Are you offended/disturbed by female clergy in Protestantism?

[Lutheranteach]

Nope the Catholic Church is not poorer. Your church is poorer for having gone against Christ’s wishes.

I would question the holiness factor as well considering that she is going against Christ’s wishes.

So on both counts, thank goodness for the Catholic Church.

This is where people get it so wrong. They somehow think that the priesthood is a right. It isn’t. It is God’s choice and it was God’s choice to call only men. To my mind this is nothing more than pride and disobedience.

The first time I saw a priestess I felt ill.

And another thing, what if all priestesses were big fat and grotesquely ugly? I wonder if you would you still think it wonderful to have priestesses in your church.

Yes…I would, and I do. As for the clothes in general. I look at it the same way I would a woman wearing a police uniform. It’s the clothes of the job. Nothing more. Nothing less. I don’t believe for one moment that God has in mind for only men to be priests or pastors. Perhaps you felt ill because you fear women having any type of authority.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes…I would, and I do. As for the clothes in general. I look at it the same way I would a woman wearing a police uniform. It’s the clothes of the job. Nothing more. Nothing less. I don’t believe for one moment that God has in mind for only men to be priests or pastors. Perhaps you felt ill because you fear women having any type of authority.

This demonstrates an impoverished understanding of the Catholic priesthood.

Now, as I’ve stated before, a Protestant pastor who serves as a counselor, preacher, manager of a church, is ONTOLOGICALLY different from a priest.

Thus, a woman can certainly do all the things a Lutheran minister does.

But a Catholic priest is not what he does; it’s who he is, ontologically.

At his ordination, the universe is changed forever.

This does not happen when a Lutheran minister is “anointed”.

 

[beafedor]

Jesus was a man. The Apostles that he appointed for Ministry were 12 men. St Paul, with his dramatic conversion and authorship of apostolic letters that have shaped Christian theology was a man. The Church Fathers were men. My Pope is a man, my Bishop is a man and my Parish Priest is a man. Enough said.

 

[Cat]

I have a problem with those who say “It doesn’t matter to me because I’m not Protestant, and it doesn’t matter what they do.”

Baptized Protestants are Christians, and therefore, are our brothers and sisters in Christ. So what they do DOES matter to Catholics. It affects the Church Universal (the holy catholic church).

Ordaining women to the pastorate perpetuates a brokenness, a disorder, a wrongful thing, that hurts our witness to Christ in this world.

Many of us have relatives and friends who are Protestant, and so what they do matters to us.

It is like walking a gauntlet to watch our relatives and friends languish under incorrect teaching (e.g., women clergy), demonstrate constant tolerance for these teachings and practices, and at the same time, always seek opportunities to evangelize and persuade them to come home to the Church that Jesus Christ Himself founded.

All too often, our well-meaning attempts at Christian witness result in conflict and hurt feelings. But how can we continue to sit back and smile and say nothing? Is that love? What will Christ say to us at our judgement–“Why didn’t you tell your mother, your father, your sisters and brothers, your children, your spouse? Why did you keep silent about My Church?”

Many, many Protestants who are over 50 year old grew up under the teaching that ordaining a woman to the pastorate is non-Biblical. But now, because there are so few males entering the pastorate and because women have insisted upon a “right” that they perceive they deserve, women pastors have become commonplace.

Many Protestants, including those in the mainline denominations, still believe in their heart of hearts that ordaining women to the pastorate is somehow “disordered,” but lacking the theological knowledge, they don’t DARE speak this in public because of the reaction that they know would happen. They would be castigated for their old-fashioned beliefs, and the supporters of women clergy would hit them with a barrage of twisted theology proving the Christ supported the ordaining of women to the pastorate.

Besides, many of these Protestants have no choice. There are few male pastors available. If they wish to continue attending their church, the place where all their friends are, the place where they grew up and got confirmed and taught Sunday school and sang in the choir and got married and buried their dear ones, they will suck it up and smile and put up with the woman pastor. After all, most of the women pastors are definitely holy, lovely people with a lot of smarts and good organizational skills. In fact, many of the women pastors are better than the men when it comes to pastoral skills.

But that doesn’t make it right. And many Protestants know it, but they don’t see a way out other than quitting their denomination. And just as Catholics are loyal to their Church, Protestants are often loyal to theirs. It’s hard to church hop. And to many Protestants, the Catholic Church is simply not an alternative. To them, Catholicism is tantamount to paganism.

These comments are not just my own meanderings. I speak from personal knowledge and experience. My darling father-in-law and mother-in-law are in the United Methodist Church, where for many years, women pastors have been common. They don’t agree with it. They were raised to believe that the Bible teaches that ordaining women to the pastorate is not proper. They still believe that. But they have sat under women pastors for many years now, and they don’t like it. But they have no choice. Interestingly, they have spent more and more time attending Catholic Bible studies and seminars, listening to Catholic radio and television, and reading Catholic books. They are attending Father Corapi’s talk in March at NIU here in Illinois. I know for a fact that one of the reasons they are looking into Catholicism is because they want to escape from all the incorrectness of the Methodist Church.

 

[Alex2008]

Allow me to shake the forum up a bit.

I have a friend who is a cradle-catholic and after I met him (in my first priestly assignment) he also told me he was a “psychic.” After hearing him state that, I rolled my eyes and said internally: “yeah sure.” But after knowing him for many years, I am not so negative about that term anymore.

One thing he told me in the beginning, was that he saw all validly ordained priests as having red auras about them with a slight arrow “pointing up at the top of the head.” Again I said “yeah sure.” Many years later, after leaving active ministry, I happened to be at a meeting for my job. In the lobby of the hotel I was staying at, a “psychic fair” was going on and a young man was taking what he called “aura” pictures. On a lark I had him take my picture and when he handed it to me, I gasped, I had a red aura with a slight arrow pointing up from my head.

Later that year, I showed the picture to my friend and asked if that was what he was seeing with priests…he smiled and said yes. Now here’s the kicker, he said no-other clergy (protestant) have those aura, not men, not women. In his mind (and I agree with him), those who separated from the Church, cut themselves off from valid ordination and thus have not the God-given power to celebrate the sacraments.

So you can think what you wish about this, but the whole thing about psychics gives me pause. And I am the first to say that most of the so-called “psychics” are charlatans (my Friend also says this), but I believe there are ones like my friend…who does not proclaim this to many and often after hearing God’s word at Holy Mass will mention something of importance to friends…who actually may have a different “God-given” talent.

In the meantime, my Wife is Anglican and her Church has a female vicar. I am sorry to say that this church has more gossiping, backbiting, and nastiness going on than many others I have seen…and unfortunately much of it starts with her. Then again no-one is perfect and ministry is REALLY HARD WORK, I pray that God will bring us all back into true Catholic communion soon!

 

[Cat]

It is worth noticing that many of the Protestant denominations that ordain women are also actively and proudly pro-choice (pro-abortion rights). The United Methodist Church is an example, along with several Lutheran synods, the Episcopalians, and the notorious United Church of Christ. The leadership of the Reformed denominations is wishy-washy when it comes to speaking out against abortion, although officially, the denominations are still pro-life.

Also, many of these same “mainline” denominations are actively supportive of open homosexuality, and tout their “inclusiveness” in not only welcoming openly-gay people, but also in welcoming practicing homosexuals into the pulpit as their pastors. Many of the mainline denominations also fully support homosexual marriage, and several of these denominations have performed homosexual “weddings” in violation of the laws.
Again, the Reformed denoms are wishy-washy, often speaking in confusing language about the issue of homosexual practice and marriage.

The exceptions are the Pentecostal denominations, e.g., the Assemblies of God. These denominations ordain women, but are, in writing anyway, pro-life. Also, they continue to teach that active homosexuality is sinful.

But many of the mainline denominations that ordain women are neck-deep in sinful teachings and practices.

These practices were not always accepted in these denominations. The mainline denominations started out Biblical. It is difficult to say when they began to cross over into teaching and encouraging outright sin. I know that when I was a teenager in the 1960s, many of the mainline churches bought into liberal theology; e.g., Jesus was just a good man, Jesus didn’t literally rise from the dead, it is acceptable to pray to all gods, including female goddesses, etc.

IMO, it becomes impossible to accept any of the mainline teachings, including the teaching of ordaining women to the pastorate, as long as they encourage homosexuals to express their love and celebrate their wedding in their church sanctuaries, and their leaders and members march in the pro-abortion rallies brandishing coat hangers and waving signs that say “Abortion Rights.”

 

[1234]

Jesus was a man. The Apostles that he appointed for Ministry were 12 men. St Paul, with his dramatic conversion and authorship of apostolic letters that have shaped Christian theology was a man. The Church Fathers were men. My Pope is a man, my Bishop is a man and my Parish Priest is a man. Enough said.

Your parish priest* is *a man, when you can find him. Good luck.

What non-Catholics do and whom they ordain should be no concern to Catholics. They have enough problems on their hands without concerning themselves with other denominations, who almost universally, broke away from the Catholic church centuries ago.

 

[PRmerger]

YWhat non-Catholics do and whom they ordain should be no concern to Catholics. They have enough problems.

With all due respect, 1234, Catholicism is big enough to address this issue, as well as all the other topics of concern being discussed on the CAFs.

 

[Radiowave]

…it gave me the chills.

I am offended by all religious garb.

 

[PRmerger]

I am offended by all religious garb.

What is offensive to you about “religious garb”?

And what, in your opinion, constitutes “religious garb”?

 

[beafedor]

Your parish priest* is *a man, when you can find him. Good luck.

What non-Catholics do and whom they ordain should be no concern to Catholics. They have enough problems on their hands without concerning themselves with other denominations, who almost universally, broke away from the Catholic church centuries ago.

Thanks for your reaction. I do feel concerned by what happens around me and around the world. I am not an isolated person whose actions have no consequences on others and others’ actions have no consequences on my life. The stance that many of those churches take is anti family, pro individualistic and pro culture of death. They thank God for abortion, they revere homosexuality etc… and trick their followers into believing that there’s proof in Scripture for those beliefs. The Bible is my book too. My Bible doesn’t establish a female priesthood nor does it encourage abortion, same sex unions nor euthanasia. You see, I also claim the name Christian and as such yes it is bothering me when I hear a “Christian priestess” teach that Naomi and Ruth were lesbians and Jesus healed the teenage male sex slave of the roman centurion not simply the centurion servant, that God is pro free will, therefore God is “pro-choice”… They twist my Bible and they make a fool of my God.

 

[benidict]

Allow me to shake the forum up a bit.

I have a friend who is a cradle-catholic and after I met him (in my first priestly assignment) he also told me he was a “psychic.” After hearing him state that, I rolled my eyes and said internally: “yeah sure.” But after knowing him for many years, I am not so negative about that term anymore.

One thing he told me in the beginning, was that he saw all validly ordained priests as having red auras about them with a slight arrow “pointing up at the top of the head.” Again I said “yeah sure.” Many years later, after leaving active ministry, I happened to be at a meeting for my job. In the lobby of the hotel I was staying at, a “psychic fair” was going on and a young man was taking what he called “aura” pictures. On a lark I had him take my picture and when he handed it to me, I gasped, I had a red aura with a slight arrow pointing up from my head.

Later that year, I showed the picture to my friend and asked if that was what he was seeing with priests…he smiled and said yes. Now here’s the kicker, he said no-other clergy (protestant) have those aura, not men, not women. In his mind (and I agree with him), those who separated from the Church, cut themselves off from valid ordination and thus have not the God-given power to celebrate the sacraments.

So you can think what you wish about this, but the whole thing about psychics gives me pause. And I am the first to say that most of the so-called “psychics” are charlatans (my Friend also says this), but I believe there are ones like my friend…who does not proclaim this to many and often after hearing God’s word at Holy Mass will mention something of importance to friends…who actually may have a different “God-given” talent.

In the meantime, my Wife is Anglican and her Church has a female vicar. I am sorry to say that this church has more gossiping, backbiting, and nastiness going on than many others I have seen…and unfortunately much of it starts with her. Then again no-one is perfect and ministry is REALLY HARD WORK, I pray that God will bring us all back into true Catholic communion soon!

Hi Alex. as a Catholic, and a Lay student of Kabbalah. I happen to believe auras are real. God bless. peace

 

[JohnnyReb]

It is worth noticing that many of the Protestant denominations that ordain women are also actively and proudly pro-choice (pro-abortion rights). The United Methodist Church is an example, along with several Lutheran synods, the Episcopalians, and the notorious United Church of Christ. The leadership of the Reformed denominations is wishy-washy when it comes to speaking out against abortion, although officially, the denominations are still pro-life.

Also, many of these same “mainline” denominations are actively supportive of open homosexuality, and tout their “inclusiveness” in not only welcoming openly-gay people, but also in welcoming practicing homosexuals into the pulpit as their pastors. Many of the mainline denominations also fully support homosexual marriage, and several of these denominations have performed homosexual “weddings” in violation of the laws.
Again, the Reformed denoms are wishy-washy, often speaking in confusing language about the issue of homosexual practice and marriage.

The exceptions are the Pentecostal denominations, e.g., the Assemblies of God. These denominations ordain women, but are, in writing anyway, pro-life. Also, they continue to teach that active homosexuality is sinful.

But many of the mainline denominations that ordain women are neck-deep in sinful teachings and practices.

These practices were not always accepted in these denominations. The mainline denominations started out Biblical. It is difficult to say when they began to cross over into teaching and encouraging outright sin. I know that when I was a teenager in the 1960s, many of the mainline churches bought into liberal theology; e.g., Jesus was just a good man, Jesus didn’t literally rise from the dead, it is acceptable to pray to all gods, including female goddesses, etc.

IMO, it becomes impossible to accept any of the mainline teachings, including the teaching of ordaining women to the pastorate, as long as they encourage homosexuals to express their love and celebrate their wedding in their church sanctuaries, and their leaders and members march in the pro-abortion rallies brandishing coat hangers and waving signs that say “Abortion Rights.”

I have enjoyed your last two posts. I think you provide a good diagnosis of the problems in mainline churches and are right on to point out the exceptions found in certain pentecostal and charismatic churches.

 

[Radiowave]

What is offensive to you about “religious garb”?

And what, in your opinion, constitutes “religious garb”?

Priests collars and robes, nuns habits, skull caps, in fact anything that sends out a signal to others that says Im somehow different to you because I have a kind of knowledge that you dont, and because of that, Im in a position to tell you what you can and cannot do, according to some made up manmade rules!!! And not only that, but if you dont tow the line I can withhold forgiveness and condemn you to hell.

 

[hosemonkey]

The fool says “there is no God.”

 

[Radiowave]

The fool says “there is no God.”

You know there is a God??

 

[Radiowave]

If I die, when a priest has withheld forgiveness until certain conditions are met, and I am not prepared to meet those conditions, I die in a state of mortal sin. That condemns me to hell, so they like to tell me!

Priests are different and they do hold an office you and I do not and are worthy of respect due to that.

They are worthy of the same respect I give to my paperboy or the bellhop or my lawyer. They get respect because they are people just like me - not for who they are or what they do. Automatically respecting people for what they are is a receipe for disaster and gives them authority over you that is then easily abused. I need not say any more.

For example a priest cannot tell me homosexuality is not disrodered and nor should I tell him that, we are BOTH bound by discipline.

Only if you put yourself in that position and buy the hype.

 

[nhylan]

Thanks for your reaction. I do feel concerned by what happens around me and around the world. I am not an isolated person whose actions have no consequences on others and others’ actions have no consequences on my life. The stance that many of those churches take is anti family, pro individualistic and pro culture of death. They thank God for abortion, they revere homosexuality etc… and trick their followers into believing that there’s proof in Scripture for those beliefs. The Bible is my book too. My Bible doesn’t establish a female priesthood nor does it encourage abortion, same sex unions nor euthanasia. You see, I also claim the name Christian and as such yes it is bothering me when I hear a “Christian priestess” teach that Naomi and Ruth were lesbians and Jesus healed the teenage male sex slave of the roman centurion not simply the centurion servant, that God is pro free will, therefore God is “pro-choice”… They twist my Bible and they make a fool of my God.

This is a pretty ridiculous rant. Who is “They?” no one is making a fool of God. This is just another example of the “I’m part of the Conservative Orthodoxy no one else practices the true faith.” It’s a continual never ending illogical shield that people hide behind. This whole thread approaches the ridiculous. Perhaps I’ll start a thread called "Are you offended by misogynistic practices and interpretation of the bible which the Roman Church uses? How would you guys react to that?

 

[Radiowave]

No. I never said that. I cannot prove a negative and you sound like a smart cookie so I guess you know that already. But I have just been called a fool for saying there is no god. So I ask the poster they know there IS one?
If they know this, Id like to see their proof.

 

[benidict]

Priests collars and robes, nuns habits, skull caps, in fact anything that sends out a signal to others that says Im somehow different to you because I have a kind of knowledge that you dont, and because of that, Im in a position to tell you what you can and cannot do, according to some made up manmade rules!!! And not only that, but if you dont tow the line I can withhold forgiveness and condemn you to hell.

well goodness… tell me how you really feel!