Are there any Catholic theologions that fully understand the last book of the bible ?

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walt2000 said:

-----------------------------THUNDER NO.4-------------------------------------------
-----------------------------THE EARTH Re.12-15-----------------------------------
7. THE GRAPE VINTAGE Re.14/18--------------------------------------------​

  1. SON OF MAN WITH CLOUD Re.14/14------------------------------------
  1. THE BLESSED Re.14/13 CHRISTIAN’S-----------------------------------
  1. THREE ANGEL MESSENGERS, ARE THUNDER NO.5----------- (,WAIT) FOR IT, THE NEXT THUNDER THE WORD ON EARTH
    NO.5 IN THIS THREAD IS THE BLESSED-----------------------------------
  1. BEAST OUT OF THE EARTH Re.13/11—4=EARTH------------------
  1. BEAST OUT OF THE SEA Re.13/1-----------------------------------------
  1. THE DRAGON,THE WOMAN ,THE CHILD Re.12/1------------------
See how the numbers fit.in the right spot vertically,through out the other thunders . well when you line them up horizontally they also fit.and they start with a WHITE HORSE AND END WITH A WHITE HORSE.walt2000
Click to expand...
 
I dotn want to prove you wrong, and I dont understand the chart neither.
 
YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND I WANT YOU TO PROVE ME WRONG
walt2000 ,after I am finished.IT is for my benefit not yours BUT AFTER I AM FINISHED GIVING YOU ALL I GOT ON REVELATIONS
 
walt2000 said:

-----------------------------THUNDER NO.4-------------------------------------------
-----------------------------THE EARTH Re.12-15-----------------------------------
7. THE GRAPE VINTAGE Re.14/18--------------------------------------------​

  1. SON OF MAN WITH CLOUD Re.14/14------------------------------------
  1. THE BLESSED Re.14/13 CHRISTIAN’S-----------------------------------
  1. THREE ANGEL MESSENGERS, ARE THUNDER NO.5----------- (,WAIT) FOR IT, THE NEXT THUNDER THE WORD ON EARTH
  1. BEAST OUT OF THE EARTH Re.13/11—4=EARTH------------------
  1. BEAST OUT OF THE SEA Re.13/1-----------------------------------------
  1. THE DRAGON,THE WOMAN ,THE CHILD Re.12/1------------------
See how the numbers fit.in the right spot vertically,through out the other thunders . well when you line them up horizontally they also fit.and they start with a WHITE HORSE AND END WITH A WHITE HORSE.walt2000
Click to expand...
I need you to explain me that. please.

and u did sent me your chart to my email some weeks ago
 
And you can not see the reputation of events accruing, as the thunders progress from thunder 1 to thunder 4 repeating over and over again. you must be kidding me, I know it is April fools day and all that ,walt2000
 

------------------------------------------THUNDER NO.5--------------------------------------------------NO.5 IS THE NUMBER OF CHRISTS WORD-----------
--------------------THE EARTH AND IS A ADJUNCT TO----------------------
-----------------------------------------THUNDER NO.4-------------------------------
--------------------IT IS A BRACKETED PART OF THUNDER NO.4------
--------------------SHOWING EMPHASES ON THE WORD
---------------------------------------Re.14/6-15/5--------------------------------------​

NO.7 IN HEAVEN Re.15/1---------------------------------------------------------​

THE WINE PRESS remember ,the grape vintage in thunder no.4----same spot horizontally.-but you don’t see that----------------------------​

NO.6 SUN OF MAN AND SICKLE ------NO.OF MAN---------------------​

NO.5 -3rd ANGEL DO NOT WORSHIP THE BEAST --------------------​

NO.4 -2nd ANGEL BABYLON ----------------------------------------------------​

NO.3 -HAS FALLEN Re.14/8------------------------------------------------------​

NO.2 -1st. ANGEL PREACHING TO--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NO.1 -THE WORLD Re.14/6-------------------------------------------------------​

can you see the progression from bottom to the top.--------------------
with the wine press and then the winner.walt2000-------------------------​

I GUESS YOU CAN NOT SEE THAT------------------------------------------
walt2000 if you do not, your getting couched.
 

----------------------------THUNDER NO.6 MAN------------------------------------
----------------------------------Re,15/6-16----------------------------------------------​

VIAL NO.7 IT IS DONE IN HEAVEN Re.15/6-16---------------------------​

THE BLESSED, SAME SPOT AS WINE PRESS,AND SEALED----​

VIAL NO.6 THE GREAT RIVER Re.16/12 ,LOOK AT SAME SPOT THUNDER NO.6 GREAT RIVER Re.9/14 YOU CAN’T SEE THAT I GUESS.-------------------------------------------------------------------------​

VIAL NO.5 DARKNESS ON THE BREAST NO.5 IS THE WORD------​

VIAL NO.4 SUN,HEAT,BURN MEN Re.16/8---------------------------------​

VIAL NO.3 BLOOD ON THE WATER ,Re.16./4,LOOK TO WORMWOOD IN WATER.Re.8/10----------------------------------------------​

VIAL NO.2 BLOOD ON THE SEA .Re.16/3 ,LOOK TO BURNING MOUNTAIN CAST IN TO THE SEA Re.8/8-----------------------------------​

VIAL NO.1 BOILS ON THE BEAST Re.16/2---------------------------------​

I SUPPOSE YOU HAVE TROUBLE WITH THE UP WARD----------- PROGRESSION OF THIS ,TO A VICTORY AT THE TOP.--------------
WALT2000
 

-------------------------THE DIVINE ,THUNDER NO.7---------------------------
----------------------------VICTORY AT LAST Re.17-20--------------------------​

  1. THE WHITE HORSE, WINNER,CROWNS RE.19/11 SEVEN---- THUNDERS END WITH A WHITE HORSE ,AS YOU KNOW-------- THEY STARTED WITH A WHITE HORSE-Re.6/1-------------------------

WINE PRESS ,REMEMBER WINE PRESS IN THUNDER NO.5----​

6.MAKE WAR Re.19/11 REM BER TWO GREAT RIVERS Re.9/14 AND Re.16/12,AND TWO EARTH QUAKES Re.6/12 AND---- Re.11/13-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

5.COME UP MY PEOPLE Re.18/4-Re.19/9 LOOK AT COME UP----- MY PEOPLE Re.11/12 THUNDER NO.7 AND THUNDER NO.3-​

4&3 BABYLON HAS FALLEN Re.18/1,COM PAIR TO BABYLON HAS FALLEN Re.14/8 HAY THEY ALSO LINE UP ----------------------​

2&1 MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT WHORE Re.17/1 LINE UP TO 1 ST. ANGEL PREACHING TO THE WORLD Re.17/1--------​

THE DIVINE, ALL LINE UP AT THE START OF SEVEN THUNDERS------------------------------------------------------------
START WHITE HORSE END Re.6/1,CHRIST IS THE WINNER WHITE HORSE END Re.19/11.-------THERE ARE YOUR SEVEN THUNDERS------ REM BER READ FROM BOTTOM---------------- UP.VICTORY AT THE TOP.------------------------------------------------------
WALT2000 THE REST IS EASY IF YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU IN BAD SHAPE.walt2000
can you find all that in revelations with out using another book in the bible or not ,now explain the revelations 10.and use revelations 22/18 as the only rule.walt2000
 
walt2000 said:

-----------------------------THUNDER NO.4-------------------------------------------
-----------------------------THE EARTH Re.12-15-----------------------------------
7. THE GRAPE VINTAGE Re.14/18--------------------------------------------​

  1. SON OF MAN WITH CLOUD Re.14/14------------------------------------
  1. THE BLESSED Re.14/13 CHRISTIAN’S-----------------------------------
  1. THREE ANGEL MESSENGERS, ARE THUNDER NO.5----------- (,WAIT) FOR IT, THE NEXT THUNDER THE WORD ON EARTH
  1. BEAST OUT OF THE EARTH Re.13/11—4=EARTH------------------
  1. BEAST OUT OF THE SEA Re.13/1-----------------------------------------
  1. THE DRAGON,THE WOMAN ,THE CHILD Re.12/1------------------
See how the numbers fit.in the right spot vertically,through out the other thunders . well when you line them up horizontally they also fit.and they start with a WHITE HORSE AND END WITH A WHITE HORSE.walt2000
Click to expand...
Let me see, Is that a catholic explanation that is under the church guidance or not?

well look throught the whole New testament, the letters and epistles were given to an especific primitive church that existed.
The seven churches of Asia were being killed by the roman empire.

Imagine you are a soldier and you are at the US training for the war, its different your situation of a soldier that is in Bagdad fighting already.

Well those churhces were in the main field of the fight agaisnt the pagan roman empire they were beign anihiladed and everyone on those churches was becoming martyrs for Christ.

Now, Why would John write to them especificly about the upcoming future of the 21 centurys , while they are all becoming martyrs? It make no sense.

Now what Do you think is the meaning of Babylone for this times?

Remeber Babylone is suposed to be a Pagan place that is huge and that control a lot.

On the first epistle of Peter 5,13 you will see that Peter calls The Roman Empire as Babylone. Its a name for the Pagan Roman Empire.

Read Revelations like that and you will understand everything dispite the harsh liturgical langage that it has.
 
jimmy85 said:
Remeber Babylone is suposed to be a Pagan place that is huge and that control a lot.

On the first epistle of Peter 5,13 you will see that Peter calls The Roman Empire as Babylone. Its a name for the Pagan Roman Empire.
Click to expand...
If we read the history of how Rome covnerted to Christianism we will realize that the martyrs were an important role for its covnertion. People watched the example of the martyrs they feared nothing not even death nor punishment from the pagans. and evertime more and more pagans converted to christianism dispite they could be killed.

This chruch that we have now, is the fruit of the blood of the martyrs. they established it. and they won the struggle with Christ.
 
I have been away for a while ,well ,i’m .I am now back .

If we read the history of how Rome covnerted to Christianism we will realize that the martyrs were an important role for its covnertion. People watched the example of the martyrs they feared nothing not even death nor punishment from the pagans. and evertime more and more pagans converted to christianism dispite they could be killed.

This chruch that we have now, is the fruit of the blood of the martyrs. they established it. and they won the struggle with Christ.

Now read revelations 22/18
walt2000
 
For a convincing, insightful interpretation of the Book of Revelations,
I highly recommend ‘The Book of Destiny’ by Rev. Herman Bernard Kramer. 👍
 
Good_Fella said:
For a convincing, insightful interpretation of the Book of Revelations,
I highly recommend ‘The Book of Destiny’ by Rev. Herman Bernard Kramer. 👍
Click to expand...
Yes, I think that, largely, Fr. Kramer has good insights. But I don’t think he’s completely with the ball game. for one, he is inconsistent in his interpretations of the Trumpets. More specifically, he sees the Trumpets up to and including number five as spiritual crises, but then, in the sixth, he sees it literally, that is, that a third of humanity will literally die (physically).

This shouldn’t be. Physical death is not the issue. *Spiritual *death is. hence, with this sense, he fails to see that on a spiritual level, we have already traversed the sixth trumpet, which, from a spiritual standpoint, would be the supernatural death of the Enlightenment. Further, he takes the futurist position in regards to the Two Witnesses and the Beast of Revelation. He should back up and use more partial allegory. In that vein, the Two Witnesses are not Enoch and Elijah in their primary sense, but are rather Scripture and Tradition, and that the entire discourse of Rev 11 concerns the mystery of ecclesiology and the future reunion of Christians. Also, we do not need a literal Antichrist to have the beast. The beast and false prophet are already here in a a metaphorical sense.

Finally, his last and significant problem is that he fails to recognize multi-dimensionality, so that he sees it as absolute chronology. hence, his insistence on a futurist interp of Revelation 12, when, clearly, Revelation 12 and the conglomerate set of scenes with the dragon should take a step back and look at the whole of salvation history, instead of assuming that everything taking place in Revelation 12 is exclusively happening at the very end of the world.
 
Your objections and interpretations are also insightful and convincing. 😉
 

Originally Posted by walt2000
-----------------------------THUNDER NO.4-------------------------------------------
-----------------------------THE EARTH Re.12-15-----------------------------------
7. THE GRAPE VINTAGE Re.14/18--------------------------------------------​

  1. SON OF MAN WITH CLOUD Re.14/14------------------------------------
  1. THE BLESSED Re.14/13 CHRISTIAN’S-----------------------------------
  1. THREE ANGEL MESSENGERS, ARE THUNDER NO.5----------- (,WAIT) FOR IT, THE NEXT THUNDER THE WORD ON EARTH
    NO.5 IN THIS THREAD IS THE BLESSED-----------------------------------
  1. BEAST OUT OF THE EARTH Re.13/11—4=EARTH------------------
  1. BEAST OUT OF THE SEA Re.13/1-----------------------------------------
  1. THE DRAGON,THE WOMAN ,THE CHILD Re.12/1------------------
See how the numbers fit.in the right spot vertically,through out the other thunders . well when you line them up horizontally they also fit.and they start with a WHITE HORSE AND END WITH A WHITE HORSE.walt2000

Christ comes to win and then wins his victory.
Thunder 4 ,Earth
Embedded in the Earth victory,( is the The Word), thunder no.5 as it should be .The effects on the word of God, on the Earth ,at the time of Christ.and his first and second coming.Walt
 
Spauline, no sarcasm intended. I respect the different schools of thought
concerning the interpretation of the Apocalypse, except for Hal Lindsay
kind of stuff. I, too, have my doubts about a particular future anti-christ,
and I don’t believe that Enoch and Elijah will return in the flesh as the
two witnesses. I have wondered whether John is referring to Peter and Paul,
actually, before their martyrdom which is now history. Concerning time, I view
the Book as not progressing in a linear sequential course. There seems
to be a timeless quality about it, since it is a (cryptic) summation of the eternal
spiritual truths pieced together throughout the course of the Old and New
Testaments. Does that make sense? 🤷
 
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