Are Catholics required to pray to the saints?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dje101
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
so the theology of Mary being one of the great intercessors for us in heaven is not a new idea?
No. The Eastern churches actually have a vast treasure of knowledge of Mary, which they imparted to the Western church. It is from our EC brothers that we knew about the Assumption, I think.

newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm

From the wedding at Cana, we know that Mary is very close to God. I think you are familiar with the account. Note what Mary said to the servants…"“Do whatever he tells you.” This the same thing Mary does today, point us towards His son and to do whatever He tells us.
 
No. The Eastern churches actually have a vast treasure of knowledge of Mary, which they imparted to the Western church. It is from our EC brothers that we knew about the Assumption, I think.

newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm

From the wedding at Cana, we know that Mary is very close to God. I think you are familiar with the account. Note what Mary said to the servants…"“Do whatever he tells you.” This the same thing Mary does today, point us towards His son and to do whatever He tells us.
That is true. In the East, Mary is always depicted in context with Jesus Christ. She is above all humans and angels because of her role as Mother of God. Thus she is always referred to as the Theotokos. A loose translation is Mother of God, or a closer translation is “the God-bearer” or “one who bore God”.
 
thank you everyone for your thoughtful answers. i have another question associated with this that i am hoping someone can answer. IF we can pray to saints (still kind of hard for me to accept, give me some time here 😉 ), what is the point of having patron saints? also, i’ve heard that the rosary is a devotion to mary but also praying through mary to God. which is true? or are both true?
 
My dear brother dje101, I wish you great health and benediction as you go forth in the name of God. 🙂
  1. The notion of choosing a patron saint contains two human operations: one of the will, and one of the intellect. In the operation of the will, you force yourself to see just which saint or saints has/have influenced you; in the operation of the intellect, you prayerfully probe your mind to discern who has influenced or prayed for you most. As an example: I am choosing St. Thomas Aquinas for a patron. Not only am I obsessed with books and disputations (as was he) but I am also a somewhat portly fellow who places great importance on chastity (as did he). Seeing these similarities in my life to his life, I realised that St. Thomas may very well be praying for me, so God may give me light.
Look for saints in this vein: who often said prayers which you find yourself praying; who worked or were interested in your own field of work; who had your interests; who loved the things you love! There are many histories of saints, and several autobiographies! You choose a patron in Heaven based on whether you feel he/she has prayed for you in your journey to God our Lord. You may search for a long time, but eventually you will crash into a saint who you just know has prayed for you in Heaven. It’ll connect!
  1. The notion of reaching Jesus Christ through Mary is somewhat dubious given the fact that our Lord said He is the only way to the Father. I suppose He did not say that we must not come to Him through His mother, but He hardly commanded it; however, pious love of God and of His mother is most excellent, if done with innocent faith. The rosary meditates mostly on our Lord’s life, and the 10 Hail Marys are a way of uniting your soul to Mary’s prayers for humanity in Heaven, while thinking solely about our Lord.
If you feel uncomfortable praying the rosary mysteries which focus a lot on our Lady (the joyful and, to some extent, the glorious), please start with the Sorrowful. The Sorrowful mysteries (Wednesday and Friday, especially Friday) focus entirely 100% on our Lord Jesus Christ. There isn’t even a mention of Mary in the contemplation, except for your prayers. Remember that the sole purpose of the sorrowful mysteries, for the individual soul, is to enter the events of that wondrous day in A.D. 33 in which we were justified by God.

You must perceive these events with your inner eye as if they are presently occurring: smell the desert flowers, see the crimson blood, and hear the distant thrushes as the clouds gather above Jerusalem. It was an ominous yet happy day, and requires much contemplation. What better way to contemplate it than to ask the highest woman ever born to merely pray for us, acknowledging our sinfulness?

Benedictio Dei omnipotentis: Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, descendant super nos, et maneat semper. Amen. + 😃
 
thank you everyone for your thoughtful answers. i have another question associated with this that i am hoping someone can answer. IF we can pray to saints (still kind of hard for me to accept, give me some time here 😉 ), what is the point of having patron saints?
We have patron saints for the same reason that you have different types of friendships. For example, one mother might be friends with another mother because they can have great conversations on motherhood. Their friendship might not extend much beyond that, but it is still a friendship and they both enjoy the conversations they have about a subject that they are passionate about. However, that same woman’s friendship with her unmarried brother would be very different. He would not be able to fully appreciate her views on motherhood as would her other friend and they would discuss different things than those she dicusses with another mother. Similarly, our saints have patronages because, for example, St. Rita (who had two rowdy sons) would have an easier time understanding what to pray for in her prayer to the Almighty for a mother than, say, St. Thomas Aquinas (a lifelong celibate clergyman) would. I hope that makes sense! :o
also, i’ve heard that the rosary is a devotion to mary but also praying through mary to God. which is true? or are both true?
The rosary is a devotion to both Mary and Jesus (God). We ask Mary for her prayers while meditating on the life of Jesus. So, I would say that both are true! 🙂
 
We ask the saints to pray FOR us; we do not pray TO them!

Big difference!

It’s like asking your best friend to pray for you!
 
Of course we pray TO saints. What do you think the Hail Mary is, or intercessory prayer? How do you think we are communicating with the saints? Prayer, of course!

Decree of the Council of Trent, On The Invocation, Veneration, And Relics Of Saints, And On Sacred Images:
…they think impiously who deny that the saints who enjoy eternal happiness in heaven are to be invoked, or who assert that they do not pray for men, or that our invocation of them to pray for each of us individually is idolatry, or that it is opposed to the word of God and inconsistent with the honor of the one mediator of God and men, Jesus Christ, or that it is foolish to pray vocally or mentally to those who reign in heaven.
St. Thomas Aquinas:
But in the second way we pray to the holy angels and to men not that God may learn our petition through them, but that by their prayers and merits our prayers may be efficacious.
The Catholic Encyclopedia: Intercession (Mediation)
 
thank you everyone for your thoughtful answers. i have another question associated with this that i am hoping someone can answer. IF we can pray to saints (still kind of hard for me to accept, give me some time here 😉 ), what is the point of having patron saints? also, i’ve heard that the rosary is a devotion to mary but also praying through mary to God. which is true? or are both true?
Did you watch the video? (Lizanne posted a link) If not, do so now. It really helps to clear up some of your questions/concerns.
 
We ask the saints to pray FOR us; we do not pray TO them!

Big difference!

It’s like asking your best friend to pray for you!
Actually, we do pray to the Saints and we do praise them for the witness that they manifested in their lives to Christ etc.

In Christ, matter is sanctified and even divinized. That is the whole point of the Divine Incarnation. By uniting His Divinity to our Humanity, God transfigures, deifies it through Christ and in the Holy Spirit. Grace ennobles us with the power to make a real choice for or against God. God’s love is so great that He wants His Gifts (of Grace) to be our merits. We praise the Saints for their merits and venerate them, their relics etc. This is also reflected in the Acts of the Apostles where the bodies of the Apostles, true Temples of the Holy Spirit, performed miracles by touching, by people throwing themselves into their shadow and the like.

(I do believe, although I don’t have the reference with me now, that the Seventh Ecumenical Council did in fact anathematize any Catholic who refused to invoke the Saints. )

In the Eastern Church, Theosis or the reality of our transfiguration in the Holy Spirit is underscored to the nth degree. The goal of our lives as Christians is the Acquisition of the Holy Spirit - through prayer, sacraments, spiritual reading, the liturgy, fasting, good works etc. Like Christ on Mt Tabor, we too are called to share in His Divinity i.e. “partakers” thereof. Christ lives in His Saints, who are true vessels of Grace, through the Holy Spirit. Christ Himself tells us that “whatsoever you do to the least of My brothers, that you do unto Me.” That was not just symbolic either.

In the Eastern Church, services to the Saints are true Divine services - when we honour a Saint, we honour God Who overshadows and transfigures and lives in that Saint. We cannot invoke a Saint or venerate him or her without giving glory to the Incarnate God Who made them Saints in Him, Who sanctified/deified them in Himself.

This is why icons of Saints always look “the same” - they teach us that the Saint is a Saint because of the degree to which he or she resembled/took on Christ in a real, ontological way through the Holy Spirit.

Yes, we can and do go to God directly. But that is not how God wants us to go. He is the God of Love and He mediates His salvific love and grace to us - first in the deified Humanity of Jesus Christ, then through the Church, the sacraments and through the Mother of God and the Angels and Saints.

Can we go to Christ through Mary? Absolutely! Did Jesus not come to US through her? Did He come directly to us? No, He comes as the Mediator of Salvation and His Salvation itself is mediated to us and then WE become mediators of salvation to others and to the world.

The doctrine of the veneration and invocation of the Saints is intimately tied with the Divine Incarnation (as are icons etc.).

A Saint not only reflects Christ, he/she bears Christ, truly and really - a Christ-Bearer and a Pneumatophor/Spirit-Bearer.

To venerate such is to enter in even more deeply into the revelation that God became Man for us in Christ Jesus.

In fact, the Protestant Reformers were known to emphasize the Divinity of Christ to the detriment of His Humanity - which makes it almost a kind of contemporary Monophysism.

When Christ told John at the Cross “Behold your Mother!” He was saying that to all of us to this day and until He comes again.

The Body of Christ was nurtured by the Virgin Mary. We who are the Body of Christ that is the Church continue to be nurtured by the intercession and example of the Virgin Mary who is truly our Mother.

Alex
 
I just watched the whole video…EXCELLENT speaker (never heard of him) Thank you so much for posting it! 🙂
There are about 100 episodes of this show on just about every topic you can imagine, as well as an entire season about Mary, Mother of God. Find snippets of them all here as well as details on how to view the full episodes: Saint Michael’s Media

~Liza
 
Thanks for your quick answer.

But why would I WANT to pray to a saint. If God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, why would I want to go through a saint when scripture makes it clear that I can just pray to God?
Look what the Holy Spirit told us via James
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
Your question pretty much goes against what James teaches us. We are to pray for one another because God desires it.

In addition, we are to seek out those who are righteous and ask them to pray for us. There are none more righteous than those in Heaven.

And the commands of God are not less in effect in Heaven, the Saints know that even more completely than we do. And thus they not only follow the teachings of the Holy Spirit via James to pray for us, we too are instructed to seek their intercessions out, as their prayers are ‘powerful and effective’
 
This said, when a catholic prays to a saint or the Virgin Mary, it is not worshipping but a form of a plea or petition for something
Exactly!!

That is what the verb ‘to pray’ means. To treat, to implore, to humbly request.

It’s root is the latin verb Precare - to implore.

We also see that in English.

Hamlet Act 1, Scene II
QUEEN: Let not thy mother lose her prayers, Hamlet:
I pray thee stay with us; go not to Wittenberg.
HAMLET: I shall in all my best obey you, madam.
No one would ever attempt to claim that Shakespeare is portraying Queen Gertrude as somehow worshipping Hamlet. Rather, her prayer is what every prayer is, a request, in this case, to her son Hamlet.
 
Do you talk to friends or relatives?

Have you ever asked someone to pray for you? Say during a particularly stressful time?

That is exactly what we are doing when we pray to a Saint. We are asking someone that the Church recognizes as a Saint to pray to the Lord our God for us. In effect, to try to help us out.

Just as a good friend may intercede to help you in a difficult period of your life, we believe that the Saints can intercede to help us too.

As to modeling your life on a particular Saint, some people do that. I personally do not, I try to live my life as me, and i pray that my life is pleasing to God.
 
But i worry that she is given too much attention and often replaces Christ.
If you attend a Catholic Mass you will see that it is all about Jesus Christ. He is the center and focus of our Catholic faith.

Mary is highly revered as an example of the perfect follower of Christ. She was totally obedient, never denied Christ, and never abandoned him at the cross. In the Bible Mary interceded for the married couple at the Wedding of Cana. Would Jesus have made more wine for the wedding guests if Mary hadn’t brought it to his attention? Why wouldn’t she intercede for us? As brothers and sisters in Christ are we not her children too?

Scripture praises Mary, so shouldn’t we? She deserves all our respect, love, and honor but we do not WORSHIP Mary. Not all prayer is worship. Worship and adoration takes place at the sacrifice of the Mass and through some prayer. Prayer means ‘to ask’.

Statues and pictures are not idols, they are sacramentals, ie religious symbols. Religious symbols are OK to use. Moses used a snake on a staff and two angels decorated the tabernacle. Idols are representative of other gods. Mary and the saints are not ‘other gods’.
 
It sure is nice to have someone praying for us when we need it the most. My son was visiting the other night and we ordered pizza. When the pizza delivery guy showed up at the door, my son’s dog made a mad dash out the door and was hit by a car. The dog had an open head wound and was behaving very strangely, going around in circles and one paw shaking and going in direction different from the other. My grown son, nearly in tears, begged someone to drive him and his dog to the vet. As our daughter drove them, I prayed to St. Francis of Assisi to intercede with his prayers praying for the dog to be healed. My son related to us that on the way to the vet, his dog was moaning and growling and thrashing around, then suddenly he was OK. When they brought him home it was like nothing happened.
 
thank you everyone for your thoughtful answers. i have another question associated with this that i am hoping someone can answer. IF we can pray to saints (still kind of hard for me to accept, give me some time here 😉 ), what is the point of having patron saints? also, i’ve heard that the rosary is a devotion to mary but also praying through mary to God. which is true? or are both true?
We do not pray to Saints - we pray Through Saints or directly to GOD. But every prayer whether interceded or not is directed at GOD. We dont pray TO SAINTS. We ask Saints to pray to GOD on our behalf .

As to the Veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary - she has the love and respect of the Entire Church because of GOD’S Love demonstrated for her and returned by her in her complete compliance to the will of GOD. Remember - everything Mary does is in the complete and total surrender of her Human will perfectly subject to the Will of GOD for her , thereby - in contemplating what she says or does - one is assured that if it were not the will of GOD she would not be doing or saying it. Mary is perfected BY her total surrender to GOD. Not because of any actions of her own free will. That is the concept. So in order to understand Marian Devotion - you first have to understand the Relationship of Mary to GOD the Father - GOD the Son and GOD the Holy Ghost and in her surrender in total humility to the Divine Will. Had Mary not surrendered pefectly and completely to the Divine will - the Church wouldnt venerate her as she does.
 
It sure is nice to have someone praying for us when we need it the most. My son was visiting the other night and we ordered pizza. When the pizza delivery guy showed up at the door, my son’s dog made a mad dash out the door and was hit by a car. The dog had an open head wound and was behaving very strangely, going around in circles and one paw shaking and going in direction different from the other. My grown son, nearly in tears, begged someone to drive him and his dog to the vet. As our daughter drove them, I prayed to St. Francis of Assisi to intercede with his prayers praying for the dog to be healed. My son related to us that on the way to the vet, his dog was moaning and growling and thrashing around, then suddenly he was OK. When they brought him home it was like nothing happened.
There are no mistakes.

So glad everything turned out ok.

~Liza
 
This is a really wonderful video entirely about this topic: The Communion of Saints

~Liza
Hey lizaanne, I was finally able to watch that video today and it put the subject in a WHOLE NEW LIGHT. I think that I might just be open to the idea of Communion of the Saints. It might still take me a little while longer to fully accept it, but I’m now much more open to the idea. AWESOME VIDEO! Thanks you SO much! God Bless!:newidea:
 
AWESOME VIDEO! Thanks you SO much! God Bless!:newidea:
So glad you enjoyed it!

There is MUCH more of the same where that came from, so if you have questions about other Catholic topics just check out the site I posted for dailey above to see more.

God bless!!

~Liza
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top