Are Catholics required to pray to the saints?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dje101
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
dje101 said:
Thanks for your quick answer.

But why would I WANT to pray to a saint. If God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, why would I want to go through a saint when scripture makes it clear that I can just pray to God?
Click to expand...
Why would you ask a friend to pray for you when you could pray for yourself? “Because the prayer of a just man availeth much.” (James 5:16) 😉
Not to mention, we view them as our beloved family and friends in Christ who have already shared many of our current burdens and can relate to them from a very human standpoint. 🙂
 
dje101 said:
but how do we know that this is what God wants for us to do? i know that the church isn’t built on the solo scriptura (hope i spelled that right) idea and uses traditions as well, but there must be something that can prove this. i believe what is in the bible because of all of the documentation it provides, the consistency, and the years that it has lasted. where are any documents biblical or extra-biblical, that point to anything saying that Mary is the queen of Heaven, that she ascended into Heaven, that God comes to us through her? is there any documentation that survived the early church that is consistent with this theology of Mary?
Click to expand...
How do we know that God wants us to do this? Simple. And I will continue to use the Blessed Virgin as an example for the moment if you allow. We know God wants us to do this because He so ordained that He would come to us through the Blessed Virgin. If Christ is to be our sole model then should we not follow His example? God, in His Infinite Wisdom, chose to be Incarnated in the womb of this lowly maiden. So should we scorn her when God Himself chose her for the most important event in history?

Christ conquered death. The saints are alive in Heaven. God provides for them to be able to see and hear us. They are not dead. And therefore being living they are still subject to the same teachings as they were on earth. To love our neighbours and show charity. What can show more love, what can be more charitable, than praying for others?

You say:
i believe what is in the bible because of all of the documentation it provides, the consistency, and the years that it has lasted.
Click to expand...
The Church provides documentation, a living testimony of the Gospel and Divine Revelations of God (you want documentation of Marian theology in the Early Church? It is everywhere. Mary has been esteemed by every generation. The Scriptures its self testify to this (the Magnificat)). The Church is completely consistent in the deposit of the faith. And has been around longer than the Bible because the Church was directly instituted by Jesus Christ and lived with Him and after He had ascended into Heaven. It was the Church that gave the world the Bible because the New Testament is made up of written accounts of the living Tradition of the Church.
Click to expand...
Quite frankly one should never discuss Scripture with Protestants because Protestants have no right to discuss it as they reject the authority that it was founded on whilst still attempting to claim it as there own.
Click to expand...
 
Dreadnought said:
How do we know that God wants us to do this? Simple. And I will continue to use the Blessed Virgin as an example for the moment if you allow. We know God wants us to do this because He so ordained that He would come to us through the Blessed Virgin. If Christ is to be our sole model then should we not follow His example? God, in His Infinite Wisdom, chose to be Incarnated in the womb of this lowly maiden. So should we scorn her when God Himself chose her for the most important event in history?

Christ conquered death. The saints are alive in Heaven. God provides for them to be able to see and hear us. They are not dead. And therefore being living they are still subject to the same teachings as they were on earth. To love our neighbours and show charity. What can show more love, what can be more charitable, than praying for others?

You say:

The Church provides documentation, a living testimony of the Gospel and Divine Revelations of God (you want documentation of Marian theology in the Early Church? It is everywhere. Mary has been esteemed by every generation. The Scriptures its self testify to this (the Magnificat)). The Church is completely consistent in the deposit of the faith. And has been around longer than the Bible because the Church was directly instituted by Jesus Christ and lived with Him and after He had ascended into Heaven. It was the Church that gave the world the Bible because the New Testament is made up of written accounts of the living Tradition of the Church.

Quite frankly one should never discuss Scripture with Protestants because Protestants have no right to discuss it as they reject the authority that it was founded on whilst still attempting to claim it as there own.
Click to expand...
i find that a bit offensive. one should never discuss scripture with protestants who aren’t open to truth; who stand on street corners saying that God hates these people and God hates those people; who come up with lies about God; people who make accusation without any evidence to their statement. tell me if i’m wrong, but you should ALWAYS discuss scripture with someone (such as I) who is in pursuit of the truth. I KNOW that the bible came from the catholic church and as I am one who is trying to follow Christ the best I can, i believe that I DO have the right to discuss scripture as much as I need to obtain the truth. it is not my fault that i have questions because of my protestant, anti-catholic upbringing.

all i was saying was that it would be nice if there were some letters or something, like the old manuscripts of the bible, which dates back to the early church and backs up the statements of the Marian Theology.
 
dje101 said:
i find that a bit offensive. one should never discuss scripture with protestants who aren’t open to truth; who stand on street corners saying that God hates these people and God hates those people; who come up with lies about God; people who make accusation without any evidence to their statement. tell me if i’m wrong, but you should ALWAYS discuss scripture with someone (such as I) who is in pursuit of the truth. I KNOW that the bible came from the catholic church and as I am one who is trying to follow Christ the best I can, i believe that I DO have the right to discuss scripture as much as I need to obtain the truth. it is not my fault that i have questions because of my protestant, anti-catholic upbringing.
Click to expand...
The comment was in no way directed at you personally, but simply Protestants in general. I looked at your profile-field and saw “Protestant”. If I drew the wrong conclusions I apologise for that.
all i was saying was that it would be nice if there were some letters or something, like the old manuscripts of the bible, which dates back to the early church and backs up the statements of the Marian Theology.
Click to expand...
There was a living Tradition before the Bible. It is enough that the the Church says so. It has been continually believed by the Church that Mary was Assumed body and soul into heaven. What is wrong with this? Why would one object to Mary, the Mother of God, being granted such a privilege?
 
Dreadnought said:
The comment was in no way directed at you personally, but simply Protestants in general. I looked at your profile-field and saw “Protestant”. If I drew the wrong conclusions I apologise for that.

There was a living Tradition before the Bible. It is enough that the the Church says so. It has been continually believed by the Church that Mary was Assumed body and soul into heaven. What is wrong with this? Why would one object to Mary, the Mother of God, being granted such a privilege?
Click to expand...
thank you for the apology and i too am sorry if i offended you. unlike some of the other protestants that you might get on this site that bash Catholicism, i am genuinely looking for the truth. i ask all of my questions not with an attitude of “putting Catholics in their place”, but from a point of needing questions answered. I am feeling the pull to the Catholic Church and before I ever decide to join, i need some questions answered is all. i just felt like you were saying that i’m not worth enough to discuss these things with all of the wonderful people on this site.

as for Mary being ascended into Heaven, I have absolutely no problem with that. I know that Elijah ascended into heaven, so its completely possible for Mary. I’m just confused about the role that Mary continually plays in the Catholic Church. I understand that God chose for Christ to come through her to the world and I believe that she should receive all of the respect in the world. But i worry that she is given too much attention and often replaces Christ.
 
dje101 said:
thanks…whats the Kyrie?

(Remember I’m a protestant, hahaha…don’t know some of these terms :o )
Click to expand...
oops sorry. :o The Kyrie is when we ask for God’s mercy and forgiveness. It is simply: “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.” The priest says it and the congregation replies. It is called the Kyrie, because that is the greek, which is still used. "Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison, Kyrie eleison.
 
jilly4ski said:
oops sorry. :o The Kyrie is when we ask for God’s mercy and forgiveness. It is simply: “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.” The priest says it and the congregation replies. It is called the Kyrie, because that is the greek, which is still used. "Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison, Kyrie eleison.
Click to expand...
oh ok! thanks for the clarification!
 
dje101 said:
Hello everyone,

I come from a protestant background and am having trouble with the idea of praying to the saints. I was wondering if the Catholic Church requires its members to pray to the saints? Also, I heard something about selecting a saint or two to model after the RCIA is over. Can you please explain this? Thanks very much. God Bless!
Click to expand...
No, you are NOT required to pray to any Saint. But requesting help from a Saint is like requesting help from your good friends. This is part of the Communion of Saints.

We, the living, are the Church Militant. We can pray to the Saints, the Church Triumphant. We can pray FOR the Poor Souls In Purgatory, the Church Suffering. When your prayers release a soul from Purgatory, they will be happy to intercede for you before God.

We pray for one another. Note the constant use of the word “We”.👍
 
40.png
dje101:
all i was saying was that it would be nice if there were some letters or something, like the old manuscripts of the bible, which dates back to the early church and backs up the statements of the Marian Theology.

For the first 1,500 years of Chrisianity no one disputed it.

You’ll find some of these “letters” here:

catholic.com/library/Mary_Mother_of_God.asp
 
We are not required to participate in any particular devotion involving the intercession or invocation of the saints (though we are certainly strongly encouraged to do so by both Tradition and Holy Mother Church), but I disagree with those posters who have said “no” in answer to the OP’s question.

We are obliged to assist at Holy Mass, which, if we are uniting our own personal prayers to the public prayer of the Church, as the Church asks us to do, DOES involve the invocation of the saints at various points, particularly on feast days.

Jesus could simply appear to each of us face to face right now and proclaim the Gospel directly. Yet, He chose to send out his Apostles and establish a Church instead. Likewise, in the Old Testament, God could have simply appeared to all the people directly and given his Law…yet He chose to work THROUGH His prophets, particularly Moses. God has always and consistently worked through his ministers, whether angelic or human. If a Protestant can accept that God works through a human earthly evangelist who proclaims to the Gospel and baptizes (as just one example) a pagan, why is it so hard to accept that God could work through a human soul in heaven who now shares in His eternal glory and is even more perfectly configured to Christ than his ministers on earth are? Remember 2 Peter 1:4 - we have become partakers of the divine nature. This theme is repeated again and again in the New Testament. As St. Paul says, we are called to be COHEIRS with Christ. The saints in heaven have been mystically incorporated into the very divine sonship of Jesus Christ…they share in his eternal glory and in the divine life of the Trinity. This is why we can turn to them…God has chosen to share His divine life with them, and thus He takes pleasure in working working through them to assist us in our own earthly journey. Revelation 5 and 8 clearly attest to the fact that the saints in heaven, human and angelic, can offer up our prayers. I am a convert from Protestantism myself…God bless you in your search for the truth!

Check out these links:
scripturecatholic.com/saints.html
 
dje101 said:
thank you for the apology and i too am sorry if i offended you. unlike some of the other protestants that you might get on this site that bash Catholicism, i am genuinely looking for the truth. i ask all of my questions not with an attitude of “putting Catholics in their place”, but from a point of needing questions answered. I am feeling the pull to the Catholic Church and before I ever decide to join, i need some questions answered is all. i just felt like you were saying that i’m not worth enough to discuss these things with all of the wonderful people on this site.

as for Mary being ascended into Heaven, I have absolutely no problem with that. I know that Elijah ascended into heaven, so its completely possible for Mary. I’m just confused about the role that Mary continually plays in the Catholic Church. I understand that God chose for Christ to come through her to the world and I believe that she should receive all of the respect in the world. But i worry that she is given too much attention and often replaces Christ.
Click to expand...
She NEVER, NEVER NEVER replaces Christ.
 
twf said:
We are not required to participate in any particular devotion involving the intercession or invocation of the saints (though we are certainly strongly encouraged to do so by both Tradition and Holy Mother Church), but I disagree with those posters who have said “no” in answer to the OP’s question.

We are obliged to assist at Holy Mass, which, if we are uniting our own personal prayers to the public prayer of the Church, as the Church asks us to do, DOES involve the invocation of the saints at various points, particularly on feast days.

Jesus could simply appear to each of us face to face right now and proclaim the Gospel directly. Yet, He chose to send out his Apostles and establish a Church instead. Likewise, in the Old Testament, God could have simply appeared to all the people directly and given his Law…yet He chose to work THROUGH His prophets, particularly Moses. God has always and consistently worked through his ministers, whether angelic or human. If a Protestant can accept that God works through a human earthly evangelist who proclaims to the Gospel and baptizes (as just one example) a pagan, why is it so hard to accept that God could work through a human soul in heaven who now shares in His eternal glory and is even more perfectly configured to Christ than his ministers on earth are? Remember 2 Peter 1:4 - we have become partakers of the divine nature. This theme is repeated again and again in the New Testament. As St. Paul says, we are called to be COHEIRS with Christ. The saints in heaven have been mystically incorporated into the very divine sonship of Jesus Christ…they share in his eternal glory and in the divine life of the Trinity. This is why we can turn to them…God has chosen to share His divine life with them, and thus He takes pleasure in working working through them to assist us in our own earthly journey. Revelation 5 and 8 clearly attest to the fact that the saints in heaven, human and angelic, can offer up our prayers. I am a convert from Protestantism myself…God bless you in your search for the truth!

Check out these links:
scripturecatholic.com/saints.html
Click to expand...
thank you for your post. your post kind of reminds me of the relationships that protestant churches have among their members compared to that of Catholics. the idea that God is working through angels, Jesus, ministers, priests, saints…even when he could appear to all of us at any given moment, makes me think that God is promoting a real family of believes, not just a country club that meets on the weekends.
 
dje101 said:
thank you for the apology and i too am sorry if i offended you. unlike some of the other protestants that you might get on this site that bash Catholicism, i am genuinely looking for the truth. i ask all of my questions not with an attitude of “putting Catholics in their place”, but from a point of needing questions answered. I am feeling the pull to the Catholic Church and before I ever decide to join, i need some questions answered is all. i just felt like you were saying that i’m not worth enough to discuss these things with all of the wonderful people on this site.
Click to expand...
Again I reiterate my apology for the above. I must confess it was actually a mistake in typing. I meant to say I personally wont discuss Scripture with Protestants for those reasons but due to my mistake I made it seem like Catholics full-stop shouldn’t. I should have corrected it :p.
as for Mary being ascended into Heaven, I have absolutely no problem with that. I know that Elijah ascended into heaven, so its completely possible for Mary. I’m just confused about the role that Mary continually plays in the Catholic Church. I understand that God chose for Christ to come through her to the world and I believe that she should receive all of the respect in the world. But i worry that she is given too much attention and often replaces Christ.
Click to expand...
Well the Assumption was just an example. But you should never fear that by giving due honour and glory to Mary is in anyway detracting from Christ. It’s His mother! How can He ever be offended when we pay her respect? Did Christ not live under His mother’s authority for thirty years? In those thirty years Christ gave more honour to the Father by living under His mother than He could have done by converting the entire world by working the most miraculous miracles. How do we know this? Well Christ done the former and so we know what gave more glory to to the Father.

Honestly, pick up a rosary, give it a try :p.
 
Originally Posted by dje101 View Post
Click to expand...
as for Mary being ascended into Heaven, I have absolutely no problem with that. I know that Elijah ascended into heaven, so its completely possible for Mary. I’m just confused about the role that Mary continually plays in the Catholic Church. I understand that God chose for Christ to come through her to the world and I believe that she should receive all of the respect in the world. But i worry that she is given too much attention and often replaces Christ.
Click to expand...
Actually Mary (and Elijah) were assumed into heaven. Meaning they were taken up. Only Jesus ascended into heaven, meaning he went up by his own power.
 
dje101 said:
Thanks for your quick answer.

But why would I WANT to pray to a saint. If God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, why would I want to go through a saint when scripture makes it clear that I can just pray to God?
Click to expand...
Because we are all members of the Body of Christ, the Church. We pray for one another, its an act of charity. And because there is only one Church, those who are in heaven are still members of that same Church. Thus we continue to pray for each other in this life and the next. And the prayers of those in the company of God are more effacious because they are in God’s presence.
 
dje101 said:
Thanks for your quick answer.

But why would I WANT to pray to a saint. If God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, why would I want to go through a saint when scripture makes it clear that I can just pray to God?
Click to expand...
At the creed you say you believe in the communion of saints. That means you are joined spiritually with the whole church, the living and the dead. It also means that at mass the whole of heaven is where Christ is, which is right there in our presence. Spiritually, that is as close as you possible can be to your beloved dead.
 
dje101 said:
so are saints able to communicate back to us or is it always God that does the talking?
Click to expand...
Hi, dje…you have some excellent replies to your question. I will just add a little.

For Catholics, worship is during the Mass, which is, in a way, the highest form of prayer. For protestants, they generally do not have the mass anymore since the reformation and the only way they (generally speaking) have been taught to worship is by praying.

This said, when a catholic prays to a saint or the Virgin Mary, it is not worshipping but a form of a plea or petition for something. There are intercessory prayers we use to ask the saints for help, but they are not or in no way intended for worship.

When we ask for the intercession of saints, it is always with the intention that any plea is as per God’s will to grant or not and only God has the power to grant it. We pray our plea in total surrender to God’s will and divine providence.

God will find a way to communicate back to us, in is own way, either through the saint, an angel.

Now how do we know God has granted our plea? Before one is canonized as a saint, it is a rigorous process, and a miracle or miracles must be attributed to a candidate’s intercession, investigated beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is unexplained. An example would be one with an illness, and after asking for the intercession of a candidate for canonization, the illness is cured without any explanation whatsoever. Like a cancer that suddenly disappeared.

This is one way we know our prayers have been answered.

You said you are looking into the Marian apparitions. Have you looked at Lourdes? There are documented miracles with the water from the spring there. And Fatima-the miracle of the sun witnessed by 50,000+ people.

You may also look at chapter 4 to 8 of Revelation, where the account of the elders, and saints and angels bring prayers to God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top