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bjames1728
Guest
Maybe my question should have been better phrased. I was asking about physical punishment specifically. So is Hell a physical place intended for punishing bad behavior with physical punishments (see post #65) that God dictates? Or is it a state of being whose torment is the outcome of rejecting God?
Unfortunately your links seem contradictory on this point. The catholic answers site asks “3. Are the flames Hell literal?” and answers, in short, no. Your EWTN post, on the other hand, gives a priest’s literal account of being escorted to Hell where he sees these flames firsthand. It’s hard for me to follow the logic in a thread like this when there seems to be fundamental amibiguity on this underlying point.
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steve_b
Guest
When Jesus told His listeners this story about the rich man and Lazarus
Luke 16:24
And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Laz′arus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.’
In Context
could this be an existential flame? A real flame? Beats me. Either way, hell is forever. It’s horrible, and people in hell know that it is forever. That alone is incomprehensible. A million years from now, is still now. There is no clock in the afterlife. No yesterday today and tomorrow. It is the eternal now.
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bjames1728
Guest
So in a way you’re saying, it ultimately doesn’t matter, because it’s awful either way. But whether Hell is physical or not, punitive or not, reflects the nature of God and the nature of sin. When we try to understand Hell, I believe we’re really trying to probe the nature of God and our relationship with Him. In that context, teaching Hell as a brutal, punitive torture chamber is counterproductive if it teaches people that God is a vindictive sadist.
The question in the opening post, to my mind, is based on a view of Hell as a physical place like a penal colony. Without addressing that underlying premise, I don’t see how you can answer the stated question.
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steve_b
Guest
I’m saying
We have a savior. There is no need for God to send us a savior if we aren’t saved from something terrible…right?
God gave us free will, therefore He gave us the ability to make choices, good or bad
Dt: 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live, 20 loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice, and cleaving to him; for that means life to you and length of days, that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”
Just as Lucifer and his angels made their choice and own the consequences of their choice, so all humanity has choices as well.
Actions have consequences. And when one dies having chosen death and curses instead of life and blessings
then people go to hell because they chose it by their actions.
They refused to follow the savior and the results of that are incomprehensible
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ffg
Guest
Oh hell.
If ‘most people’ went to heaven, I don’t see much of a need for a Church and it’s urgent need to inform of the truth.
You choose what you know.
If you know sin well, choosing it in knowledge that you are looking at the face of God doesn’t seem like a stretch.
The importance of the Church Militant is clear. Fight for the souls for God.
God guide us and work through us. Let us not get in the way of the importance.
For instance - concluding and teaching ‘most people’ go to heaven.
We simply don’t know, but we know we must work for the Kingdom.
If ‘most people’ went to heaven, I don’t see much of a need for a Church and it’s urgent need to inform of the truth.
You choose what you know.
If you know sin well, choosing it in knowledge that you are looking at the face of God doesn’t seem like a stretch.
The importance of the Church Militant is clear. Fight for the souls for God.
God guide us and work through us. Let us not get in the way of the importance.
For instance - concluding and teaching ‘most people’ go to heaven.
We simply don’t know, but we know we must work for the Kingdom.
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dshix
Guest
For anyone who is interested in a thorough and chilling sermon on Hell, listen to Fr. Ripperger’s talk:
youtube.com/watch?v=3p5krCDgEj8
Block out 40 minutes or listen in the car.
Prepare to be terrified. 
youtube.com/watch?v=3p5krCDgEj8
Block out 40 minutes or listen in the car.
Prepare to be terrified. 
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steve_b
Guest
May 13th coming up, is the 100th anniversary of FatimaFor anyone who is interested in a thorough and chilling sermon on Hell, listen to Fr. Ripperger’s talk:
youtube.com/watch?v=3p5krCDgEj8
Block out 40 minutes or listen in the car.
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HabemusFrancis
Guest
Oh my holy God…
I don’t know what to say after watching Rippergar’s sermon. Hell is not a nice place. C.S. Lewis was way off the mark when he said it was just a place of selfish self exclusion from God.
The damned are thrown there by God and have no means of escape. I might almost want to put the souls out of their misery but God forbids it. C’est la vie
I don’t know what to say after watching Rippergar’s sermon. Hell is not a nice place. C.S. Lewis was way off the mark when he said it was just a place of selfish self exclusion from God.
The damned are thrown there by God and have no means of escape. I might almost want to put the souls out of their misery but God forbids it. C’est la vie
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dshix
Guest
Indeed. It’s pretty terrifying. It has been said that Catholics have the hardest life, and the easiest death. Be thankful that we have the gift of the sacraments and sanctifying grace.
Now if you need some consolation go watch Fr. Ripperger’s talk on Heaven.
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HabemusFrancis
Guest
I hate to say it but it almost seems like the damned walk among us, like there are souls walking around who would go straight to Hell if they died tomorrow.
It sounds wierd, but there are some people (not all too many) who just radiate alienation, its hard to describe. They are usually successful or seem to be doing well but they don’t seem like part of society. Like they don’t really seem connected to the world or interested in connecting with other people and seem to get sort of a joy out of being cruel.
Kind of wierd, but just my two cents
It sounds wierd, but there are some people (not all too many) who just radiate alienation, its hard to describe. They are usually successful or seem to be doing well but they don’t seem like part of society. Like they don’t really seem connected to the world or interested in connecting with other people and seem to get sort of a joy out of being cruel.
Kind of wierd, but just my two cents
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dshix
Guest
This is, of course, true. There are many souls in the world currently in the state of mortal sin.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
Didnt you mean
oh my Holy God have mercy on us poor sinners
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HabemusFrancis
Guest
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
After spending decades ignoring God, here I am in my first Lenten Season, and thanks to God, my whole being has changed. Repent and be saved!
So this has created, as you can imagine, confusion, concern, and cautiousness in my yet to be repented and saved cohort.
They watch and listen very closely to everything I say. If a swear word or cuss slips out, I get ’ well that’s not Christian’. Which causes me a lot of internal joy. They must surely be thinking now ’ what is a Christian’
One guy had absolutely no idea what Good Friday and Easter Sunday are about.
And he went to Sunday School as a kid.All I have to say is you lose, devil. Game over.
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HabemusFrancis
Guest
Lucky you, you were snatched from the clutches of satan.
The more I think about it the rarer death bed conversions are. It is a painful process to realize that you have wronged God and other people for years and to realize you are in need of salvation.
The longer you are steeped in sin the harder and less appealling repentence becomes.
I do wonder what purgatory is like in terms of pain? Maybe for a different topic but I think that even if there is great pain of sense, there is great joy and compassion there as well. I beleive the souls in purgatory are friends with eachother and will the good of those on earth.
I am certain Thomas Aquinas had it wrong when he said that the demons torture the souls in purgatory. I would think they would be out of reach there.
If there is sadness ( there is no hatred or spite) there is sadness at having been wrong for so long, and the one thing to make you happy is out of reach…for now
The more I think about it the rarer death bed conversions are. It is a painful process to realize that you have wronged God and other people for years and to realize you are in need of salvation.
The longer you are steeped in sin the harder and less appealling repentence becomes.
I do wonder what purgatory is like in terms of pain? Maybe for a different topic but I think that even if there is great pain of sense, there is great joy and compassion there as well. I beleive the souls in purgatory are friends with eachother and will the good of those on earth.
I am certain Thomas Aquinas had it wrong when he said that the demons torture the souls in purgatory. I would think they would be out of reach there.
If there is sadness ( there is no hatred or spite) there is sadness at having been wrong for so long, and the one thing to make you happy is out of reach…for now
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dshix
Guest
Did you listen to the talk by Fr. Ripperger? He explained very clearly why it is that the souls in Hell would not be friends. They hate each other. They hate themselves. They can’t even control their own emotions and actions. They constantly flail about, ripping at their own flesh and that of those around them. There is no love, no respite, no respect, no compassion. There is nothing but hate, fury, and agony.
Um, what?
No, St. Thomas Aquinas, the Angelic Doctor, is not wrong. What basis do you have for your opinion?
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Contarini
Guest
Just?
You think “selfish self-exclusion from God” is trivial?
Lewis had a very powerful, serious view of hell. Look at Screwtape Letters, where the demons devour each other (and the damned). Look at the scenes of damnation in That Hideous Strength and The Last Battle. For that matter, look at The Great Divorce.
Why is this Fr. Rippergar such an authority?
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dshix
Guest
He’s just one priest who happens to give good, detailed talks, and he’s orthodox.
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