Are bikinis always sinful?

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PumpkinSeed said:
Right, so its wrong and immodest in lets say a public store, but automatically becomes modest and okay on a beach?
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Yes. Just as it is modest to wear shorts and a tank top to go out jogging on a hot day, but it’s not modest to wear such to Church.
Sorry, I don’t see the difference between underwear and a bikini. They look the same to me. Oh well I guess. 😛
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🙂
 
Catechism:

2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

2525 Christian purity requires a purification of the social climate. It requires of the communications media that their presentations show concern for respect and restraint. Purity of heart brings freedom from widespread eroticism and avoids entertainment inclined to voyeurism and illusion.

2526 So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom; the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law. Those in charge of education can reasonably be expected to give young people instruction respectful of the truth, the qualities of the heart, and the moral and spiritual dignity of man.

2527 "The Good News of Christ continually renews the life and culture of fallen man; it combats and removes the error and evil which flow from the ever-present attraction of sin. It never ceases to purify and elevate the morality of peoples. It takes the spiritual qualities and endowments of every age and nation, and with supernatural riches it causes them to blossom, as it were, from within; it fortifies, completes, and restores them in Christ."316

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a9.htm#I
 
Debora123 said:
Yes. Just as it is modest to wear shorts and a tank top to go out jogging on a hot day, but it’s not modest to wear such to Church.

🙂
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True, you do have a point. I guess I don’t have an argument against that.
 
mwncheesehead said:
Lucy, does a modest bikini generally mean that it has little or no cleavage and that the backside is fully covered? Just asking…
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Yes. The bikini I have has a ruffle across the front(it lays flat) so unless you are a lot taller than me and making an effort to look down my top you wont see my cleavage. And the backside is also pretty covered. As much as a normal swimsuit would be. I’d include a picture(not of myself 😉 ) but that might not fly around here.
 
PumpkinSeed said:
Right, so its wrong and immodest in lets say a public store, but automatically becomes modest and okay on a beach?

Sorry, I don’t see the difference between underwear and a bikini. They look the same to me. Oh well I guess. 😛
Click to expand...
JPII speaks about situational modesty:

"If then we wish to pass a moral judgement on particular forms of dress we
have to start from the particular functions which they serve. When a person
uses such a form of dress in accordance with its objective function we cannot
claim to see anything immodest in it, even if it involves partial nudity. Whereas
the use of such a costume outside its proper context is immodest, and is inevitably
felt to be so. For example, there is nothing immodest about the use of a bathing
costume at a bathing place, but to wear it in the street or while out for a walk is
contrary to the dictates of modesty.”
— from Love and Responsibility by Karol Wojtyla
 
Crescentinus said:
Is there such a thing as a conservative tankini? I’ve only heard of this now.
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I think tankinis are generally the most conservative because they cover as much as a one piece but the top is usually not as fitted and sometimes swingy.
 
LucyLight said:
JPII speaks about situational modesty:

"If then we wish to pass a moral judgement on particular forms of dress we
have to start from the particular functions which they serve. When a person
uses such a form of dress in accordance with its objective function we cannot
claim to see anything immodest in it, even if it involves partial nudity. Whereas
the use of such a costume outside its proper context is immodest, and is inevitably
felt to be so. For example, there is nothing immodest about the use of a bathing
costume at a bathing place, but to wear it in the street or while out for a walk is
contrary to the dictates of modesty.”
— from Love and Responsibility by Karol Wojtyla
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Note – bathing suits were very different when he wrote this…

I am imagine he would agree that those that bring about too much emphasis to the --to use his term-- the sexual values of the body --would be immodest even at the beach.
 
Bookcat said:
Note – bathing suits were very different when he wrote this…

I am imagine he would agree that those that bring about too much emphasis to the --to use his term-- the sexual values of the body --would be immodest even at the beach.
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That’s beside the point. He was making the case for situational modesty. What is appropriate in one place is not appropriate in another. That’s all he is saying here. Even a conservative, modest swimsuit would look trashy if you wore it to the grocery store.
 
epan said:
Underwear and nudity are not a problem in my house. I will admit that I have been in a situation where another person was uncomfortable and I put some clothes on. One example, is a time going to the beach with a female friend. It was a well known nude beach. I didn’t think anything of it, and shucked my shorts. She was obviously uncomfortable with that, so I put them back on, preferring to be more uncomfortable myself than to make her uncomfortable. The point is that it depends on who is present, and whether they are comfortable with normal nudity, or whether they sexualize it.
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Surely you as a Christian must believe in modesty?
 
LucyLight said:
That’s beside the point. He was making the case for situational modesty. What is appropriate in one place is not appropriate in another. That’s all he is saying here. Even a conservative, modest swimsuit would look trashy if you wore it to the grocery store.
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yes of course…

But in line with the thread as a whole – I add the above.
 
LucyLight said:
I think tankinis are generally the most conservative because they cover as much as a one piece but the top is usually not as fitted and sometimes swingy.
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Then again, it is rare for me to see a tankini. o:

I recall one of my friends told me that a conservative one-piece is the best as far as aesthetics and covering up are concerned.
 
LucyLight said:
That’s beside the point. He was making the case for situational modesty. What is appropriate in one place is not appropriate in another. That’s all he is saying here. Even a conservative, modest swimsuit would look trashy if you wore it to the grocery store.
Click to expand...
I disagree, I think that there is more to it. He talks about objective functionality, a lot of choices for modern swimsuits are based on subjective (name removed by moderator)uts and even if they are consistent with the objective functionality they are contrary to rules of modesty even on a beach.
 
Bookcat said:
Catechism:

2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

2525 Christian purity requires a purification of the social climate. It requires of the communications media that their presentations show concern for respect and restraint. Purity of heart brings freedom from widespread eroticism and avoids entertainment inclined to voyeurism and illusion.

2526 So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom; the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law. Those in charge of education can reasonably be expected to give young people instruction respectful of the truth, the qualities of the heart, and the moral and spiritual dignity of man.

2527 "The Good News of Christ continually renews the life and culture of fallen man; it combats and removes the error and evil which flow from the ever-present attraction of sin. It never ceases to purify and elevate the morality of peoples. It takes the spiritual qualities and endowments of every age and nation, and with supernatural riches it causes them to blossom, as it were, from within; it fortifies, completes, and restores them in Christ."316

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a9.htm#I
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An interesting factum I ran across some time ago – when the Bikini was first invented and introduced in France – no normal model was able to be found who was willing to model it.

They had to hire one who was already being objectified by men and thus did not care about immodesty – to model it for them.
 
Bookcat said:
An interesting factum I ran across some time ago – when the Bikini was first invented and introduced in France – no normal model was able to be found who was willing to model it.

They had to hire one who was already being objectified by men and thus did not care about immodesty – to model it for them.
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Times change I guess. Nobody wants to be the first. Now if you wear a bikini you just blend in. Modeling is a little different though because all eyes are on you and you and the clothing are being evaluated.
 
Cristiano said:
I disagree, I think that there is more to it. He talks about objective functionality, a lot of choices for modern swimsuits are based on subjective (name removed by moderator)uts and even if they are consistent with the objective functionality they are contrary to rules of modesty even on a beach.
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Well women seem to care more about aesthetics than men so yes our swimsuits are not just functional we like them to be pretty or at least attractive to us. If everything was just functional we would have no art. I don’t disagree with you that a lot of swimsuits are immodest. I just think that your definition of immodest would be broader than mine.
 
LucyLight said:
Now if you wear a bikini you just blend in.
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It is very sad that bikinis are everywhere (my wife had a horrid time trying to find a bathing suit that was modest and beautiful) --and one may blend in with the others --but it can still be very troublesome for men who seek to live the virtues of modesty and chastity.
 
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