Archbishop Wilton Gregory will not deny Biden Communion

[upant]

Check out Father Robert Drinan, S.J. on wikipedia.

I did

my takeaway thought, if he was correct the pope would not have put an end to his career
(all bold below is mine)

According to the Wall Street Journal, Drinan played a key role in the pro-choice platform’s becoming a common stance of politicians from the Kennedy family.[6]
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In 1980, Pope John Paul II unequivocally demanded that all priests withdraw from electoral politics.

@Don_Ruggero is it wrong for me to agree with Cardinal O’Connor? my attitude and language is in-part shaped by the words and actions of priests like Father Robert Drinan, S.J.

How many babies have died because of his position and actions? how many more need to die due to the clergy being PC

Cardinal John O’Connor sharply denounced Drinan. “You could have raised your voice for life; you raised it for death,” the cardinal wrote, “Hardly the role of a lawyer. Surely not the role of a priest.”

Forever is a long time.

abortion is forever? it is non-negotiable.

the words and actions of a priest on a young person’s life can lead to consequences that will be forever.

 

[upant]

If that is your actual thought, you don’t understand the most rudimentary concepts of ecclesiology.

the 3 bishops are all equally not part of Biden’s dioceses, or is that wrong? don’t these bishops follow the same rules? a task force was set up to handle the issue.

Indeed it leaves me questioning whether you are actually Catholic.

define what it takes to be a catholic? maybe I’m not

Why are you being so argumentative with a priest? Catholics should know that the word of the priest is to be taken as more important than their own opinions. I am shocked at the disrespect you are showing.

I do not know if the poster is a priest.

I am agreeing with the position of 2 bishops and he says I am wrong. are those bishops wrong? don’t you see the confusion? he follows B Gregory and I follow B Chaput and Burke. which is correct? it is not wrong to stand up for 2 bishops, no matter who you are discussing the issue with.

 

[catholic03]

I do not know if the poster is a priest.

I am agreeing with the position of 2 bishops and he says I am wrong. are those bishops wrong? don’t you see the confusion? he follows B Gregory and I follow B Chaput and Burke. which is correct? it is not wrong to stand up for 2 bishops, no matter who you are discussing the issue with.

@Don_Ruggero is a priest, and a theologian. The important thing is that Cardinal Wilton Gregory is the Archbishop of Washington D.C. Cardinal Burke and Archbishop Chaput are not. I admire both of them, but they do not have jurisdiction over the Archdiocese of Washington D.C; Cardinal Gregory does. Therefore, in matters pertaining to the Archdiocese of Washington D.C., one should listen to Cardinal Gregory.

I am not exempting myself from this attitude, but I think there is a very dangerous tendency for laypeople, especially traditionalists, to place themselves above the priest and bishop. This is an error. We must be obedient to them; it is not our place to criticise them. We all answer to God. Clergy know best. Cardinal Gregory knows best in his own diocese. Trust that he is guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[AlNg]

my takeaway thought, if he was correct the pope would not have put an end to his career

We often hear about how Protestants are divided. But are Catholics divided on this? One bishop says Biden should be denied communion another says no?

 

[catholic03]

@upant

I will give another example. I live in the Archdiocese of Wellington, New Zealand. My Ordinary is His Eminence John Atcherley Cardinal Dew. Some Catholics say he is too liberal, and criticise him. I even had this attitude in the past. Now I realise that it is foolish and futile to put my own base theological opinions above His Eminence’s. He knows best. He is a bishop; I am a layperson. It is not my place to criticise; it is my place to follow His Eminence’s directives with filial piety.

The Church is not a democracy. Laypeople have not got a right to openly criticise priests, bishops, and cardinals.

 

[Rau]

The important thing is that Cardinal Wilton Gregory is the Archbishop of Washington D.C. Cardinal Burke and Archbishop Chaput are not. I admire both of them, but they do not have jurisdiction over the Archdiocese of Washington D.C; Cardinal Gregory does. Therefore, in matters pertaining to the Archdiocese of Washington D.C., one should listen to Cardinal Gregory.

In such matters, he has authority and capacity to act. It is a mistake to think that gives him greater wisdom.

…it is not our place to criticise them. We all answer to God. Clergy know best. Cardinal Gregory knows best in his own diocese. Trust that he is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Recent church history is not readily reconcilable with such a view. Many bishops did not know best.

 

[upant]

the Archbishop of Washington D.C.

Biden is still part of the Wilmington Delaware diocese. a task force was set up on how the church will handle Biden’s presidency. if the task force isn’t proper, why did the bishops set it up? why did B Gregory put out his position before the task force finalized its position and before Biden was under his jurisdiction.

now we have the rule, is Biden canonically allowed to present himself or not, it can’t be yes in one diocese and no in another. However this is exactly what we have. Biden was refused in one diocese he presented himself in and B Gregory said he will not. was the bishop in the diocese who’s policy it is to refuse politicians wrong? some say it is a local issue but what happens as Biden presents himself across the country? some refuse and some don’t. what a mess.

I think there is a very dangerous tendency for laypeople, especially traditionalists, to place themselves above the priest and bishop.

B Burke and Chaput aren’t lay-people,

are they wrong or B Gregory?

This is an error. We must be obedient to them; it is not our place to criticise them

you would not say that if you were in my shoes. If @Don_Ruggero is a priest and wants to know the rest of my story he can PM me. I will tell him exactly why I am like I am. I would PM him but don’t want to take up his time if he isn’t interested

 

[catholic03]

B Burke and Chaput aren’t lay-people,

are they wrong or B Gregory?

None are wrong. Cardinal Gregory Gregory has jurisdiction in the Archdiocese of Washington D.C. He has made a decision in accordance with Canon Law and the doctrines of the Church. Archbishop Emeritus of Philadelphia Charles Chaput, and Cardinal Burke do not have jurisdiction in Washington D.C, as much as I admire them.

Bishops may have different experiences and come to different conclusions in such matters because the Faith is lived differently in different parts of the USA, and indeed the world.

 

[upant]

One bishop says Biden should be denied communion another says no?

exactly, the church has rules

The Church is not a democracy. Laypeople have not got a right to openly criticise priests, bishops, and cardinals.

you miss the point, bishops, who are not at this time over Biden, are publicly coming down on both sides of the issue (whether a person who they deem unworthy can receive). both can’t be correct, either Biden is worthy or he isn’t. he can’t be unworthy in South Carolina but worthy in wash DC.

 

[AlNg]

some refuse and some don’t. what a mess.

B Burke and Chaput aren’t lay-people,

are they wrong or B Gregory?

Just like Protestants, Catholics are divided on many issues. The way of getting around this is to say that these issues are not essential.

 

[upant]

Cardinal Gregory Gregory has jurisdiction in the Archdiocese of Washington D.C.

again Biden is still in Wilmington.

 

[catholic03]

you miss the point, bishops, who are not at this time over Biden, are publicly coming down on both sides of the issue (whether a person who they deem unworthy can receive). both can’t be correct, either Biden is worthy or he isn’t. he can’t be unworthy in South Carolina but worthy in wash DC.

Biden supports policies directly contrary to Church teaching. Different bishops make prudent decisions (and may sometimes come to different conclusions, because they are human beings) about whether he should be denied communion or not.

 

[Flor]

We need to pray for President Biden, not try to dismantle him before he even takes office. Honey attracts more takers than vinegar.

 

[catholic03]

again Biden is still in Wilmington.

Then Cardinal Gregory has not got jurisdiction over him yet. Bishop William F. Malooly of the Diocese of Wilmington has jurisdiction over him. Biden is under his authority at the moment, so his decision is what’s important presently. Not Cardinal Gregory’s.

 

[upant]

The way of getting around this is to say that these issues are not essential.

presenting unworthy is essential, see St Paul for what happens when you present yourself unworthy

. Different bishops make prudent decisions (and may sometimes come to different conclusions, because they are human beings) about whether he should be denied communion or not.

so there will be no scandal if Biden is denied communion in another diocese? as president he isn’t local, he is national, and why I believe a task force was set up to discern what to do.

you can’t have the president being refused here but not there, again it is scandalous.

 

[catholic03]

so there will be no scandal if Biden is denied communion in another diocese? as president he isn’t local, he is national, and why I believe a task force was set up to discern what to do.

you can’t have the president being refused here but not there, again it is scandalous.

Well, the Task Force will presumably make decisions. They have not made a universal decision about whether or not to give Biden communion yet. If they do, then that solves your problem. If they don’t then it is left to the prudence of individual bishops. I wish you good day, for I have not the time to argue back and forth about which bishop in another country is correct. Good day to you.

 

[upant]

Not Cardinal Gregory’s.

exactly but everyone says I am wrong,

We need to pray for President Biden, not try to dismantle him before he even takes office. Honey attracts more takers than vinegar.

the clergy should be concerned with his salvation and not the politics of the situation.

the issue should be addressed biblically and not politically disguised as pastoral.

 

[whatistrue]

Which I never disputed. Just that it would change for him at some point, but not for the others. Still not clear?

 

[Don_Ruggero]

What does that mean?

I think the statement I made is transparently clear.

If a person is not addressing a prelate by his proper title…addressing two Cardinals and an Archbishop emeritus as though they were mere Bishops.

If a person does not understand the distinction between a sitting diocesan Ordinary and a prelate who has been made emeritus, I am left to conclude the person is not Catholic. So fundamental are these concepts and distinctions that even Catholic school children know and understand and can appreciate the difference.

 

[catholic03]

exactly but everyone says I am wrong,

Well, then why were you talking about Cardinal Gregory? If he has no jurisdiction over Biden’s diocese, then it is not an issue. His Eminence does not come into the equation. You should thus trust in the decision of His Excellency Bishop William F. Maloony, of the Diocese of Wilmington. Whatever decision he has made about Biden receiving communion, trust in it.

I have no idea of your age or if you have theological qualifications, but as a 17 year old layman with no formal theological training, how could I possibly say that I have the right to question a man whose soul has the indelible mark of the Sacrament of Holy Orders on it? I am a humble layperson; Neither you nor I have the right to question the legitimate decision of a diocesan bishop, @upant.