Are Catholics required to pray to the saints?

[anonymous_in_fl]

We do not pray to saints; we ask them to pray ***for ***us

Example:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art though amongst women, and blessed
is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, ***pray for us sinners,***now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Also, the response in the Litany of the Saints is:

(Insert saint name), followed by “ora pro nobis”.

Ora pro nobis is Latin for: “Pray for us”.

 

[Elizium23]

No, we pray to saints. How else would you propose to communicate with the dead? St. Thomas Aquinas and the Council of Trent have said that we pray to saints. Is this not enough?

 

[anonymous_in_fl]

No, we pray to saints. How else would you propose to communicate with the dead? St. Thomas Aquinas and the Council of Trent have said that we pray to saints. Is this not enough?

I’m sorry, but your challange of “Is this not enough?” added to the end of your comment seems to imply that I have somehow committed a breach of Church teaching or doctirine in my post, which I most certainly have not.

I’ve not posted anything that is in error.

Therefore, I think what I have posted “***is ***enough!”.

Thanks.

 

[adam_ek]

Hey, protestant here.
It makes me completely uncomfortable with the idea of praying to the saints. I just think that if we have a working relationship that is always growing between us and God, then there doesn’t need to be a third party.
And I do understand the explanation that its only us asking fellow believers to pray for us, and I have done that before. I just haven’t heard of any support in the bible that people can communicate between Heaven and Earth.

 

[MarkThompson]

I’m sorry, but your challange of “Is this not enough?” added to the end of your comment seems to imply that I have somehow committed a breach of Church teaching or doctirine in my post, which I most certainly have not.

I’ve not posted anything that is in error.

Therefore, I think what I have posted “***is ***enough!”.

Thanks.

The part you posted that was in error was when you said:

We do not pray to saints; we ask them to pray ***for ***us

We definitely do pray to saints. The word “pray” means to ask, beg, entreat. We ask the saints that they will entreat God on our behalf: in other words, we pray to the saints to pray for us to God.

The mistake that people sometimes make is to think that the term “pray to” means “offer worship to.” It does not. It means to earnestly ask for something. In court, plaintiffs file “prayers for relief” all the time; and we all know that the expression “pray tell” means “I pray you to tell me.” Nothing strange about it.

 

[pablope]

Hey, protestant here.
It makes me completely uncomfortable with the idea of praying to the saints. I just think that if we have a working relationship that is always growing between us and God, then there doesn’t need to be a third party.
And I do understand the explanation that its only us asking fellow believers to pray for us, and I have done that before. I just haven’t heard of any support in the bible that people can communicate between Heaven and Earth.

I think you should search harder…

How do you think God hears our prayers unless these reach Heaven.

Those in heaven are alive, you believe this right? So if they are alive, with God, certainly they could hear us. It is in the Bible that when we are in heaven, we are like angels. And angels can hear us, and you believe this, right?

Please read Rev 4 to 8.

From Rev 5:

8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!”

Rev 8:
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Hey, protestant here.
It makes me completely uncomfortable with the idea of praying to the saints. I just think that if we have a working relationship that is always growing between us and God, then there doesn’t need to be a third party.
And I do understand the explanation that its only us asking fellow believers to pray for us, and I have done that before. I just haven’t heard of any support in the bible that people can communicate between Heaven and Earth.

Do me a favor and look in your bible in Luke 16 to see if it has any reference to a rich man asking to interceed on earth for his brothers. See if he asks god to return to earth or he wants to send a saint? You might find it around Luke16:27

 

[pismopal]

wow, thanks for all the answers. I didn’t expect so many people to answer so quickly.

so if praying to the saints is biblical, then why didn’t the apostles pray to God alone in the NT. The same can also be said about everyone in the OT. they all prayed to God alone.

All prayers are to God. You are confused by the term “pray to” apparently…as are many others. The Bible says “the prayers of the righteous are very powerful”. A saint of the Church is righteous…asking a saint to pray for you to God is the same as asking a friend to pray for you to God…only more efficacious…if you believe God’s word. Look for the early definition and origin of “pray” and if you are sincere in your search and not a troll…maybe that would help.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

This is by St Alphonsus Liguori, Doctor of the Church and founder of the Redemptorist Congregation. It is from his book on prayer being a powerful means of salvation:

"But to return to the question just proposed: Are we obliged to have recourse to the intercession of the saints? I do not wish to meddle with the decision of this question; but I cannot omit the exposition of a doctrine of St. Thomas. In several places above quoted, and especially in his book of Sentences, he expressly lays it down as certain that everyone is bound to pray; because (as he asserts) in no other way can the graces necessary for salvation be obtained from God, except by prayer:. ‘Every man is bound to pray, from the fact that he is bound to procure spiritual good for himself, which can only be got from God; so it can only be obtained by asking it of God.’ Then, in another place of the same book, he proposes the exact question, ‘Whether we are bound to pray to the saints to intercede for us?’ And he answers as follows – in order to catch his real meaning, we will quote the entire passage: 'According to Dionysius, the order which God has instituted for his creatures requires that things which are remote may be brought to God by means of things which are nearer to him. Hence, as the saints in heaven are nearest of all to him, the order of his law requires that we who “remaining in the body are absent from the Lord,” should be brought to him by means of the saints; and this is effected by the divine goodness pouring forth his gifts through them. And as the path of our return to God should correspond to the path of the good things which proceed from him to us, it follows that, as the benefits of God come down to us by means of the suffrages of the saints, we ought to be brought to God by the same way, so that a second time we may receive his benefits by the mediation of the saints.

Hence it is that we make them our intercessors with God, and as it were our mediators, when we ask them to pray for us.’ Note well the words – ‘the order of God’s law requires’; and especially note the last words – ‘as the benefits of God come down to … s by means of the suffrages of the saints, in the same way we must be brought back to God so that a second time we may receive his benefits by the mediation of the saints.’ So that, according to St. Thomas, the order of the divine law requires that we mortals should be saved by means of the saints, in that we receive by their intercession the help necessary for our salvation.

He then puts the objection, that it appears superfluous to have recourse to the saints, since God – is infinitely more merciful than they, and more ready to hear us. This he answers by saying: ‘God has so ordered, not on account of any want of mercy on his part, but to keep the right order which he has universally established, of working by means of second causes. It is not for want of his mercy, but to preserve the aforesaid order in the creation.’

In conformity with this doctrine of St. Thomas, the Continuator of Tourneley and Sylvius write that although God only is to be prayed to as the Author of grace, yet we are hound to have recourse also to the intercession of the saints, so as to observe the order which God has established with regard to our salvation, which is, that the inferior should be saved by imploring the aid of the superior. ‘By the law of nature we are bound to observe the order which God has appointed; but God has appointed that the inferior should obtain salvation by imploring the assistance of his superior.’

 

[pismopal]

This is by St Alphonsus Liguori, Doctor of the Church and founder of the Redemptorist Congregation. It is from his book on prayer being a powerful means of salvation:

"But to return to the question just proposed: Are we obliged to have recourse to the intercession of the saints? I do not wish to meddle with the decision of this question; but I cannot omit the exposition of a doctrine of St. Thomas. In several places above quoted, and especially in his book of Sentences, he expressly lays it down as certain that everyone is bound to pray; because (as he asserts) in no other way can the graces necessary for salvation be obtained from God, except by prayer:. ‘Every man is bound to pray, from the fact that he is bound to procure spiritual good for himself, which can only be got from God; so it can only be obtained by asking it of God.’ Then, in another place of the same book, he proposes the exact question, ‘Whether we are bound to pray to the saints to intercede for us?’ And he answers as follows – in order to catch his real meaning, we will quote the entire passage: 'According to Dionysius, the order which God has instituted for his creatures requires that things which are remote may be brought to God by means of things which are nearer to him. Hence, as the saints in heaven are nearest of all to him, the order of his law requires that we who “remaining in the body are absent from the Lord,” should be brought to him by means of the saints; and this is effected by the divine goodness pouring forth his gifts through them. And as the path of our return to God should correspond to the path of the good things which proceed from him to us, it follows that, as the benefits of God come down to us by means of the suffrages of the saints, we ought to be brought to God by the same way, so that a second time we may receive his benefits by the mediation of the saints.

Hence it is that we make them our intercessors with God, and as it were our mediators, when we ask them to pray for us.’ Note well the words – ‘the order of God’s law requires’; and especially note the last words – ‘as the benefits of God come down to … s by means of the suffrages of the saints, in the same way we must be brought back to God so that a second time we may receive his benefits by the mediation of the saints.’ So that, according to St. Thomas, the order of the divine law requires that we mortals should be saved by means of the saints, in that we receive by their intercession the help necessary for our salvation.

He then puts the objection, that it appears superfluous to have recourse to the saints, since God – is infinitely more merciful than they, and more ready to hear us. This he answers by saying: ‘God has so ordered, not on account of any want of mercy on his part, but to keep the right order which he has universally established, of working by means of second causes. It is not for want of his mercy, but to preserve the aforesaid order in the creation.’

In conformity with this doctrine of St. Thomas, the Continuator of Tourneley and Sylvius write that although God only is to be prayed to as the Author of grace, yet we are hound to have recourse also to the intercession of the saints, so as to observe the order which God has established with regard to our salvation, which is, that the inferior should be saved by imploring the aid of the superior. ‘By the law of nature we are bound to observe the order which God has appointed; but God has appointed that the inferior should obtain salvation by imploring the assistance of his superior.’

Well…show me down for this!

 

[Elizium23]

All prayers are to God. You are confused by the term “pray to” apparently…as are many others. The Bible says “the prayers of the righteous are very powerful”. A saint of the Church is righteous…asking a saint to pray for you to God is the same as asking a friend to pray for you to God…only more efficacious…if you believe God’s word. Look for the early definition and origin of “pray” and if you are sincere in your search and not a troll…maybe that would help.

No, you are the one who is confused. Prayer is a method of communication, just like we telephone someone far away or speak to someone who can hear us. The “Hail Mary” is a prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. You can find “Prayer to Saint XXX” on any devotional card or book. We can pray to angels, who never had ears to hear our voices. We can pray to our dead loved ones whom we believe are in heaven. We can pray to those whose cause for canonization is open so that they might intercede and grant us miracles and become saints venerated in the universal Church. The communion of saints is a very real doctrine of the Church and it is not an option to believe in, it is in the Nicene Creed. I suggest you read more about it.

[The Anglo-Saxons]
received the practice of venerating the saints, he says, together with the rudiments the Christian religion; and they manifested their devotion to them both in public and private worship: in public, by celebrating the anniversaries of individual saints, and keeping annually the feast of All-Hallows as a solemnity of the first class; and in their private devotions, by observing the instructions to worship God and then to “pray, first to Saint Mary, and the holy apostles, and the holy martyrs, and all God’s saints, that they would intercede for them to God”.

 

[pismopal]

No, you are the one who is confused. Prayer is a method of communication, just like we telephone someone far away or speak to someone who can hear us. The “Hail Mary” is a prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. You can find “Prayer to Saint XXX” on any devotional card or book. We can pray to angels, who never had ears to hear our voices. We can pray to our dead loved ones whom we believe are in heaven. We can pray to those whose cause for canonization is open so that they might intercede and grant us miracles and become saints venerated in the universal Church. The communion of saints is a very real doctrine of the Church and it is not an option to believe in, it is in the Nicene Creed. I suggest you read more about it.

While we are making suggestions…I suggest that you read my post and see if there was any disagreement regarding your elongated post which is essentially “preaching to the choir”. Actually my post was not directed at you but if I am confused as you say…focus on the words of my post and …gently guide me to enlightenment if you think I wrote something erroneous…just point out the error

 

[Elizium23]

Sorry if I pulled the trigger prematurely but there are other people denying that we pray to saints, and you said that all prayer is to God.

 

[pismopal]

Sorry if I pulled the trigger prematurely but there are other people denying that we pray to saints, and you said that all prayer is to God.

We may have a hair split going on here but the difference is very important…let me quickly make my case. When I pray.(.an old word which meant simply “ask”)…to Mary…I am asking her to pray for me to God…who is the actual final granter of requests…or prayer. I am not praying to Mary that she grant my petition…she must go to God with this. If, therefore, there are persons who think that we, Catholics, pray to Mary…who then grants the object of our prayer request, they are in fact…mistaken. We pray to Mary that she pray for us to the Lord our God. We ask Mary…or other saints…to go to God with our request. This misunderstanding is what drives much anti Catholic thought and it seems never to go away.

 

[Elizium23]

Indeed, that is the very basis of intercessory prayer. The communion of saints is an exchange of prayers so that God may be glorified. We ask the saints to pray for us to God. Only God can grant miracles, so when a prayer to someone indeed grants a miracle, or even merely a request, then we know that person has interceded for us with God in Heaven who is the source of all good things.

 

[centurionguard]

Hello everyone,

I come from a protestant background and am having trouble with the idea of praying to the saints. I was wondering if the Catholic Church requires its members to pray to the saints? Also, I heard something about selecting a saint or two to model after the RCIA is over. Can you please explain this? Thanks very much. God Bless!

No its not required the Catholic Church forces any members to prayer to Saints.

But maybe you can answer me this question. Hypothetically; lets say you had a deceased mother, father or any other loved one or good true friend that you thought was in heaven.

Would you not consider praying to them asking them in your heart for them to pray to God on your behalf for something very important you needed (spiritual) or otherwise in your life?

In the Catholic Church we pray to Saints in heaven to seek needful assistance from God on their behalf.

Would not someone in a position closer to God than you or I have a better chance finding help from God for us? I certainly think so. All prayers ultimately go to God.

Peace
Chris

 

[mattkubes]

Eh, isn’t it required as part of the Mass? We all recite The Confiteor, and even in its current stripped down version we still “ask Blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.”

 

[centurionguard]

Eh, isn’t it required as part of the Mass? We all recite The Confiteor, and even in its current stripped down version we still “ask Blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.”

Excellent example!

Indeed; I should have to ask myself…(“Who am I that I should be so proud and arrogant”) to think I shouldn’t stoop my ego to ask someone to pray for me?

I mean all the resources and powers of heaven are at all of our disposal to only ask others to pray on our behalf. Surely it shouldn’t be too belittling to ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Angels and Saints and our Brothers and Sisters to pray for us, me, to the Lord thy God.

I often think of the many days when I’m downcast and feeling blue with no energy to pray wishing someones prayers would lift me out of the dark.

Thankfully those so many prayers help me often.

Praise Be God forever!

Peace
Chris

 

[dje101]

No its not required the Catholic Church forces any members to prayer to Saints.

But maybe you can answer me this question. Hypothetically; lets say you had a deceased mother, father or any other loved one or good true friend that you thought was in heaven.

Would you not consider praying to them asking them in your heart for them to pray to God on your behalf for something very important you needed (spiritual) or otherwise in your life?

In the Catholic Church we pray to Saints in heaven to seek needful assistance from God on their behalf.

Would not someone in a position closer to God than you or I have a better chance finding help from God for us? I certainly think so. All prayers ultimately go to God.

Peace
Chris

To be quite honest in answering your question, I had never thought about praying to a family member or friend who I thought was in Heaven. True they are in a state of grace that is far greater than that which I am an and yes they are closer to God than I could be in my current sinful state. But the argument that many Catholics use of Revelation 4-8 where it says that the prayers of the saints were offered to God, I had been taught that those beings that were presenting the prayers were representative of Christ’s disciples all over the earth, that anyone of us could approach the throne of God because of what Christ did for us on the cross.

Other questions that continually pops into my mind is “what is the point of praying to someone and asking them to pray for me when I could spend that time in devotion and prayer to God himself?” Also, even if the beings that were presenting the prayers to God are not symbolic for the disciples of Christ across the world and really were the saints in Heaven and Angels, why would I want to address my prayers to someone else if the prayers still end up on the doorstep of God? I think of it like writing a letter to my grandmother. I send the letter via the mail with her address on the envelope; I don’t put the address of the mailman and then ask him to take it to her. Its already his job to carry the mail. Why wouldn’t it be the same with the Saints and Angels? Couldn’t it be that it is their job to carry my prayers to the Lord, but they are always to be addressed the God? I hope this makes sense.

 

[pablope]

To be quite honest in answering your question, I had never thought about praying to a family member or friend who I thought was in Heaven. True they are in a state of grace that is far greater than that which I am an and yes they are closer to God than I could be in my current sinful state. But the argument that many Catholics use of Revelation 4-8 where it says that the prayers of the saints were offered to God, I had been taught that those beings that were presenting the prayers were representative of Christ’s disciples all over the earth, that anyone of us could approach the throne of God because of what Christ did for us on the cross.

Other questions that continually pops into my mind is “what is the point of praying to someone and asking them to pray for me when I could spend that time in devotion and prayer to God himself?” Also, even if the beings that were presenting the prayers to God are not symbolic for the disciples of Christ across the world and really were the saints in Heaven and Angels, why would I want to address my prayers to someone else if the prayers still end up on the doorstep of God? I think of it like writing a letter to my grandmother. I send the letter via the mail with her address on the envelope; I don’t put the address of the mailman and then ask him to take it to her. Its already his job to carry the mail. Why wouldn’t it be the same with the Saints and Angels? Couldn’t it be that it is their job to carry my prayers to the Lord, but they are always to be addressed the God? I hope this makes sense.

I can understand your struggle and your questions.

I forgot where it is in the Bible in the NT, I think it is in James, that states that the prayer of the righteous availeth much. The Saints are there in heaven, as shown in Revelation, and their prayers are the incense. So we send our prayers through them.

The efficacy of the prayer of righteous Job in Job 42:7-9:

7After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite: "My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." 9So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did what the LORD had told them; and the LORD accepted Job's prayer.

Through the process of being canonized a saint, miracles have to be proven through their intercession, beyond the shadow of a doubt. That is why it takes years before a candidate is finally canonized.

My suggestion if for you to read the lives of saints, see the lives they lived and gain inspiration from their lives. Some of them, in their unity to the sufferings of Christ, have uncorrupted bodies, their bodies still whole to this very day. Example would be St. Bernadette of Lourdes, Teresa of Avila. Some of them received the wounds of Christ on their bodies.