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sambos671
Guest
Hear hear! (you have to imagine me stompint a piece of wood with my heal)
Are non-Catholics and Protestants who pulled Catholics away from their Catholic Faith, in danger of going to Hell?
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MrS
Guest
Originally Posted by MrDickerson forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Obviously! They’re in danger of hell either way, being non-Catholic. There is no salvation outside the Church.
One can be part of the body of believers (valid baptism, claiming Christianity).
One can recognize that Truth is not something, it is somebody, and His Name is Jesus Christ.
But if one rejects the visible Church established only by Jesus, and first described in ACTS, one has rejected the means of salvation.
God’s mercy will apply to all those who are ignorant of the Truth, and those incapable of making the choice for Christ (unborn, retarded etc). But justice, not mercy, will apply to those who are presented with the Truth (which includes the means to convey it on earth - only the Catholic Church)… and who then reject it.
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Obviously! They’re in danger of hell either way, being non-Catholic. There is no salvation outside the Church.
The Catholic Church is the body of believers, is the Bride of Christ, and is Christ Himself, the Truth.
One can be part of the body of believers (valid baptism, claiming Christianity).
One can recognize that Truth is not something, it is somebody, and His Name is Jesus Christ.
But if one rejects the visible Church established only by Jesus, and first described in ACTS, one has rejected the means of salvation.
God’s mercy will apply to all those who are ignorant of the Truth, and those incapable of making the choice for Christ (unborn, retarded etc). But justice, not mercy, will apply to those who are presented with the Truth (which includes the means to convey it on earth - only the Catholic Church)… and who then reject it.
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Ronald_E
Guest
What is the difference between justice and mercy? Faith is a gift and some receive the gift and some are not presented with the gift. The gift of faith cannot be rejected because of the overwhelming sense of God’s Love present in that gift. I know this for a fact. That gift of God’s Love is to be spread through acts of love. The responsibility of those who have faith is to present God’s Love to the world. Since God’s ways are not our ways then our way of thinking is imperfect and we cannot apply our understanding of justice and mercy to God’s justice and mercy. We are required to love more deeply and to seek understanding of what it means to love as God loves.
God’s law is in every person’s heart whether or not they are Christians and we are told that if we listen to what is written in our hearts we will be judged through Christ.
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distracted
Guest
They will undoubtedly go to termporary Hell, which i have heard lasts, on average, 40 yrs… (otherwise known as Purgatory)…
and if they reject the Catholic Church knowing it is Christ’s true Church… they probably will go to Hell…
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MrS
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God’s wrath is giving us what we want.
God’s Justice is giving us what we deserve.
God’s Mercy is not giving us what we deserve.
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MrS
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HUH???
Were did you come up with that… especially knowing that after death there is no “time” factor.
On the last day we will face the final judgement… are you implying we will… except for those who still have 40 years to pay??
Hell is hell. It is permanent and eternal. There is nothing temporary about hell.
Same as heaven. Not temporary, but eternal.
Purgatory is a state of being, not a place.
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM
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distracted
Guest
gee… nice to meet someone (finally) who knows everything…
but what i’d like to know is… Where do you get the idea that i (apparently) know nothing?? (Which proves that you don’t know everything after all…
)I guess if i was required to provide absolute, irrefutable proof of what all that i believe, I’d be kinda sunk… but then…
So would you…
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MrS
Guest
Kinda testy there aren’t you??gee… nice to meet someone (finally) who knows everything…
but what i’d like to know is… Where do you get the idea that i (apparently) know nothing?? (Which proves that you don’t know everything after all…
I guess if i was required to provide absolute, irrefutable proof of what all that i believe, I’d be kinda sunk… but then…
So would you…
I took only what you said, and made know reference to your level of Catholicism. Rather, I asked where you came up with your statement.
You did not respond.
But when you make a statement, which is viewed by others - both Catholic and non-Catholic - about a teaching of the Catholic faith you have a responsibility to be correct.
You were incorrect. I therefore questioned both your statement and offered what the Church teaches.
The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don’t know.
your response…??
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distracted
Guest
about what?
if you mean the thing about the avg stay in Purgatory being 40 yrs… that info comes from a saint… not sure i can recall which one but i know it was a saint…
For more info, read the book called Purgatory by Fr. Shoupe…
If that’s what i am incorrect about… you have a responsibility to prove it…
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MrS
Guest
What saint? You made the statement… give the reference or link.about what?
if you mean the thing about the avg stay in Purgatory being 40 yrs… that info comes from a saint… not sure i can recall which one but i know it was a saint…
For more info, read the book called Purgatory by Fr. Shoupe…
If that’s what i am incorrect about… you have a responsibility to prove it…
Here is my link:
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM
I don’t find any reference to “time” in the eternal life… cuz there is none.
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MrS
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Jimmy_B
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Hello MrS,whatever:shrug:
maybe you will remember in 40 years…
I spoke on the phone with someone today and asked this same question, because, when I read it here, it was the first time that I had ever seen this comment. My friend seems to think that he may have read something similar in the past, and reminded me that the reference to “forty” is a common reference used in the Bible, meaning “a long time”…forty years in the desert… forty days and nights….and so on…
I don’t think it is unimaginable that some of us may have to spend a “long time”… maybe even forty years in Purgatory, after all, what is forty years when compared to all of eternity? On the other hand, even, if a Saint did utter this comment, it would fall under personal revelation, which means that if it is not Church doctrine of dogma then we can choose not to believe it, even if a Saint said it. Saints are not infallible, unless they are Pope-Saints and even then, not everything a Pope says is infallible.
Moreover, we know that any private revelation that contradicts Catholic dogma MUST be rejected. This means that the private revelation must not oppose the teachings of the Catholic Church in its Church Councils, its Canon Laws, the Catechism and the Holy Bible as interpreted by the Catholic Church and so on…
Still. I am curious about the source. Where did this come from? Does anyone else here know?
Peace
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Lujack
Guest
Forty years in Purgatory, though, is as if I were to ask you to divide 27 by green, or tell me the sum of a compass plus Abraham Lincoln.
It doesn’t work; Purgatory, like eternity, is timeless.
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Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello Lujack,
“divide 27 by green”
Lol, I like your analogy and though I believe the there is some truth to this, I think that we will still able to tell the difference between forty years and forty seconds when we get to Heaven…
For example, I am assuming that we will still have the ability to count in heaven and I can count to forty in about forty seconds…On the other hand, I can count to about 1,261,440,000 in about forty years, give out take a few thousand……
BTW, 27 divided by green, equals 3.blue…everybody knows that…
Thanks for the post.
Peace
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Jimmy_B
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nbtb1348
Guest
If the answer to the question of this thread is true, then Mother Teresa is in hell. It was recently revealed to the world at large that when she spoke to dying hindus, moslems, etc, she told them to simply believe in their own way of faith, rather than turn to Christ. I find that truly amazing and telltale.
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MrS
Guest
28 divided by green equals 3 blueBTW, 27 divided by green, equals 3.blue…everybody knows that…
Thanks for the post.
Peace
27 divided by green equals 3 teal…
Your answer is totally un-Scriptural… and self interpreted…
Unless you are a newly formed denomination???
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distracted
Guest
thank you so much… I had momentarily forgotten about the fact that we don’t have to believe everthing a saint says… thereby making this whole discussion about the # of yrs in Purg somewhat moot…
even so, I have been in (deep) Purgatory for about 15 yrs now… (long story what all i mean)… We are to begin our Purg on this earth… & when i turned to Jesus in a serious way yrs ago… that began to happen in earnest…
Of course, i have also seen very clearly that people punish us sometimes more (and for a logner period of time) than God seems to… Or is that just my own subjective feelings speaking? I don’t know… all i know is that i have been in “hell” for many yrs… and every time i think i am getting some kind of break, some other weird thing happens… and… well, whatever… So my point is that i have no trouble believing in that 40 yr thing… I am not even the worst of the worst sinner… meaning i haven’t committed some of the bigger sins some people have… never had an abortion, etc… and i have not committed any mortal sins in a long time…have had even the venials sacramentally forgiven… my point being that even after all that… even while i do my utmost to cling to Christ every day/every way… I am still in Purg and i accept the fact that i probably will be for a very long time…That being said, i also say (again) that *a lot of the hell i go through has to do with other people’s sins (against me and not directly against me)… *
sin is what makes this world Hell… (obviously)…
God bless…
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Strevel
Guest
Yes, I did pull people from their faith while i was on my mission. Luckily, I kept an appointment book and wrote them a letter after my mission stating my views now and apologising for my acts.I don’t understand your last paragraph. What do you mean “must be cemented to who they are”? What do you mean when you say “the problem is not the faith, but their relation with it”?
What was not cemented in you when you left the Mormon Faith? What was the problem you had with your relationship with your Mormon Faith?
The above are not “gotcha” questions. I am trying to understand your meaning and a bit of your conversion history in relation to the title of this thread.
It is an ancilary position to this thread. People are pulled from this faith and pulledIT AS WELL.
I believe that it is extremely rare that devout people are pulled by another person’s efforts to leave their original faith and convert to another. (I am not talking here about predatory cults but standard conversion from one religion to another.)
With me it was not a position of being devouted to my faith, but the lame beliefs and wierd things that are believed that are never spoken of outside a group of other Mormons. Then there are the beliefs and practices that are had that are never spoken of outside of the temples. I was devout untill I got into the wierd things that are believed. Then my brain kicked in and said “Nope, this is abnormal” and I left.
As a Mormon, did you every pull someone who was devout away from their religion when you were on your mission?
I love being Catholic and enjoy it. It is useful, has utility and is pragmatic in daily life. It can keep one hones if confession is used correctly as a…sharpening stone… if you will.
Don in Vegas
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