Are Catholics easy targets?

[eucharisteo]

On the highlighted part I want to respond. Sheep breed sheep, the shepherd (the pastor/priest) is there to guide. Statistics show that 85% of persons are members of a church because of the invitation of another member. It is only about 5% are there because of a pastor/priest as it is felt it was their “obligation” to invite them in the first place. The other 10% are there because of family or denominational loyalty. With these stats in mind is it any wonder people are converted?

The reason i stated it this way is because the parish was dying prior to his arrival. He is a remarkably brilliant man with a talent for public speaking that actually sounds like a pep rally, spiritual renewal…the man is a real preacher and is very much in love with God. Sure, I agree with your statements. However, I believe that all of the programs he instituted are directly responsible for the growth occurring in our particular parish. I am always stunned when I ear someone say they are not very fond of him. To me, he’s one of my modern day heroes for reasons I’ve mentioned long ago on other threads. He has really halped my wife deal with the anxieties she suffers and the family that is constantly looking for ways to convert us the their faith again.

He has actually allowed the laity to do things whereas the pastor prior to his arrival created scandal and did not even seem to care. It was his direction of the flock that strengthened the sheep by feeding them. This help them/us grow into the wonderful community that we have become. That is probably why so many priestly and religious vocations have opened up to answering God’s call. I’m amazed at it and have never seen anything even close to it.

 

[eucharisteo]

I think you hit one of the nails on the head again when it comes to some Protestants who view Catholicism as a pagan religion or a cult so they therefore need to be evangelized to.

This post reminds me that the fastest growing Non-catholic church in Mexico is the Jehovah’s Witness movement. They prey on the fact that many do not know their faith well enough and quickly gain converts as many do not have adequate Biblical knowledge to “battle them.”

I will never forget one time a Jehovah’s Witness came to my door and when I told them of being a priest they immediately assumed Catholic and pulled a Douay. I told them I did not say I was a Catholic priest and quickly found that it was not in their training to deal with an Anglican. When asked what Bible I read I told them the Greek, so they proceeded to brag how they could interpret the scriptures so I handed them the Greek NT and asked them to interpret. They then said that only their elders could do such for them, SO, I invited them to bring an elder of their church over. The next week they showed up with an elder who also could not read the Greek NT. The sad thing was I handed him an interlinear so he could have faked it. I said all that to say this: the Bible tells us to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves, so it would make sense if more were educated to defend their faith so that when a counterfeit shows up or someone misquotes a passage it sticks out like a sore thumb. Do so and you will not the the easy target for conversion.

St. Jerome said it well “to not know scripture is to not know Christ”. Such words are very wise. I’ve found it hillarious when someone tries to correct me when I either paraphrase ro quote from a translation they are not familiar with. I have many translations in my home, including the Greek, but only as a way to try to learn Greek in time. I’ve never taken the time to really get to know Greek. I barely know English, evident in my writing skills here. But what’s so funny is when a Christian tries to act like they know Greek and are scripture experts, yet prove they really don’t know it as well as they claim. Who said that experts are only that because some group of people declared them to be such and they didn’t dispute it enough to correct the mistake. Just because someone has “PhD” after their name does not make them an expert in scripture. Sure, it’s something to respect but is often overstated for subjects outside their expertise. It that makes sense. Tired.

 

[Reuben_J]

May I remind you that part of your OBLIGATION is to be your brother’s keeper, not just to show up to mass as an obligation. If your faith is only obligation to mass it is a hollow faith.

Agreed and I believe so. Please do not be misled by my post.

The context is about the purpose of going to the church; and why some Catholic parishes are seemingly ‘cold’ according to some, and why Protestant churches are warm. This refers to a thread discussing about this issue. My Cathedral in my archdiocese is the liveliest church ever, and so I don’t have any experience of a cold church. But then again it is not purely for this reason that I go to or leave the church. It is the truth that I find in the church that’s of utmost important. Not everybody feels the same though.

I love the Eucharist. I go for daily mass; that’s why even if I am on business trips I will make sure to attend mass even if it’s to the detriment of my meetings. I mean sometimes it cause me to be late for such engagements.

It’s an obligation because the commandment of the Church says so especially for Sundays and days of obligations but I don’t go for just the sake of obligation but because it’s the right thing to do, allows me to be one with Jesus, strengthens my spiritual faith so that I can truly can go and serve the Lord.

I rather resent that comment of Protestants “sell” their church. Let me tell you that if you look at as “selling” then where is your REAL obligation to spread the Gospel yourself. Are you living it in your life? Do others see your light shining as Jesus commands? Or do you show up to church as a “holy obligation.” You should be sharing the faith or as you say, selling it as that is what Jesus told all of his disciples to do.

The subject is about Protestant church. And I did not say it and probably never will. It is the feedback from the said thread. There are some who perceive the Catholic churches as ‘cold’. Of course, these are generalization. Not all Catholic churches are cold nor all Protestants sell their church; but in between some of these may probably be happening.

I do my bit of sharing the faith though many a times unworthily and with little capability.

Sometimes my family thought they don’t have a husband and a father. It is giving talk in prayer gatherings; running seminars and retreats; giving teachings; attending anniversaries and sharing people’s lives. I am also asked to be an advisor to a benevolence ministry that conduct prayer service for the dead’s relative. Sometimes it can run for a week; you know those Rosary things. How many times is it when I receive text messages even late at night because someone needs to talk and to have counsel?

That means even to encounter scary moment like being threatened by a husband with a gun who looked for his wife (my counselee) who ran to my house way pass midnight while everyone in the neighborhood was sleeping because she was frightened the husband abused her.

Incidentally I lead a movement with a theme that we are the Light of Jesus Christ.

But then I don’t count myself much as a disciple and thus everyday have to submit myself during the Eucharist to the ongoing purification and healing grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[Regardless]

This post reminds me that the fastest growing Non-catholic church in Mexico is the Jehovah’s Witness movement. They prey on the fact that many do not know their faith well enough and quickly gain converts as many do not have adequate Biblical knowledge to “battle them.”

It sounds like you impute bad motives on us. “preying on people with inadequate Bible knowledge”-
What do you think our motive is? Do we ask for money? Do we get prestige and promotion if we convert?
Jesus said knowledge of the only true God, and who he sent – Jesus Christ is necessary for everlasting life. (John 17:3)
The greatest commandments are “love God” and “love your neighbour”. (Matt. 22:37-39)

Suppose you find the fantastic truth from God’s word and it develops in you love for God and your neighbour. You see the people around you – even religious people - as you put it : “do not have adequate Biblical knowledge.” Infact they believe and practice things contrary to what the Bible really says!

If you have love for God you will be moved to try and show them the truth, so he is not being slandered. (Plus he has commmanded his followers to spread the truth.)

And if you love your neighbour you will want them to benefit from the truth you have found and possibly attain the everlasting life Jesus promised.

In that lies the reasons why the churches, (even the clergy) are not being used by Jehovah to do the worldwide preaching work that his son prophecied.

 

[eucharisteo]

It sounds like you impute bad motives on us. “preying on people with inadequate Bible knowledge”-
What do you think our motive is? Do we ask for money? Do we get prestige and promotion if we convert?
Jesus said knowledge of the only true God, and who he sent – Jesus Christ is necessary for everlasting life. (John 17:3)
The greatest commandments are “love God” and “love your neighbour”. (Matt. 22:37-39)

Suppose you find the fantastic truth from God’s word and it develops in you love for God and your neighbour. You see the people around you – even religious people - as you put it : “do not have adequate Biblical knowledge.” Infact they believe and practice things contrary to what the Bible really says!

If you have love for God you will be moved to try and show them the truth, so he is not being slandered. (Plus he has commmanded his followers to spread the truth.)

And if you love your neighbour you will want them to benefit from the truth you have found and possibly attain the everlasting life Jesus promised.

In that lies the reasons why the churches, (even the clergy) are not being used by Jehovah to do the worldwide preaching work that his son prophecied.

BUT what you do is called proselytizing, a sort of forced or intrusive method of trying to convert people. Thus the term “prey” is used.

 

[Padrej]

It sounds like you impute bad motives on us. “preying on people with inadequate Bible knowledge”-
What do you think our motive is? Do we ask for money? Do we get prestige and promotion if we convert?
.

What do I think your motives are? Let me quote your own literature.
Those who believe that The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society is God’s only representative organization on earth won’t be surprised to learn that - according to itself - only the organization is qualified to explain God’s Word:
Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book.
Source: The Watchtower, July 1, 1973, page 402

We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ organization.
Source: The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981, page 19

Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason, the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind.
Source: The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, page 587

It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communicating to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose.
Source: 1939 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Page 85

Since The Watchtower assists in understanding the Bible, its study is imperative. Private study of the magazine is essential… If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people, we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the Bible says, ‘believe all things,’ all the things that The Watchtower brings out.
Source: Qualified To Be Ministers, 1967, p.156

Hence Jehovah’s Witnesses are guided in their understanding more by a magazine, The Watchtower than by the Bible. What if you think that is not right? Sorry. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, to reject The Watchtower is to reject God:
Would not a failure to respond from direction from God through his organization really indicate a rejection of divine rulership?
Source: The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1967, Page 124

The apostate makes himself a decider of what is true and what is false; of what is “good and bad” in the way of spiritual food… We should be thankful for the abundant spiritual food we are receiving through the "faithful and discreet slave.
Source: The Watchtower, Aug. 1, 1980, Page 20

But since Jehovah’s Witnesses are not allowed to question the teachings and authority of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, we know the intention is to have you examine believes other than those taught by the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Nevertheless, the WBT&S would be hard-pressed to come up with a logical explanation as to why statements like these should not be applied to the Jehovah’s Witnesses:
Can there be false religion? It is not a form of religious persecution for anyone to say and to show that another religion is false. It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see the difference between false religion and true religion.
Source: The Watchtower (Official publication of Jehovah’s Witnesses), November 15, 1963, p. 688

Since someone who is not a Jehovah’s Witness is considered “apostate” by your own publications it stands that your primary targets are to change this apostasy into what you feel is genuine belief.

 

[Padrej]

BUT what you do is called proselytizing, a sort of forced or intrusive method of trying to convert people. Thus the term “prey” is used.

AMEN!!! could not have said it better.

 

[WatchingMedia]

Many Priests (and some Bishops) are failing since they do not tell, and tell, and re-tell people from the pulpit to read the Bible and read the required “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” first printed in March 2000.

This is why there is so much confusion amongst cradle Catholics. Many do not know what they are supposed to believe. They only hear from secular sources, who hammer home their messages on a daily basis.

It would only take a few seconds from the Pulpit to encourge people to read at home. And tell then how very important it is that they know their faith.

 

[FrJohnB]

It sounds like you impute bad motives on us. “preying on people with inadequate Bible knowledge”-
What do you think our motive is? Do we ask for money? Do we get prestige and promotion if we convert?
Jesus said knowledge of the only true God, and who he sent – Jesus Christ is necessary for everlasting life. (John 17:3)
The greatest commandments are “love God” and “love your neighbour”. (Matt. 22:37-39)

Suppose you find the fantastic truth from God’s word and it develops in you love for God and your neighbour. You see the people around you – even religious people - as you put it : “do not have adequate Biblical knowledge.” Infact they believe and practice things contrary to what the Bible really says!

If you have love for God you will be moved to try and show them the truth, so he is not being slandered. (Plus he has commmanded his followers to spread the truth.)

And if you love your neighbour you will want them to benefit from the truth you have found and possibly attain the everlasting life Jesus promised.

In that lies the reasons why the churches, (even the clergy) are not being used by Jehovah to do the worldwide preaching work that his son prophecied.

I want to cite a passage from the New World Translation
Exodus 34:14
14 For you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God

You claim to follow Jehovah and here you find His name is Jealous. Could that be the reason that doors get slammed in your face because you following the wrong name??? I say this because of the highlighted red portion of your post where you attack every other faith but your own. This forum is not to be used to formulate that range of attack or persecution from you. It is clear from what has already been published in the Watchtower that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only pure faith and all others are going to Hell. If this is your purpose it stands to reason that you will try to enforce your beliefs on those who do have lack of knowledge of the scriptures. Does someone need to bring up practices taught in your “Theocratic Ministry School” of the reasons why you witness and how to proselytize a person by using the scriptures (or their lack of knowledge thereof) to your advantage? Padrej’s point is well taken in that it must have struck a chord with you because sometimes the truth hurts.
Are others easy prey to a person who has limited knowledge? YES and that is well exploited by Jehovah’s Witnesses and any other group that comes to the door to proselytize.

 

[FrJohnB]

Many Priests (and some Bishops) are failing since they do not tell, and tell, and re-tell people from the pulpit to read the Bible and read the required “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” first printed in March 2000.

This is why there is so much confusion amongst cradle Catholics. Many do not know what they are supposed to believe. They only hear from secular sources, who hammer home their messages on a daily basis.

It would only take a few seconds from the Pulpit to encourge people to read at home. And tell then how very important it is that they know their faith.

This is very true. It is sad that a Protestant like Padrej can quote the Catechism better than a cradle Catholic at times. We all have truly failed in that area. If a person knows and can defend their faith they most likely will not abandon it.

 

[eucharisteo]

This is very true. It is sad that a Protestant like Padrej can quote the Catechism better than a cradle Catholic at times. We all have truly failed in that area. If a person knows and can defend their faith they most likely will not abandon it.

Consider the source though. I’m sure he would tell you that there are also many in his faith that can not do what he does. I am a bible thumper, but would never say I’m knowledgeable. However, I know I can out quote most Catholics and Protestants. But that does not mean I know my faith.

In 2003 I was well on my way to seeking a graduate degree from ACU for becoming a preacher, a military chaplain, thus joining our large family of preachers, deacons and bishops/elders. But I was held back by my wife’s inclination to distance herself for personal reasons that only came to light after she converted to Catholicism. Now she supports me 100% to become a preacher, a deacon in this case. She was secretly seeking after her father’s death and I didn’t know it. My FIL was the best Christian man I ever knew and though he was a typical COC he was very dedicated and quite pastoral. I went with him to give to people in need, many of which were doing better than himself. He was quite a man. His death opened the door for my wife to seek. My promise to her mother to keep her in the COC was not broken by me and now they blame me anyway. She converted me in many ways. We experienced a healing, CMTC, visions, strange stranger things like our cable getting stuck on EWTN and our daughter only being calmed by Mother Angelica and the nuns Rosary Prayer every night. We laughed about it with family but never expected what happened next. Long story of intense conversion that convinced us that the Catholic Church must be the one. I sort of came home kicking and screaming.

But in the beginning about a year earlier I nearly died when I discovered my wife posting on the ex-churchofchrist board and that is where I ran into a person, Stephanie, that helped me understand much of what I know today. But most of what I learned I learned in RCIA, CAF, Radio, EWTN, ECF, Theology classes, CCC, teaching. I was accused of being a walking Catholic encyclopedia. I disowned it very quick. I’m actually considering a distance degree with FU for a Masters of Theology. Our DRE told us that the Church needs more Protestants to help teach the cradle Catholics their faith that somehow slipped through the cracks. I love honesty even when it hurts.

The one question lingering in my mind now is why the Anglican clergy are not considered to have the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and ability to absolve persona Christi if they have been ordained by known validly ordained bishops? That’s been one question unanswered to my satisfaction to date. I get the Pope, but probably see him more like eastern Catholics, first of many. The Marian doctrines were very difficult to get past. But after seeing Mary in a dream I became a real believer in her role to help lead souls to her son, our [and her] Lord and Savior.

 

[Regardless]

BUT what you do is called proselytizing, a sort of forced or intrusive method of trying to convert people. Thus the term “prey” is used.

I don’t like some of your terminology.

But isn’t what the JW’s do the same as what the early Christians did?

Look at what Paul urged Timothy to teach. - 2 Tim. 4:2-5.
Is that Proselysing? (Intrusive, forced, converting, preying)?

Or were Paul and Timothy carrying out what Jesus had commanded his followers at Matt 28:19,20?

 

[Regardless]

What do I think your motives are? Let me quote your own literature. …
.

So… What do you say our motive is?

Can we sum that up by saying: “JW’s think they have the true religion and God is using their organisation to provide people with the truth from the Bible?”

Isn’t that a good motive to dedicate so much effort to sharing what we have learned from the Bible? Imagine if we thought we had the truth and just kept it to ourselves.

Why then, are the members of other religions not motivated to go out teaching others what they know?
Surely they think they have the true religion as well? What is missing?

 

[Padrej]

So… What do you say our motive is?

Can we sum that up by saying: “JW’s think they have the true religion and God is using their organisation to provide people with the truth from the Bible?”

Isn’t that a good motive to dedicate so much effort to sharing what we have learned from the Bible? Imagine if we thought we had the truth and just kept it to ourselves.

Why then, are the members of other religions not motivated to go out teaching others what they know?
Surely they think they have the true religion as well? What is missing?

The problem is, what you teach IS NOT what has historically been taught for centuries by the historic church. So you could “sum it up” as you call it with “JW’s THINK they have the true religion and God is using their organization to provide people with the truth taken out of context from the Bible to justify what they believe”

To give credit where credit is due Jehovah’s are doing what EVERY church should do in going around and Witnessing to their faith.
This leads me to this part of your post.

Why then, are the members of other religions not motivated to go out teaching others what they know?
Surely they think they have the true religion as well? What is missing?

If a person does not know their faith because of lack of study in God’s Word they will be reluctant to share their faith. They will also become easy targets for those who wish to proselytize.

Now as to this part of your post:

So… What do you say our motive is?

What part of what I posted from the Watchtower didn’t you get? A person who is not of your faith is apostate and therefore needs to be witnessed to. A person who is of your faith dare not question what the Watchtower puts out of face being called apostate and shunning. You cannot have your own views on what Sacred scriptures say, ONLY what the Watchtower tells you that you can believe. It is the purpose of your organization, by the admission of what has already been published by it that you are to expose what you feel is false about another person’s faith and that is NOT persecution to you because they are already apostate. If one rails back or argues back you consider this righteous persecution because Christ said “if they persecuted me they will persecute you.”

If you were truly spreading the Gospel as put forth in the Bible, let me pose this to you, Did the early church have the Watchtower or tracts to hand out? NO Did they live their faith in front of others and then talk about it when they had to? YES It was the latter that brought converts to the faith. Plenty of people say, “I am a Christian” but their actions do not belay this fact. There are others who win souls to Christ who set examples of faith as the early church did who win many souls to Christ because others want what they have.

 

[Esdra]

How do you justify trying to convert Catholics or any other group of Christian to come into your church?

Hi,

actually Catholics are REALLY stobborn in that respect. It is VERY hard to convert them. This is simply because too many things are to be given up when you want to become a protestant (e.g. Mary as “goddess”, the Pope, the Eucharisty, the infailability of the pope etc.)
This above is the first group - these are the ones who are really strong in their Catholic believe.

But there is also a 2nd group, especially more and more in Europe - also among youngsters, who are fairly easy to convert, because some of them really believe in Jesus but don’t like the Teachings of the RCC (just as I did. I belong to the 2nd group - although I researched more on myself!).
(although the majorty sadly enough consider themselves as Atheists, although they are baptised. But they simply never go to Church are only Catholics according to their papers.! - 3rd group - and they are also harder to convert, because they are simply not intersted!)

But a “REAL” Catholic is VERY hard to convert. Considering that the 2nd group are no “real Catholics” and the 3rd group also not I answer your question with: "They are extremely hard to convert!"
**
EDIT: OOOPS, missinterpreted the question of the OP. Anyway, I think my post is also useful to know!

So I answered to the Question: “Are Catholics easy to convert to your faith?”**

Best wishes,
Esdra

 

[Padrej]

I don’t like some of your terminology.

But isn’t what the JW’s do the same as what the early Christians did?

Look at what Paul urged Timothy to teach. - 2 Tim. 4:2-5.
Is that Proselysing? (Intrusive, forced, converting, preying)?

Or were Paul and Timothy carrying out what Jesus had commanded his followers at Matt 28:19,20?

Please tell me where in this passage from 2 Timothy that you cite where a person is to be “Intrusive, forced, converting, or preying”

2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

If I want to convince someone of something I certainly would NOT be “Intrusive, forced, converting, or preying.” In Fact I do not see those words in that passage. Even if you take the word “rebuke” it does not mean any of those things but rather to lovingly tell a person of error. Exhortation is simply preaching out for the faith handed down to you so that others will be taught. Paul’s instruction to Timothy was about being a good preacher of the Gospel and had nothing to do with “Go therefore and Baptize in the name of the FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT.” Maybe if you believe in the Trinity that the church has historically believed in you would see that examples can be found of it in Old AND New Testaments. It is certainly mentioned there but Jehovah’s Witnesses have historically ignored this because Pastor Russel who founded the organization had very little formal education, let alone in the Bible and proved in a court of law that he could not read Greek as he claimed to be able to do. The question then becomes for any intelligent person, “Why would someone want to follow blindly the cunningly devised fables spoken of here and resist the sound doctrines that have been historically been taught by the church?”

As I have said before Jehovah’s Witnesses do go out and try to witness to what they believe in. My problem is that when a person tells a Witness that “I already have a church” (or something to the like) the conversation gets ramped up to convince them that what they have is wrong rather than rejoicing that they have faith. I might also add that it is not that hard to witness to a Witness as you make yourselves easy targets as well to a person who is educated in their faith.

 

[Padrej]

Hi,

actually Catholics are REALLY stobborn in that respect. It is VERY hard to convert them. This is simply because too many things are to be given up when you want to become a protestant (e.g. Mary as “goddess”, the Pope, the Eucharisty, the infailability of the pope etc.)
This above is the first group - these are the ones who are really strong in their Catholic believe.

But there is also a 2nd group, especially more and more in Europe - also among youngsters, who are fairly easy to convert, because some of them really believe in Jesus but don’t like the Teachings of the RCC (just as I did. I belong to the 2nd group - although I researched more on myself!).
(although the majorty sadly enough consider themselves as Atheists, although they are baptised. But they simply never go to Church are only Catholics according to their papers.! - 3rd group - and they are also harder to convert, because they are simply not intersted!)

But a “REAL” Catholic is VERY hard to convert. Considering that the 2nd group are no “real Catholics” and the 3rd group also not I answer your question with: "Yes, they are extremely hard to convert!"

Best wishes,
Esdra

Your post shows that you are woefully uninformed about the Catholic Church. Even I as a Protestant know that Marry is not worshiped as a goddess. Where do you get this erroneous information? Please explain the meaning of the word “venerate,” it is not “to worship.”
What do you also mean about them giving up the Eucharist? “Eucharist” is the Biblical Greek word for “give thanks” so why would they give up giving thanks. Now if you mean that Baptists do not have communion I have been to a Baptist church or two that did have communion. The difference is they do not call it a “sacrament” but and “ordinance.”

 

[eucharisteo]

My experience with JWs is that when they’ve approached me they are not willing to listen to reason and scripture. They say they know the scriptures yet misuse the passages to mean something different, as do many Protestants tend to do as well, As a fundamentalist I was bound and determined to always share my faith, almost similar to JW’s. However, I did not engage people aggressively like some of the others I’ve known. Ultimately my deep love for scripture that led me to studying more and more daily led me to realize that Proselytizing goes against scripture. If someone does not listen or refuses to hear truth we are to dust the dirt from our sandals and move on. Today that means leave them alone no matter what we think or feel.

Scripture does not tell us to proselytize. It tells us to teach with love/charity. Being ready to give an account of ones faith does not mean pull scripture out of context and beat people over the head with it as fast as you can, closing your ears to what they have to say. My previous faith is known for doing the same thing. I always loved to preach to JWs and Mormons or anyone else that was willing to chat about the faith. If one walked into my home there would be an immediate lump swell up in their throat to see all of our books and now sacramentals hanging up on our walls, thanks to my lovely wife who found peace for the first time in her life. It would scare non-Catholics for sure. She even bought an thurible with the incense. This comes from a lady that wouldn’t even wear a simple cross around her neck before converting.

I used to argue with a bible chair director of my own faith because he would misuse scripture to prove rediculous things that just weren’t true. Knowing scripture helped me to see right through them. But it took me many years of study and contemplation to figure it out, and on my own. This led me to a point in my life that made me realize that the Church was dead and not true or there was an organization out there that still held the truth yet may not have members practicing the teachings as passed down from Christ. That’s when I stumbled across the ECF, historical evidence of what early Christians actually believed. So when I came across Ignatius of Antioch [note: the same place where the term “Christian” was first used] I read to my amazement.

Ignatius of Antioch Writings

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution55 of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper56 Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.57

He refers to those who do not believe in the real presences of Christ in the Eucharist as “heretics”. Read it for yourself. Nothing in there about JW believes or COC, my former faith, or Baptist, some of my family’s faith.

 

[Padrej]

My experience with JWs is that when they’ve approached me they are not willing to listen to reason and scripture. They say they know the scriptures yet misuse the passages to mean something different, as do many Protestants tend to do as well, As a fundamentalist I was bound and determined to always share my faith, almost similar to JW’s. However, I did not engage people aggressively like some of the others I’ve known. Ultimately my deep love for scripture that led me to studying more and more daily led me to realize that Proselytizing goes against scripture. If someone does not listen or refuses to hear truth we are to dust the dirt from our sandals and move on. Today that means leave them alone no matter what we think or feel.

Scripture does not tell us to proselytize. It tells us to teach with love/charity. Being ready to give an account of ones faith does not mean pull scripture out of context and beat people over the head with it as fast as you can, closing your ears to what they have to say. My previous faith is known for doing the same thing. I always loved to preach to JWs and Mormons or anyone else that was willing to chat about the faith. If one walked into my home there would be an immediate lump swell up in their throat to see all of our books and now sacramentals hanging up on our walls, thanks to my lovely wife who found peace for the first time in her life. It would scare non-Catholics for sure. She even bought an thurible with the incense. This comes from a lady that wouldn’t even wear a simple cross around her neck before converting.

I used to argue with a bible chair director of my own faith because he would misuse scripture to prove rediculous things that just weren’t true. Knowing scripture helped me to see right through them. But it took me many years of study and contemplation to figure it out, and on my own. This led me to a point in my life that made me realize that the Church was dead and not true or there was an organization out there that still held the truth yet may not have members practicing the teachings as passed down from Christ. That’s when I stumbled across the ECF, historical evidence of what early Christians actually believed. So when I came across Ignatius of Antioch [note: the same place where the term “Christian” was first used] I read to my amazement.

Ignatius of Antioch Writings

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

He refers to those who do not believe in the real presences of Christ in the Eucharist as “heretics”. Read it for yourself. Nothing in there about JW believes or COC, my former faith, or Baptist, some of my family’s faith.

I want to address the highlighted parts.
You once again hit the nail square on these points. As I told my seminary class one time you can make the Bible say anything you want it to by pulling a verse out of context.

Case in point, if a person came to your door and told you that the Bible said you must drive a Honda would you believe them? They could justify this by saying the Bible says “the disciples were all together in one ACCORD.” If a person did that in your living room or front step you would probably think they were ready for the loony bin. Why? Because we know that the Honda accord was not made in the time of the Bible. However when one comes to the door and starts pulling scripture out and saying this your church does is wrong, how is it really any different? We should know the Bible totally so that we do not fall prey to such ridiculous things and then become a convert to another faith.

 

[FrJohnB]

I want to address the highlighted parts.
You once again hit the nail square on these points. As I told my seminary class one time you can make the Bible say anything you want it to by pulling a verse out of context.

Case in point, if a person came to your door and told you that the Bible said you must drive a Honda would you believe them? They could justify this by saying the Bible says “the disciples were all together in one ACCORD.” If a person did that in your living room or front step you would probably think they were ready for the loony bin. Why? Because we know that the Honda accord was not made in the time of the Bible. However when one comes to the door and starts pulling scripture out and saying this your church does is wrong, how is it really any different? We should know the Bible totally so that we do not fall prey to such ridiculous things and then become a convert to another faith.

Honda accord!
as my dad would say, “Boy, you aint right.”

What you say is very true. We need to be immersed in the Bible and the teachings of our faith or we do fall prey to others.

I noticed that Regardless totally avoided your story of your experience with Jehovah’s Witnesses not being able to read the Greek Bible and not even their elder could when you handed them an interlinear. It only validates what you and others are saying here that there are some like the Jehovah’s witnesses who are trained in only one way to evangelize and if one pulls a trick like you did where they cannot win they like to claim “persecution” rather than admit error.

I look at the Bible this way, If I only got fed once a week (using mass as the example) my spiritual body would fail the same way that your would if you only ate one physical meal a week. You have got to eat daily physical and spiritual food. Stay fed and you will not fall prey.