Are we too easy on suicide victims?

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Ben_Sinner said:
I understand what you are all saying.

I don’t necessarily agree with it and still stick by my argument, but I understand.

For some, the fear of hell may work. For others, it may make things worse.
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I agree with all of your points completely.
 
DeniseNY said:
As I said in my prior post, no one here is saying suicide is A-ok. Those of us who are not suicidal get that it’s against nature and understand the sinfulness of it. But we get it, because unlike people who are suicidal, we are able to think rationally.
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I didn’t accuse anybody of saying suicide is A-ok. Let’s try to stay away from making stuff up.

You say you get it. Well, I honestly don’t think you do. Here’s why: From the very words you yourself said: “…unlike people who are suicidal, we are able to think rationally.”

How do you know that every person who is suicidal is not able to think rationally?

You are presuming that every suicidal person is not able to think rationally. How can you know that? Even if you have direct experience of being suicidal, your experience is not everybody’s.

Suicidal people are rational enough to plan their suicides. Suicidal people are sometimes talked out of suicide. This means they are at least in some cases, rational.

Saying that the knowledge that suicide is a mortal sin is never a deterrent is absolutely ridiculous. Did you ever consider that if somebody DOESN’T believe it’s a mortal sin, that might increase their suicide chance? I’m not saying don’t be gentle. I’m not saying don’t be tactful. I’m not saying we have to scream MORTAL SIN every 2 seconds. I’m not even saying we have to treat every case alike and go out of our way to tell every person who’s depressed that suicide is a mortal sin. I AM saying that people like you are sweeping essential information under the rug. Essential information that everybody should have. And that everybody deserves to have, and needs to have.
 
I’m concerned that this whole discussion is taking the focus off yourself and your own needs and putting it on other people. Your intrusive thoughts sound like they are causing pain and difficulty, and it takes willpower to stay alive (as you’ve described it).

I read through the pages but don’t know if you’ve discussed your treatment in detail. My recommendation would be to see a priest and discuss these issues, and see your doctors and discuss medication and need for additional therapy, as appropriate. This looks to me like it is a combined spiritual/psychological dilemma.

That the fear of hell motivates you to stay alive is a concern. On the one hand it’s worked, and it’s a great thing you are still alive. On the other hand one would hope you could see your value to God and the Catholic community, and feel better about yourself. I think speaking to a priest and medical expert(s) are a good idea.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I might get heat for this, but I am concerned that people blow off the gravity of those who commit suicide too easy by saying: "well, they were pretty psychologically distressed, so they won’t go to hell for it."

I understand this as a way to keep hope and console those who have had a loved one commit this act…but I think you are creating another problem with this line of thinking.

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I have been wanting to respond to your post for a while now, but couldn’t due to being away from a computer. I understand completely where you are coming from in this, you will have to never mind the posters who got adamant about stuff after you posted this. People are genuinely afraid of topics like this because they expose a lot. It is a deep issue. Most people do not want to talk about it. They shut it down before it goes anywhere…
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My answer for you is this:    The catechism, the part you quoted, is not meant for the people who are suicidal (their condition is different) but it is written for those who have either experienced people, loved ones, who are, or who have gone through with it.   It is not meant to be taken in the way you presented, although I can see where it can almost seem to make one predisposed to give into that temptation.   BUT ITS NOT written for those, it is written for those who do not or have witnessed and become distressed by someone else, usually a loved one with this type of situation.
I really hope that makes it clear to you. The Catechism is a guide. I agree with you that it can be taken the wrong way… and I saw this YEARS ago when I first read it, I thought the same thoughts, that it was too lax and that it actually could CAUSE suicides as in giving some sort of excuse. But you have to remember that because it is written as a guide, ALL life situations cannot be properly addressed in and by it, though it tries. This is one of the reasons why there is a SECOND catechism,… (there was the first one written in the late 1800’s I think it was… This one that you quote is a recent one.) The bishops and cardinals and other officials are trying to address everything while being concise as possible. They wanted to make a second one to be more clear. (Not sure if they succeeded, but that’s not my gig to judge, just an opinion- some things are better, it seems. Got to give credit for that.)

I want to make clear those passages you quote are for the loved ones of those who have passed via suicide or are suicidal, NOT for those who are considering suicide or suffering from temptations. It is noted also that there is a dire warning for those considering suicide. Even in Holy Scripture, we are told not to tempt God. Just obey and be humble! Ok? You tell those intrusive thoughts that you want to obey God, not your feelings. You can’t know the reasons you are here, or the reasons for your suffering, but God does. Leave it up to Him to decide. Then again, with OCD, that might not be the way to handle those thoughts. (Its different)
I hope that you speak to a priest about your temptations... they are from Satan, no doubt. Don't be prideful and handle that alone, ok? Ask some nuns or monks to keep you in their prayers. Do this in person, so that they get to know you a little and your troubles. This is important. Don't fool around with it. Get prayer support. It might also help to fast from something as well. And find a good knowledgeable priest. Pray to God to find one to help you.
 
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