should be thoroughly researched, as it is children who are at risk, not the uncomfortable adults.
 
Bill Donahue is not the authority of the Church. He is no more an authority than he is a pastor.

And to “require ALL” priest to marry breaks with tradition and TRADITION. Where would bishops come from. What would happen to the religious. Your grossly misplaced statements marginalize our wonderful religious brothers and sister that dedicate their lives to serving the Church. You need to re read history and the tradition of the practice of celibacy in the Church. Sorry, but at one time I thought much like you. I’ll make my statements on a different thread.
Bill Donohue is saying the exact opposite of what the poster you are replying to is implying.He is not an authority of the Church but he is an authority on the Church.Thank God for Bill Donague and the Catholic League.He is a burr under the saddles of the more milquetost Bishops.These liberal wishy washy shepards better be careful or their flock will be coming after them eith pitchforks and torches at least in the metaphorical sense.The Church is NOT a democracy but it is incumbant upon them to Lead OR get out of the way(apologies to Ted Turner)
 
And how is refusing to leave your children with ANY adult besides Mom and Dad going to accomplish that? I’m all for teaching kids about “stranger danger” and “good touch/bad touch” (as well as charging parents w/ abuse and neglect if they “beat the tar out of” their kid for reporting abuse!), but the pp was going to the extreme, and I was just pointing that out! Everyone now seems to think I’m all for just dropping the kids off with guy who just moved in across the street or at the local haflway house! Geez! 🤷

In Christ,

Ellen
Ellen, I should not have used “any”. I’m not advocating putting kids in a bubble. Guess I was trying to say that just because a person is an adult or has some status that does not mean he/she is safe around your child. I’ve been around parents who are just too busy to know their kids’ friends or meet the parents of those kids. By chaperoning I meant parents should extend themselves to go on class trips, know the parents where parties are being held, etc. Our son had a newpaper route. I went with him watching. I wasn’t comfortable realizing he was going to apartment buildings to deliver and collect fees. Anything could have happened. Maybe if I hadn’t gone with him to actually see his area, I wouldn’t have thought anything of a kid delivering papers. Know what I mean?
 
I have long held an opinion in which I become more confirmed; I believe that the celibate priesthood has provided a convenient hiding place for those with disordered sexual tendencies. Until recently, there has hardly been a more respected “profession”, and those who likely would not have been drawn to marriage anyway would surely have seen it as a viable option. There are also those perverted individuals, I am certain, who saw the opportunity for proximity to young children, altar boys and adolescents as an irresistible draw.
I agree. The male-only priesthood has provided an unexcelled hiding place for unfit men who have no interest in a male-female relationship. The problem is not priestly celibacy - the problem is the admission into the priesthood of men with disordered sexual tendencies, all of which has been exacerbated by the failure of the hierarchy to expel such persons as soon as their tendencies became known. Over time some unfit persons rose to positions of authority (just because a man has disordered tendencies doesn’t mean he isn’t smart) and the result is the scandal we have been seeing for the past ten years or so.
 
The Church has been a perfect hideout for these poor perverted souls.Just as Big Brothers,Scouting,coaching have all provided refuge to these men who suffer from an immature and perverted sexuality that is based on an actraction to young men and adolescent boys and these positions grant access to innocent victims from a position of trust,and respect.As someone who was an innocent altar boy in the very late fifties and sixties I would not have believed ANYONE if they accused a priest of ANY impropriety.
 
Ellen, I should not have used “any”. I’m not advocating putting kids in a bubble. Guess I was trying to say that just because a person is an adult or has some status that does not mean he/she is safe around your child. I’ve been around parents who are just too busy to know their kids’ friends or meet the parents of those kids. By chaperoning I meant parents should extend themselves to go on class trips, know the parents where parties are being held, etc. Our son had a newpaper route. I went with him watching. I wasn’t comfortable realizing he was going to apartment buildings to deliver and collect fees. Anything could have happened. Maybe if I hadn’t gone with him to actually see his area, I wouldn’t have thought anything of a kid delivering papers. Know what I mean?
And that to me is all just common sense, but I know it’s lacking in our society (I was a probation and parole officer for 8 years, and supervised sex offenders as well as those classified as “dangerous felons”-murderers, serious assaults, etc.). It’s just surprising when it’s lacking in those one would otherwise think of as “good Catholic parents”.

In Christ,

Ellen
 
Bill Donahue is not the authority of the Church. He is no more an authority than he is a pastor.

And to “require ALL” priest to marry breaks with tradition and TRADITION. Where would bishops come from. What would happen to the religious. Your grossly misplaced statements marginalize our wonderful religious brothers and sister that dedicate their lives to serving the Church. You need to re read history and the tradition of the practice of celibacy in the Church. Sorry, but at one time I thought much like you. I’ll make my statements on a different thread.
I don;t see how it breaks with tradition to have priests or bishops marry. At least if you look at the Tradition set by Our Divine Lord and Savior when he chose Simon Peter as the first Pope. As you know, according to Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, III, vi, ed. Dindorf, II, 276), Simon was married and had children. Further, ther have been 39 Popes of the Roman Catholic Church who have been married.
johnshuster.com/thirtynine_popes.htm
 
I don;t see how it breaks with tradition to have priests or bishops marry. At least if you look at the Tradition set by Our Divine Lord and Savior when he chose Simon Peter as the first Pope. As you know, according to Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, III, vi, ed. Dindorf, II, 276), Simon was married and had children. Further, ther have been 39 Popes of the Roman Catholic Church who have been married.
johnshuster.com/thirtynine_popes.htm
You need to read more about Peter.

No where in scripture does it say that Peter’s wife was still alive or with him.
second, Sacred Trandition tells us that there were married priests but the discipline of celibacy became part of the Tradition very early on because of the dangers and time consuming ministry. Paul tells them that remaining celibate [single] would be best as he remained single, which implies chasteness and thus celibate. Tell me one Orthodox bishop that is currently married.
 
I don;t see how it breaks with tradition to have priests or bishops marry. At least if you look at the Tradition set by Our Divine Lord and Savior when he chose Simon Peter as the first Pope. As you know, according to Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, III, vi, ed. Dindorf, II, 276), Simon was married and had children. Further, ther have been 39 Popes of the Roman Catholic Church who have been married.
johnshuster.com/thirtynine_popes.htm
Father Shuster, married Catholic priest, isn’t exactly an impartial writer. Yes, we’ve had a major scandal with pedophile priests who should have been prosecuted immediately. But let’s not jump from one fire to another. I discussed this with some Jewish friends praising them for never having such scandals. They quickly told me their rabbi had just run off with the temple’s female accountant and the temple’s $$ leaving his wife and kids behind. Or how about the number of times Protestant ministers have made the headlines with their infidelities with strippers etc.
 
You need to read more about Peter.

No where in scripture does it say that Peter’s wife was still alive or with him.
.
Oh really? Have you ever actually read the Bible?
Paul writes this in 1 Corinthians 9:5 - Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
 
Father Shuster, married Catholic priest, isn’t exactly an impartial writer. .
So you don’t trust Father Shuster? But do you trust Our Divine Lord and Savior who chose a married man, Simon Peter to be the first Pope of the Catholic Church?
 
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