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walt2000
Guest
Ok, I’m not going to say much. tell me how many of you guys read through the book of revelations.From one end to another.I’m not tring to be smart I just want to know where I stand.
walt
walt
Are there any Catholic theologions that fully understand the last book of the bible ?
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walt2000
Guest
One thing I can say, the catholics are realy enthusiastic about their futures .The prods at least have more intrest in what god has for them .They might be a little wronge, but at least intrested ,and trying .When I show them their at least ,amazed. very disapointing. 
:ehh:
:ehh:
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walt2000
Guest
GOD, will look after you all,In his time. 
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BarbaraTherese
Guest
Hi There FSH…Father Michael Fallon, MSC, an Australian Missionary of the Sacred Heart is a scripture scholar/theologian/author residing in South Australia where I live. Or he was living here last time I checked.
He has written an excellent book on Revelations, reference details below, which I have read along with all his other books. The book on Revations takes each Chapter, breaking it up into a few verses and explains the code of Revelations and the theological meaning then and today. It is a real message of love and hope(as strange as this may sound as interpretations most dire abound incorporating literal translations and inaccurate according to scripture scholars). Revelations is in code and cannot be read literally in many instances. In one column are the verses from Revelations and in the column alongside is Father’s explanation. It is most easy to follow in every way.
You may or may not know that when John wrote Revelations in exile he adopted a unique Christian code oft connected with the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament. This code was developed and adopted and used at that time under the Roman persecution of Christians which is why Revelations is so difficult to understand compared to the other books in the New Testament. Father explains this code in his book although as I understand things the code is still being fully decoded or by now may well have been fully decoded. It is sufficiently decoded to explain the book of Revelations however. I read Father Michael’s book on Revelations many years ago, lent my copy and forgot to whom and it has never been returned. There is a lengthy Introduction to Revelations which really sets the stage as an overview to a read of the rest of the book.
Father Michael is very highly regarded as a scripture scholar of renown.
The Apocalypse: a call to embrace the love that is stronger than death, 2002 (131 pages, RRP $14.00Australian)
Father Michael’s website is on the following link:
http://home.netspeed.com.au/motsh/books.htm
If you have any questions you can email him from a link on the website.
God’s blessing on you and your seeking.
Barb
PS I have just noticed that *Apocolypse *above is dated as 2002. I must have read Father’s book I think about 8-10years ago, so this must be a later edition I think.
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BarbaraTherese
Guest
Hi there Walt2000…puzzleannie
I think. your wronge
the fullness of that Divine Revelation can never be grasped on this earth, or anywhere outside heaven
The question is fullness, I think revelation is put there for us to figure out and understand, as for fullness no man will ever get any book in the bible 100% but let’s try for as high as possible.
WALT
P.S. WOULD YOU GUYS FELL MORE COMFORTABLE IF I LEFT?
Then you guys can agree with your selves.?
I know some of you guy’s probably would.
You may be interested in my Post #244 which I have just posted as may some other Posters in this Thread.
I haven’t been following this thread from commencement but have read a few Posts. There is no growth if we never find something or someone that disagrees with us huh? Your point I thought is a good point! Hang in there Walt!
Barb
South Aussie
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BarbaraTherese
Guest
Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XV1):
“Love without truth is blind and truth without love is "a clanging cymbal” (St. Paul)…
“Love without truth is blind and truth without love is "a clanging cymbal” (St. Paul)…
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spauline
Guest
Dear freesoulHope,
I cannot help but echo your desire that we should understand the Book of Revelation in a better manner than is prevalent in the typical Catholic circles of today. I think that meditation upon the Word of God should be encouraged (however, of course, within the limits of the Church’s teaching!). I believe the CCC addresses that the meditation of the faithful on the content of the Revelation of the Church, both Written and Oral, has served to the furthering of doctrinal development and drawn out deep and beautiful meanings and understanding in the course of the Church’s illumining of the deposit of faith that Christ gave us. I read on Tan’s Father Kramer book that, to paraphrase, “in the last days, men shall come along who will give brilliant and penetrating insights into the Apocalypse.” How then, will the deepest mysteries come to light except that we strive through prayer and love and meditation to contemplate the awesome truths contained in the Revelation of God?
As a side note, one person remarked on this thread that we will never fully understand the Word of God until the New Creation. In one sense that is true, and yet, we should distinguish between ***the ***ultimate *fullness *that is only attained in the beatific vision and New Creation, and the more-or-less fullness that will be attained prior to the very end.
Of the “more-or-less” fullness, we can discern this in the case of the angels. According to some basic Catholic theology, we have that the angels were given a progressive taste of the Revelation and Love of God and His Grace in a process that, once complete, was followed by an irrevocable choice by the angels that were tested. The revelation given to them is conjectured to be the “more-or-less” fullness of God’s Truth, short only of the ultimate fullness, the Beatific Vision. The angels who passed the test went into the Beatific Vision, the angels who failed, because their knowledge was complete, (again, short only of the Beatific Vision) went into eternal punishment.
I think then that the Church recognizes that a similar state exists in the human creation: historically, God’s Revelation and Love (including doctrinal development of the NT deposit) will become “more-or-less” complete, and then the majority of the human race will fall away after that, rendering an unforgivable and irrevocable historic rejection, then leading to the end of the world, after which the Church passes into the *ultimate *fullness of the Redemption, the New Creation and eternal Beatific Vision. One difference, however, between the angels and the human race, is that the angels are given the totality of the experience of God’s Love and Truth prior to thier fall, which, because they have the more-or-less fullness before their test, renders their rejection of God unforgivable, as the CCC seems to indicate, whereas with the human race, man experiences the Revelation and Love of God in stages, as the history unfolds. From this, I think we can infer **TWO **falls for the human race: the First Fall, with Adam and Eve, a fall that is redeemable, and that, after the “more-or-less” fullness of redemption, comes a Second Fall, one that is irredeemable, and hence merits the end of the world.
Anyway, I’m sorry for the diatribe, but the point is, it seems that the Church will attain a “more-or-less” fullness of understanding of the Revelation, including, therefore, the whole of the Scriptures, not just the Apoc, prior to the end of time. This is not to say we don’t have the fullness already in the deposit, but that, as we say with doctrinal development, we will know the full theological and philosophical *implications *of what has been revealed.
This seesm to be what will be the “revealing of the mystery of inquity,” as referred to by St. Paul in 2 thess. 2 and the CCC. I can’t then help but imagine that this "mystery"will involve a spiritual and psychological analysis of the whole of salvation history, even as St. Paul states that iniquity “is [was] already at work.” For if the Church will then recognize that God’s Plan is coming to end, how will this be accept that the Church consider what has gone before us up until then, for is there not a “Plan”?
continued…
I cannot help but echo your desire that we should understand the Book of Revelation in a better manner than is prevalent in the typical Catholic circles of today. I think that meditation upon the Word of God should be encouraged (however, of course, within the limits of the Church’s teaching!). I believe the CCC addresses that the meditation of the faithful on the content of the Revelation of the Church, both Written and Oral, has served to the furthering of doctrinal development and drawn out deep and beautiful meanings and understanding in the course of the Church’s illumining of the deposit of faith that Christ gave us. I read on Tan’s Father Kramer book that, to paraphrase, “in the last days, men shall come along who will give brilliant and penetrating insights into the Apocalypse.” How then, will the deepest mysteries come to light except that we strive through prayer and love and meditation to contemplate the awesome truths contained in the Revelation of God?
As a side note, one person remarked on this thread that we will never fully understand the Word of God until the New Creation. In one sense that is true, and yet, we should distinguish between ***the ***ultimate *fullness *that is only attained in the beatific vision and New Creation, and the more-or-less fullness that will be attained prior to the very end.
Of the “more-or-less” fullness, we can discern this in the case of the angels. According to some basic Catholic theology, we have that the angels were given a progressive taste of the Revelation and Love of God and His Grace in a process that, once complete, was followed by an irrevocable choice by the angels that were tested. The revelation given to them is conjectured to be the “more-or-less” fullness of God’s Truth, short only of the ultimate fullness, the Beatific Vision. The angels who passed the test went into the Beatific Vision, the angels who failed, because their knowledge was complete, (again, short only of the Beatific Vision) went into eternal punishment.
I think then that the Church recognizes that a similar state exists in the human creation: historically, God’s Revelation and Love (including doctrinal development of the NT deposit) will become “more-or-less” complete, and then the majority of the human race will fall away after that, rendering an unforgivable and irrevocable historic rejection, then leading to the end of the world, after which the Church passes into the *ultimate *fullness of the Redemption, the New Creation and eternal Beatific Vision. One difference, however, between the angels and the human race, is that the angels are given the totality of the experience of God’s Love and Truth prior to thier fall, which, because they have the more-or-less fullness before their test, renders their rejection of God unforgivable, as the CCC seems to indicate, whereas with the human race, man experiences the Revelation and Love of God in stages, as the history unfolds. From this, I think we can infer **TWO **falls for the human race: the First Fall, with Adam and Eve, a fall that is redeemable, and that, after the “more-or-less” fullness of redemption, comes a Second Fall, one that is irredeemable, and hence merits the end of the world.
Anyway, I’m sorry for the diatribe, but the point is, it seems that the Church will attain a “more-or-less” fullness of understanding of the Revelation, including, therefore, the whole of the Scriptures, not just the Apoc, prior to the end of time. This is not to say we don’t have the fullness already in the deposit, but that, as we say with doctrinal development, we will know the full theological and philosophical *implications *of what has been revealed.
This seesm to be what will be the “revealing of the mystery of inquity,” as referred to by St. Paul in 2 thess. 2 and the CCC. I can’t then help but imagine that this "mystery"will involve a spiritual and psychological analysis of the whole of salvation history, even as St. Paul states that iniquity “is [was] already at work.” For if the Church will then recognize that God’s Plan is coming to end, how will this be accept that the Church consider what has gone before us up until then, for is there not a “Plan”?
continued…
S
spauline
Guest
continued…
On that note, the one debate appears to be between amill and postmill., that is, between those who would argue that even if doctrinal development will become complete, it will not nearly fully restore the world, that is, there will always be major sin, as opposed to postmill, which argues that when the “more-or-less fullness” of Revelation is complete, it will become more or less efficiaous in an Era of Peace prior to the Great irrevocable apostasy. Unfortunately, I take the postmill view, and so take a lot of flack because most Catholics are amillers. Well, sobeit I guess!
At any rate, sorry for the diatribe, but if you are curious to explore these questions deeper, check out my blog.
GB!
scott
On that note, the one debate appears to be between amill and postmill., that is, between those who would argue that even if doctrinal development will become complete, it will not nearly fully restore the world, that is, there will always be major sin, as opposed to postmill, which argues that when the “more-or-less fullness” of Revelation is complete, it will become more or less efficiaous in an Era of Peace prior to the Great irrevocable apostasy. Unfortunately, I take the postmill view, and so take a lot of flack because most Catholics are amillers. Well, sobeit I guess!
At any rate, sorry for the diatribe, but if you are curious to explore these questions deeper, check out my blog.
GB!
scott
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walt2000
Guest
Wow, now that was a reacton, It’ll take me a few day’s to read up on this stuff It It ,is all is quite intrested ,and thanks for the support , I was getting to think that (catholicity) was at a stand down.or is that a word?
AND IN MY STUDIES I JUST NOW FOUND THAT THE
Remember that bad word 27072 stuff, well I just heard that the brain wave activety is set at 72 mz
That 72 seems to pop up every where.
Another thing the three score and ten is 70, that is one degree of the solar equinox which is 70x365=25,550 thousand years in gematria it work’s to 2555 or 20555
2=wittnessing
0 a space that can be put in,or taken
5=grace,-god’s goodness the firist 5 book’s of the pentatuech
and when you see a number cubed polyhedra like 777 or 666 or 555or333 it means with emphasis on the number.
9
999 is the same thing 27=9+9+9
WALt
AND IN MY STUDIES I JUST NOW FOUND THAT THE
Remember that bad word 27072 stuff, well I just heard that the brain wave activety is set at 72 mz
That 72 seems to pop up every where.
Another thing the three score and ten is 70, that is one degree of the solar equinox which is 70x365=25,550 thousand years in gematria it work’s to 2555 or 20555
2=wittnessing
0 a space that can be put in,or taken
5=grace,-god’s goodness the firist 5 book’s of the pentatuech
and when you see a number cubed polyhedra like 777 or 666 or 555or333 it means with emphasis on the number.
9
999 is the same thing 27=9+9+9
WALt
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walt2000
Guest
Father explains this code in his book although as I understand things the code is still being fully decoded or by now may well have been fully decoded. It is sufficiently decoded to explain the book of Revelations
And I think I have most of this code and no one wants to here of it
Walt
And I think I have most of this code and no one wants to here of it
Walt
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
What father?
What code?
What code?
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walt2000
Guest
You may or may not know that when John wrote Revelations in exile he adopted a code used at that time under the Roman persecution of Christians which is why Revelations is so difficult to understand compared to the other books in the New Testament. Father explains this code in his book although as I understand things the code is still being fully decoded or by now may well have been fully decoded. It is sufficiently decoded to explain the book of Revelations however. I read Father Michael’s book on Revelations many years ago, lent my copy and forgot to whom and it has never been returned. There is a lengthy Introduction to Revelations which really sets the stage as an overview to a read of the rest of the book.
Father Michael is very highly regarded as a scripture scholar of renown.
The Apocalypse: a call to embrace the love that is stronger than death, 2002 (131 pages, RRP $14.00Australian)
Walt
Father Michael is very highly regarded as a scripture scholar of renown.
The Apocalypse: a call to embrace the love that is stronger than death, 2002 (131 pages, RRP $14.00Australian)
Walt
B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
Quoting Barb
Possibly quoting Walt?
B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
See my post #243 Joey… what father and what code may become clearer there …
The code to which I refer operative in Revelations can in many places be ‘decoded’ through reading the Book of Daniel and especially Daniel’s visions. However, Father outlines the whole deal and translation of code in his book.
General comment:
At the time of the Roman persecutions of Christians, they began to put Christian teaching into code and not necessarily always numerical code, so that when Roman spies infiltrated Christian communities, they could not understand what was being taught or spoken about…at around this time the fish symbol began to be used to identify oneself as Christain…disclaimer: I have a shocking memory and no yelling at me if I’ve got something wrong:crying: . Buy the book, not expensive,or send an email off to Father Michael Fallon on his website which is given on my post #243 and I know Father will only be too happy to set things straight!
…and amend my inaccuracies if any
Any confusions my post #243 should clarify.
Send regards warm regards from bonnie Sth. Aussie…Barb
Sth. Aust.
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
That sounds very interesting.
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freesoulhope
Guest
Joey, what has cuaght your attention! share with me, please
share with me, please
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
See post number 254.Joey, what has cuaght your attention!
My curiosity is piqued enough to purchase the book.
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LeahInancsi
Guest
That’s cute, Joey. It will probably take him longer to find post #254, than to read the book.
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BarbaraTherese
Guest
I dont think you will be disappointed at all Joey. Father has also written commentaries on all four Gospels which are excellent companions for Gospels at Mass for one. I hope Father Michael Fallon will live long enough to write commentaries on every book in The Bible. Well I can hope!
With Father Michael as a companion in reading The Gospels and Revelations, he opened a whole new world of understanding for me and from the perspective of a highly respected Scriputre Scholar and I am pretty sure he is also a theologian. But do got to his website and have a browse.
Happy reading…I’m glad I ‘won’ one person!
Barb
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freesoulhope
Guest
Please give me a link to his web site.I dont think you will be disappointed at all Joey. Father has also written commentaries on all four Gospels which are excellent companions for Gospels at Mass for one. I hope Father Michael Fallon will live long enough to write commentaries on every book in The Bible. Well I can hope!
With Father Michael as a companion in reading The Gospels and Revelations, he opened a whole new world of understanding for me and from the perspective of a highly respected Scriputre Scholar and I am pretty sure he is also a theologian. But do got to his website and have a browse.
Happy reading…I’m glad I ‘won’ one person!
Barb
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