are muslims to be killed if they leave their faith?

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jen_fla

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i have read that the hadith (translation of sahih bukhari) is widely recognized to be authentic. please confirm if this is true.

given that this is an authentic translation, how can muslims justify death to those that leave their religion?

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64:
Code: 
Narrated 'Ali:

Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. **So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection." **
 
hi zuzubailey.

yes, it sure does seems like a no brainer. you leave the faith and mohammed says you are to be killed. i posted this in another thread and never received an answer.

still waiting to see if muslims will deny this or how they justify it? i can only hope these discussions will lead us ALL closer to the one true God’s will.

peace.
 
The hadith is clear, but well it all depends on how this or that sheikh interprets and Allah knows best.
 
Death is the punishment if someone leaves Islam (peacefully or non-peacefully), here are direct authentic hadiths about the death punishment of apostasy, and that’s fully implemented in Saudi Arabia:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
“Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”
(E) usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen…ml#009.084.057
(A) hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D…oc=0&Rec=10312

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
“…Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu’adh asked, “Who is this (man)?” Abu Muisa said, “He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.” Then Abu Muisa requested Mu’adh to sit down but Mu’adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed…”
(E) usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen…ml#009.084.058
(A) hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D…oc=0&Rec=10313

Sahih Muslim, Book 016, Number 4152:
“'Abdullah (b. Mas’ud) reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community.”
(E) usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen…html#016.4152
(A) hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D…Doc=1&Rec=4059
 
I knew a guy a few years back who left the Islam faith. He did not tell any of his Muslim friends for fear he would be hurt or killed.
 
My former right hand man, a Navy Chief, is married to an Afghan woman. He is a German-descendant from PA. Things went crazy when she married him. All of her family disowned her. Her dad and brothers vow to kill her if they see her. And guess what? Her dad was an Afghan general during the Soviet occupation. Her crime was for marrying a Christian. Can’t imagine leaving Islam would be like.
 
i was waiting for some of our regular muslim posters to respond to this, but i guess when this topic is brought up, you get silence. thank you sam for your information. that was my next question if saudi arabia actually had public executions.

it’s absolutely shocking that western media doesn’t bring this to light. i think most westerners think that only a small percentage of muslims actually believe this, but from what i’ve gathered this is the majority position.

utterly horrific and evil. when are folks going to expose this dangerous ideology for what it is?

if one were to take a course on islam at harvard divinity school, i wonder how this delicate topic would be explained.
 
Muslims gonna say something like this: it is only applied during the time of war. If you convert and betray your faith in order to aid your enemy, you deserve to die. I think it’s ludicrous.
jen_fla said:
i was waiting for some of our regular muslim posters to respond to this, but i guess when this topic is brought up, you get silence. thank you sam for your information. that was my next question if saudi arabia actually had public executions.

it’s absolutely shocking that western media doesn’t bring this to light. i think most westerners think that only a small percentage of muslims actually believe this, but from what i’ve gathered this is the majority position.

utterly horrific and evil. when are folks going to expose this dangerous ideology for what it is?

if one were to take a course on islam at harvard divinity school, i wonder how this delicate topic would be explained.
Click to expand...
 
MugenOne said:
Muslims gonna say something like this: it is only applied during the time of war. If you convert and betray your faith in order to aid your enemy, you deserve to die. I think it’s ludicrous.
Click to expand...
mmm close. They will say apostacy deserves death if you are a threat to the ummah in general, not only related to war. I don’t know how many of apostates killed by Muhammad and his companions fit in this category.
 
MugenOne said:
Muslims gonna say something like this: it is only applied during the time of war. If you convert and betray your faith in order to aid your enemy, you deserve to die. I think it’s ludicrous.
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from what i’ve read so far the term “being at war” or “in the time of war” has very different meanings for muslims.

isn’t one individual getting up on a soapbox and denouncing his religion in public an “act of war” against islam? … an act of war brought on by words?
 
teancum79 said:
I knew a guy a few years back who left the Islam faith. He did not tell any of his Muslim friends for fear he would be hurt or killed.
Click to expand...
** It is true that the present day Muslims are acting on those false Hadith about killing the apostate. There is no such thing in Islam. If the posters here were honest, they should have brought just one line from the Quran about killing the apostate.

If there is no such thing in the Quran then rest assured that the present day Muslims are misled in this matter. Muhammad taught nothing and acted on nothing except the Quran.

So if there is nothing in the Quran to support the killing of the apostate then please understand that it is all false testamony. If there is war or if the apostate kills some one and runs away and denounces the Islam then he must be killed. He is then not an apostate but a murderer.

If any one will bring something from the Quran then i will reply. Death is a capital punishment and it cannot be awarded only on the basis of the Hadith. Support should be provided from the Quran. And there is nothing in Quran to kill an apotate or to kill an adulterer (unless it be a case of simple rape or rape and death etc).**
 
planten said:
** It is true that the present day Muslims are acting on those false Hadith about killing the apostate. There is no such thing in Islam. If the posters here were honest, they should have brought just one line from the Quran about killing the apostate.

If there is no such thing in the Quran then rest assured that the present day Muslims are misled in this matter. Muhammad taught nothing and acted on nothing except the Quran.**
Click to expand...
:nope: Sorry brother planten, if you do not recognize Hadiths, that means you are not a Muslim, ask any Arabic Muslim cleric in Saudi Arabia (the source of Islam), or in any other country in the Arabian Peninsula and he will tell you the same thing.
 
Planten, in some threads you use hadith to support your theories, and in other threads you deny the hadith. Are you creating your own version of Islam or the hadith are good as long as you think they are?
 
planten said:
It is true that the present day Muslims are acting on those false Hadith about killing the apostate.
Click to expand...
dear brother,if hadiths of bukhari&muslim are false then which is the true hadith?why do you deny hadith i don’t know.all muslim scholars agree that bukhari&muslim contain all sahih hadiths!I guess you are the 1st muslim who deny sahih hadith!what is ur problem i really don’t know.🤷
 
planten said:
** It is true that the present day Muslims are acting on those false Hadith about killing the apostate. There is no such thing in Islam. If the posters here were honest, they should have brought just one line from the Quran about killing the apostate.

If there is no such thing in the Quran then rest assured that the present day Muslims are misled in this matter. Muhammad taught nothing and acted on nothing except the Quran.

So if there is nothing in the Quran to support the killing of the apostate then please understand that it is all false testamony. If there is war or if the apostate kills some one and runs away and denounces the Islam then he must be killed. He is then not an apostate but a murderer.

If any one will bring something from the Quran then i will reply. Death is a capital punishment and it cannot be awarded only on the basis of the Hadith. Support should be provided from the Quran. And there is nothing in Quran to kill an apotate or to kill an adulterer (unless it be a case of simple rape or rape and death etc).**
Click to expand...
Ahhh picking and choosing again i see. Do you, or do you not deny the hadiths?
 
Or is it a case involving the “law of the land” specifically in Saudi Arabia? Yet that country is ruled by Muslims, isn’t it? Therefore Islam should influence the way that country is ruled, should it not?
 
That being said, human nature being what it is, It certainly influences much, too!! 😉
 
planten said:
**** It is true that the present day Muslims are acting on those false Hadith**** about killing the apostate. There is no such thing in Islam. If the posters here were honest, they should have brought just one line from the Quran about killing the apostate.

If there is no such thing in the Quran then rest assured that the present day Muslims are misled in this matter. Muhammad taught nothing and acted on nothing except the Quran.

So if there is nothing in the Quran to support the killing of the apostate then please understand that it is all false testamony. If there is war or if the apostate kills some one and runs away and denounces the Islam then he must be killed. He is then not an apostate but a murderer.

If any one will bring something from the Quran then i will reply. Death is a capital punishment and it cannot be awarded only on the basis of the Hadith. Support should be provided from the Quran. And there is nothing in Quran to kill an apotate or to kill an adulterer (unless it be a case of simple rape or rape and death etc).
Click to expand...
planten are you shia?

are you saying that hadith translated by sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are not authentic?

also to throw in here for those like myself just learning… i have gathered that worldwide, sunnis make up 80 - 90% muslim population and shia 20 - 10%. from all that i have read it is widely accepted that sunnis accept the above two hadiths as authentic.
 
planten said:
** It is true that the present day Muslims are acting on those false Hadith about killing the apostate. There is no such thing in Islam. If the posters here were honest, they should have brought just one line from the Quran about killing the apostate.

If there is no such thing in the Quran then rest assured that the present day Muslims are misled in this matter. Muhammad taught nothing and acted on nothing except the Quran.

So if there is nothing in the Quran to support the killing of the apostate then please understand that it is all false testamony. If there is war or if the apostate kills some one and runs away and denounces the Islam then he must be killed. He is then not an apostate but a murderer.

If any one will bring something from the Quran then i will reply. Death is a capital punishment and it cannot be awarded only on the basis of the Hadith. Support should be provided from the Quran. And there is nothing in Quran to kill an apotate or to kill an adulterer (unless it be a case of simple rape or rape and death etc).**
Click to expand...
What is the Quran telling us here about rejecting Islam?

They wish that you reject faith, as they have rejected (faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad SAW). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliya (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #89)
 
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