Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

[josie_L]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

If u want to claim that having a young wife is a sin , then produce proof from your holy book . Post only one verse that says it’s a sin.

Jesus (pbuh) did not scold David (pbuh) for marrying a young virgin when he was at deathbad .

Can you tell me how old was Mary (pbuh) when she gave birth to your Lord ?? Surely she was not 20 + or 30 + .

Hi Muslim Woman,

The young Aisha was 9 when she married the 53 year old Mohammed, Mary was likely 14 or 15 when she gave birth to Jesus, the difference between the two was that, firstly, Joseph was not that much older than she (several years difference), and secondly, that they never had sexual relations to conceive the child, Jesus. Mohammed after seeing Aisha at the tender age of 6 had already decided then and there to be married to her, how pray tell does a man of his age even think to entertain the thought of marrying someone so young. He waited only 3 years before he decided she was ready to marry him, despite the fact that she was still playing with dolls. Could he have not waited a little longer for the sake of his child-bride?

You asked me to find a verse that would provide you with a reason as to why it is bad to take a child’s innocence away for the purpose of marriage, here goes,

“And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believes in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

What Mohammed did was quite frankly child abuse, if Mohammed truly cared and loved Aisha he should have waited until she was at least capable of mature thought, but we are told she was still playing with dolls. **A child does not go from playing dolls in one moment to becoming a wife who is sexually gratifying her husband in the next. **

God bless.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Hi Muslim Woman,

The young Aisha was 9 when she married the 53 year old Mohammed, Mary was likely 14 or 15 when she gave birth to Jesus, the difference between the two was that, firstly, Joseph was not that much older than she (several years difference), and secondly, that they never had sexual relations to conceive the child, Jesus. Mohammed after seeing Aisha at the tender age of 6 had already decided then and there to be married to her, how pray tell does a man of his age even think to entertain the thought of marrying someone so young. He waited only 3 years before he decided she was ready to marry him, despite the fact that she was still playing with dolls. Could he have not waited a little longer for the sake of his child-bride?

You asked me to find a verse that would provide you with a reason as to why it is bad to take a child’s innocence away for the purpose of marriage, here goes,

“And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believes in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

What Mohammed did was quite frankly child abuse, if Mohammed truly cared and loved Aisha he should have waited until she was at least capable of mature thought, but we are told she was still playing with dolls. **A child does not go from playing dolls in one moment to becoming a wife who is sexually gratifying her husband in the next. **

God bless.

Marriage is sinful?

 

[Agabriel]

That has nothing to do with my post at all.

You are being confusing then. Clarify yourself, please.

 

[Agabriel]

Marriage is sinful?

She didn’t say that in the post. Your posts are very confusing.

 

[inJESUS]

Are you saying that women have different spiritual obligations than men do?

The fact that Muhammad’s wives are Mothers of the Believers is enough to know that in any area where the behavior of a woman cannot be exemplified by a man, she can look to the wives of the most noble example to fill in any gaps, as it were. Yet women do have the same spiritual obligations as men.

no, i said that by his example of marrying Aisha, and since he is considered a role model to emulate by Muslims, thousands of little girls are being traumatised in the Islamic world because they are given to marriage to erderly men fit to be their fathers or even grandfathers as in Muhammad;s case. This example of Muhammad ruined many lives.

besides, it isn’t only about spiritual obligations. There is time for everything and sex and marriage and duties aren’t supposed to be the “spiritual” obligations of young kids.

 

[inJESUS]

The problem that Christians will always have is that the purported qualities of jesus that they think he has if applied would doom the world. Imagine if every thief left uncaptured because the government should forgive him . Or that every man should stay unmarried like Jesus . Or that people wouldn’t rise against tyranny like he didn’t do against the romans. Jesus did not teach any of what you wrote.

The Huge big problem that renders the understanding of the morality of Jesus is that it is no way applicable. Even jesus seemed to contradict himself by using force to throw the money dealers from the temple instead he should have turned the other cheek for them.

 

[josie_L]

Marriage is sinful?

Hi Sister Amy, no marriage is not sinful (but child abuse is). My point was if Mohammed truly loved Aisha he should have waited, for it is apparent that Aisha was not prepared to be married, girls who are playing with dolls don’t entertain thoughts of having sex with 53 year old men. Another point to be made is that at the age of nine, do you think Aisha even had breasts? What could be so attractive in a bride who still has the form of a child.

 

[Agabriel]

Why is it ok to curse Allah, but not Muhammed?

Basically what I have read is that a Muslim becomes a kufir and will be killed, even if he/she repents, if they curse Muhammed. All some scholars agreed on is if the repentence is sincere it would help on the day of judgement. They were not sure if the person would be forgiven or not.

Forcing people to be mute about Muhammed’s behavior doesn’t make his behavior go away and redeem him.

here is a tidbit on Aisha in the hadiths:
"mother came to me
while I was swinging on a swing.
My nurse took over and
wiped my face.
Muhammed was sitting on a bed
made me sit on his lap
the prophet consumated
and I was nine years old.
muslim 8:3309-3311

Book 008, Number 3311:
'A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

I will say that I don’t know how anyone who reverts to Islam can justify this taking away of another’s childhood when they had one.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Thank you guys for all of your posts, Muslims and non-Muslims.

But one argument (other then marrying an overaged female was common) which I find ridicioulous is when Muslims keep asking how come Mulims biggest enemies didnt criticise Mohammeds actions. Well...what do you expect from pagans who sacrificed infents, and burried women alive. Do you really believe that these type of people actually had something against Mohammed who was old enough to be a grandfather to marry a young female who is still occupied with paying barbie dolls?. I dont think so, they propbaly even condoned such acts.

Another thing that I realized while reading ALL of the posts is…I dont really hear direct answers from Muslims. I never heard Muslims women or sister Amy say "Yes it was okay for a 53 year old MAN to have SEX with a 9 year old GIRL". Meedo kindly tried to explain to me this realtionship scientifically, but I just cant grasp how anybody can actually think its okay for a man who is soooo old to have sexual intercourse with a young girl. Just think about it, I don`t want to sound rude but this is disgusting beyond measure if you REALLY think about how that can work out.

Oh, and as far Mohammed waging war, I still want an explanation. See, me- I have no problem saying it was okay for Moses to go against the Amelikites (sp?) and other enemies of Gods tribe. This was pure defense, and the Amelikites were cruel people doing evil acts. I also am aware what time it was during that period. Another thing that Muslims tend to forget. thousands years before Christ is NOT the same era then 600 hundred years after Jesus Christ (the Prince of Salom) was Raised and Acended into heaven. This is why I realize why Moses kept strict laws. But Mohammed...that is a whole different story. He actually waged wars against "non-believers". How can you guys say its okay to kill someone if they didnt decide to follow Islam (which is by the way, a new religion that Mohammed invented, if I am wrong please provide reliable evidence). I mean, Jesus Christ said He didn`t come to abolish the Laws of the Old Prophets, but He came to fullfill them. So what does that mean exactly? It means what Moses did to prevent Jedisum (not Islam!) from getting destroyed or harrased by evil mean was alright at THAT time, but Jesus came now to show us a new way to spread the religion of God…which is by Love! And that is exactly what Christianinty is, a slave of God who by the grace of God became a child with an opportunity to have a much deeper realtionship with the Eternal Father, thourgh Jesus Christ (the Prince of Peace, The God of Moses, Abraham, John the Baptist, The Holy Mary, and even through Him Mohammed was created!)

So please, give reasonable answers if you have any. If you dont...why are you still submitting yourself to Mohammeds teachings. Remember: only because Mohammed said He is a Gods prophet dosent mean He is, and only because MOHAMMED said God order him to do this and that, dosent really have to mean God did order him to behave the way he did.

If you can, I would really appreciate you giving me answers that anybody with an open mind can accept.

May Allah Bless us all:thumbsup:

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

… I find ridicioulous is when Muslims keep asking how come Mulims biggest enemies didn`t criticise Mohammeds actions.

they did not miss any single chance to bash him . So , why did not they condemn it ?

I never heard Muslims women or sister Amy say “Yes it was okay for a 53 year old MAN to have SEX with a 9 year old GIRL”.

I was asked if I had a daughter , I agreed to arrange her marriage at 9 . I answered , if it was Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) ,*** OF COURSE.***

 

[Benjamin8o8]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

they did not miss any single chance to bash him . So , why did not they condemn it ?

I was asked if I had a daughter , I agreed to arrange her marriage at 9 . I answered , if it was Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) ,*** OF COURSE.***

This explains a lot. Ask anybody if they would drink cup of poison they would say no. But if anybody regards a Jim Jones a prophet they would have answered the same way you did “Of COURSE”.

Remember what I said, only because Mohammed said he was a prophet dosent mean he was. You need to think with an open mind to see if he was or if he wasnt.

May God Bless you.

 

[famdigy]

Why is it ok to curse Allah, but not Muhammed?

Basically what I have read is that a Muslim becomes a kufir and will be killed, even if he/she repents, if they curse Muhammed. All some scholars agreed on is if the repentence is sincere it would help on the day of judgement. They were not sure if the person would be forgiven or not.

Forcing people to be mute about Muhammed’s behavior doesn’t make his behavior go away and redeem him.

here is a tidbit on Aisha in the hadiths:
"mother came to me
while I was swinging on a swing.
My nurse took over and
wiped my face.
Muhammed was sitting on a bed
made me sit on his lap
the prophet consumated
and I was nine years old.
muslim 8:3309-3311

Book 008, Number 3311:
'A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

I will say that I don’t know how anyone who reverts to Islam can justify this taking away of another’s childhood when they had one.

Notice that these hadiths were narrated by Aisha herself, she was known to have lied to the prophet in at least 2 occasions, so how can we be sure she is being honest with us. Regardless, It is plausible that Aisha forged this hadith to dispel any notion of her not being a virgin before marriage to the prophet.

 

[famdigy]

Hi Sister Amy, no marriage is not sinful (but child abuse is). My point was if Mohammed truly loved Aisha he should have waited, for it is apparent that Aisha was not prepared to be married, girls who are playing with dolls don’t entertain thoughts of having sex with 53 year old men. Another point to be made is that at the age of nine, do you think Aisha even had breasts? What could be so attractive in a bride who still has the form of a child.

Yes, you are right in that Muhammad (s) did not love Aisha, his marriage to her was not out of love but out of a divine order. As I mention earlier, this order could have been to protect the muslims from the plots of her father Abu Bakr, albeit temporarily and to put the Muslim nation through her, Aisha.

 

[famdigy]

Thank you guys for all of your posts, Muslims and non-Muslims.

Benjamin,

The prophet (s) married Aisha because God commanded it, there are many reasons, it could have been to protect the new religion from her fathers plans, as abu bakr would plan and plot to destroy the new religion, having his daughter marry the prophet would mean that his plans would at the very least be postponed until the new religion takes root, this would also apply to the prophets’ marriage to Umar’s daughter.

Another reason could be to test the wives specifically and the muslims in General. Aisha played a big role in the first civil war in Islam and was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people.

The great companion of Imam Ali (as), Ammar bin yasir recognized this when Aisha went out to Basra to fight imam Ali (as), he said “But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her (Aisha)”

Ammar recognized that Aisha would not have had the ability to influence people and mobilize an entire army had she not been the wife of the prophet. Therefore, Aisha was a source of trial and test for the Muslim nation. The prophet (s) married her fully aware she would go against his religion, command, and lead an army against his successor. Through the resulting strife between the two parties Allah (swt) would try and test this nation to see who will follow the prophet (s) and be among the believers and who will follow Aisha and be among the unbelievers.

This is what Ammar yasir (RA) was alluding to when he said “Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her (Aisha)” That is to say obeying Aisha is not obeying God.

We know that Aisha would not be able to mobilize people against the rightful khalif of the Muslims had she not been the wife of the prophet pbuh. She exploited her status to affect and mislead the Muslims, Allah (swt) granted her the ability to reach this place as wife of the prophet just as He granted it to the wives of Noah and Lot (as). It is for the same reason He granted Satan the ability to live until the day of judgment and gave him the many abilities that Satan uses to effect mankind and mislead them.

This is part of the divine trials and tests, and without it there would be no way to differentiate the truthful from the liar and the believer from the unbeliever.

Also, keep in mind that Aisha was known to have lied to the prophet on many occasions, so the question begs. If she has the audacity to lie to the prophet’s face, how can we be sure she is being truthful with us? this is not an unreasonable question.

Therefore, All of the hadiths narrated by Aisha are highly suspect, unless corroborated by other narrations. Also, I don’t believe that Aisha was a virgin prior to marriage, perhaps like myself there were many others who believed the same, therefore Aisha would have had a strong motive to fabricate hadiths about her age at marriage.

You are mistaken about Muhammad’s (s) wars, All of his battles wars were defensive. The new religion had many enemies from the onset, therefore it was important to protect it against being wiped out. As much as many people would have liked that to happen, God would not allow it and commanded the prophet to defend the new faith. All the early Muslims asked for was freedom from persecution, even when the very early Muslims migrated to Ethiopia they were chased all the way there, All they asked for was a peaceful place to live and practice their religion. So, when you have someone who is bent on your destruction, nothing will work with him but the sword, even then the prophet tried to avoid bloodshed as much as possible. Now If you have a specific battle you want to start with, I’d be more than glad to discuss it with you.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Benjamin,

The prophet (s) married Aisha because God commanded it, there are many reasons, it could have been to protect the new religion from her fathers plans, as abu bakr would plan and plot to destroy the new religion, having his daughter marry the prophet would mean that his plans would at the very least be postponed until the new religion takes root, this would also apply to the prophets’ marriage to Umar’s daughter.

Another reason could be to test the wives specifically and the muslims in General. Aisha played a big role in the first civil war in Islam and was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people.

The great companion of Imam Ali (as), Ammar bin yasir recognized this when Aisha went out to Basra to fight imam Ali (as), he said “But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her (Aisha)”

Ammar recognized that Aisha would not have had the ability to influence people and mobilize an entire army had she not been the wife of the prophet. Therefore, Aisha was a source of trial and test for the Muslim nation. The prophet (s) married her fully aware she would go against his religion, command, and lead an army against his successor. Through the resulting strife between the two parties Allah (swt) would try and test this nation to see who will follow the prophet (s) and be among the believers and who will follow Aisha and be among the unbelievers.

This is what Ammar yasir (RA) was alluding to when he said “Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him or her (Aisha)” That is to say obeying Aisha is not obeying God.

We know that Aisha would not be able to mobilize people against the rightful khalif of the Muslims had she not been the wife of the prophet pbuh. She exploited her status to affect and mislead the Muslims, Allah (swt) granted her the ability to reach this place as wife of the prophet just as He granted it to the wives of Noah and Lot (as). It is for the same reason He granted Satan the ability to live until the day of judgment and gave him the many abilities that Satan uses to effect mankind and mislead them.

This is part of the divine trials and tests, and without it there would be no way to differentiate the truthful from the liar and the believer from the unbeliever.

You are mistaken about Muhammad’s (s) wars, All of his battles wars were defensive. The new religion had many enemies from the onset, therefore it was important to protect it against being wiped out. As much as many people would have liked that to happen, God would not allow it and commanded the prophet to defend the new faith. All the early muslims asked for was freedom from persecution, even when the very forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon3.gifearly Muslims migrated to Ethiopia they were chased all the way there, All they asked for was a peaceful place to live and practice their religion. So, when you have someone who is bent on your destruction, nothing will work with him but the sword, even then the prophet tried to avoid bloodshed as much as possible. Now If you have a specific battle you want to start with, I’d be more than glad to discuss it with you.

wow, youre the first person to call Islam "the new religion". 99 % Muslims would disagree with you, but they wouldnt be able to prove you wrong.

About Mohammed telling his solders to burn the eyes of the men that stole the cammels, I want your explanation on that.

 

[Agabriel]

Notice that these hadiths were narrated by Aisha herself, she was known to have lied to the prophet in at least 2 occasions, so how can we be sure she is being honest with us. Regardless, It is plausible that Aisha forged this hadith to dispel any notion of her not being a virgin before marriage to the prophet.

So now you are saying that a 9 year old was messing around with other men?

This religion is getting more and more nasty.

 

[famdigy]

wow, youre the first person to call Islam "the new religion". 99 % Muslims would disagree with you, but they wouldnt be able to prove you wrong.

About Mohammed telling his solders to burn the eyes of the men that stole the cammels, I want your explanation on that.

Sure, give me the reference to the hadith and I will look it up. I can only look it up in Arabic as all my resources are in Arabic, Perhpas SAM 777 could get the arabic translation for me and i’ll get back to you with a detailed answer.

 

[empurpledsoul]

You are mistaken about Muhammad’s (s) wars, All of his battles wars were defensive. The new religion had many enemies from the onset, therefore it was important to protect it against being wiped out. As much as many people would have liked that to happen, God would not allow it and commanded the prophet to defend the new faith.

Problem with this claim is that God revealed to us in Jesus, who was persecuted unto death, that the use of violence to ‘defend’ Him is not a Holy Will of God. Jesus had many enemies from the onset, and we are to know God’s Word by His perfect example in Jesus, which reveals that it is NOT God who wishes we slaughter each other as some way of
protecting ourselves in our faith, but that our faith is such that we would lay down our lives for one another without harming, without malice, without hatred, violence or brutality and in that we would be representatives of Gods Holy Nature.

Claiming that it was God who commanded the evil violence of war, slaughtering and torturing of human beings ‘on His behalf’ is the singular most offensive lie in Islam.

One who has embraced and partaken of the perfect truth that was already given to humanity in Christ long before Muhammad ever dreamed he was being guided to violent means can in no way accept such a blasphemous rendition of Gods’ supposed will for humanity.

It the the proof that Islam was not the product of holy revelation, but was authored by the ego and human nature of one violent human being who convinced himself and others that God was guiding him.

But the first drop of blood shed in ‘defense’ of ‘the new relgion’ was proof that it was nothing new at all, just more of that which Jesus came to remove from earth, lies, deceptions and misrepresentations of the Glorious God who is Perfect Love and who has commanded us to LOVE our enemies, even to the point of laying down our own lives in the flesh, that we would be raised up with Him for all of eternity.

 

[Agabriel]

Yes, you are right in that Muhammad (s) did not love Aisha, his marriage to her was not out of love but out of a divine order. As I mention earlier, this order could have been to protect the muslims from the plots of her father Abu Bakr, albeit temporarily and to put the Muslim nation through her, Aisha.

You are right, he probably didn’t lover her. More like ‘lust her’ would be more appropriate.

I find this bashing a child to protect a 50+ year old pediphile getting ridiculous. First the excuse she was a liar, but so was Muhammed. The Quran and hadiths state that quite often and even Allah is ‘the great deceiver’. And secondly, she is just a tool and Muhammed used to protect himself.

There are some major problems with this religion and it keeps getting murkier and murkier.

 

[famdigy]

So now you are saying that a 9 year old was messing around with other men?

This religion is getting more and more nasty.

No, I’m saying I don’t believe she was 9 when the marriage was consummated, I also don’t believe she was a virgin when married to the prophet. Which would give her a reason to lie about her age. It wouldn’t be the first time she lied against the prophet.