Area parish decides altar-serving is for the boys

[fix]

I do not for one second believe Our Holy Father in Rome felt pressured from the woman’s movement to allow female servers.

I think the point is parishes were using them before there was permission granted. It started with an agenda. Now, like many past abuses, it has become acceptable.

The issues behind are nuanced by both sides. To be sure, it is an innovation that was not started by Rome.

 

[Teelynn]

Praise God that ***some ***of our clergy have the courage to stand up for what they believe GOD wants of us.(and not what WE think we want to do for GOD ON OUR OWN TERMS) WE SORELY NEED MORE OF THEM!!:clapping: :yup:

 

[Brendan]

During Lent our parish has 5 Masses every Sunday, 2 every other day, and Stations of the Cross. .

LMF,

FYI, our parish has 6 Sunday Mass. We have 800 families and about 200 altar servers ( all boys)

Boys enter into altar service at about age 5 and most will continue until they go off to college

A typical Sunday Mass will involve about 20 servers,

The younger ones will carry processional torches, the ‘middle ones’ will ring the sanctus bells and hold the patens at Communion. The older ones will act as Sacristans on the altar (it really amazing, they will turn the pages of the Sacramentary for Father, right on time)

About 1/3 of those ‘senior’ altar boys will go on to the Seminary, we currently have 6 men in the Seminary right now (again, that is out of 800 familes)

Each group of boys is trained by the older ones. Our parish had a new 4 year old Altar boy start recently. My 8 year old son trained him when to bring up the lavabo towel. My son is being trained by a 10 year old on when to ring the bells at the correct time.

That 10 year old is probably getting trained by a 12 year old on when to bring the Sacramentary up to Father for the Collect.

And the 12 year old is probably being trained by a 14 year old on how to set the Altar for the Eucharistic Prayer.

And so on…

Here’s some pics from a parish Mass (on another thread)

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1721749&postcount=236

If a priest wants to encourage vocations and get lots of great help on the altar at the same time, here is a great model for him to use

 

[Brendan]

The issues behind are nuanced by both sides. To be sure, it is an innovation that was not started by Rome.

No kidding, both +John Paul II and +Benedict retain an all male altar boy cadre at the Vatican.

If they really wanted altar girls, they would have set the example themselves.

 

[MrS]

I think the point is parishes were using them before there was permission granted. It started with an agenda. Now, like many past abuses, it has become acceptable.

The issues behind are nuanced by both sides. To be sure, it is an innovation that was not started by Rome.

Absolutely true…

abuses prolonged… become “norms” because some bishops are afraid to lose collections, and so they simply cave…

as they have with readers, EMHC. and other “changes” in the sanctuary

Can’t wait for B16 pronouncement… due any day.

.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

The pictures are beautiful, I love to see faith in action in any parish. Unfortunately, our parish does not have the numbers to support the ministry in that way. That does not make ours a bad parish or full of liturgical abuse. If our Holy Father announced there would be only male servers, that would of course be fine with me, as I am sure it would be fine with our bishop and pastor who allow female servers. As it is, we will most likely continue to use female servers, cantors, lectors and Extraordinary Ministers. For now, it is my hope that allowing girls gives them a sense of serving the parish which hopefully will follow them throughout their lives in serving their faith. If it brings families to Mass because their children are serving, all the better.

 

[Brendan]

The pictures are beautiful, I love to see faith in action in any parish. Unfortunately, our parish does not have the numbers to support the ministry in that way.

How large is your parish?, as I mentioned, ours mid sized at best (800 families)

The big key here was opening up altar service to ALL boys from age 5 (sometimes 4) to 18 ish.

And all boys who are present get a chance to serve, it isn’t just a select ‘team’.

There is no altar server schedule to create, if a boy is present at Mass, he vests and is given a role.

What is really cool is when one of our seminarians comes back for the weekend. They too will vest and serve. The smaller boys will gather around him, like meeting a celebrity, I’m reminded of a Major League baseball player who shows up on the old sand lot he used to play on

 

[prv]

In my parish, altar ministry is open to boys and men alike w/o age limit.

That being said, we must remember that lay altar ministry is itself a calling, not a right, and that the priest’s limitation on who is eligible to serve may actually be a divine message under the disguise of a parish policy stating who He wants to serve at His holy altar. It has nothing at all, absolutely nothing, to do with OUR rights but about God’s calling.

 

[prv]

Whining about who is allowed to serve does nothing to build up the church, unless, of course, your pries/parish is totally heterodox. In that case, you have more issues to deal with.

 

[prv]

I remember serving at campus ministry at Baylor. I had a habit of always saying “yes” when asked by the sacristan, eventhough I wanted to sit with my friends sometime. I had a reputation of never saying “no,” except when I was ill. We never had a schedule of servers. Sometimes we went w/o a server if I could hide myself within the people.

 

[iserve]

I think that there is a whole lot that goes into this that must be considered. Someone above implied that sociological fact is irrelevant here, but Sociological facts DO come into play because sociology is about people, and people are those things that come to Church- how ridiculous to try to separate human behavior from faith. While Jesus might have used men at the altar, He also broke precedent by establishing a priesthood outside of the Levite tribe, He lived a society that would never have allowed women to enter into religious diologue, although He seems to have had no particular dislike for counting them as trusted followers. We, however, do not live in such circumstances, and to completely exclude women from worship service would cause an effect in the social climate we live in.
The Church needs faithful women just as much as she needs priests. Women who are excluded from everything but listening and hanging on in the periphery could easily feel alienated. It may seem easy to dismiss, but it could lead to more trouble down the road when women are the very first influence in a male’s life as his MOTHER. Anyone who thinks that good priests are not first formed at home is nuts. The plain fact is that there are +s and --s on both sides. But a girl who learns to respond to the call to love God as an altar server is also likely to instill this in her children and promote service as well.
In one final note, it also cannot be overlooked that homosexuality in the priesthood had a profound sociological effect on it’s consideration by many males. I would bet that this caused thousands of men to avoid the call, as did my son when asked. He outright said it was a ‘gay’ profession.

 

[Gearoidin]

What is wrong with allowing adult male altar servers? This is quite common in our church. We have in addition to young male children a number of high school and college and post college aged men serving.

That’s what we have and also the seminarians serve as altar servers. We usually have 3 to 5 small boys, 2 or 3 teenage boys, 2 seminarians and our 2 married deacons.

Gearoidin

 

[DiannaK]

I’ll have to take a look at the servers list in both of our parishes, and see what the boy/girl ratio is. I’m pretty sure it’s about even.

I’ll admit – my daughter serves primarily because I encourage it. I think it’s an honor, and I felt like my being “closer to the action”, Mass might mean more to her.

One of the PPs made a comment about how there were loads of ways for children to serve their parishes. I’d like to hear more about those, since in our parishes, it’s limited to serving, and the children’s choir.

Dianna

 

[m134e5]

Nancy Dallavalle, a professor of religious studies at Fairfield University and a feminist theologian, said it is unclear to her how eliminating altar girls could solve the shortage of priests. “I think it’s a mistake of judgment,” she said. “I think this is not a healthy practice for a Catholic parish.”

When vocations to the priesthood are down, and men (and women) are seen less and less often at Mass, it seems that practice is more unhealthy than parishes that only let boys serve, where there are more vocations, and men feel like they still have a place in the Church- and the women in the parish are kind and humble and reverent, instead of domineering and, to be honest, very annoying.

Christine Schenk, director of FutureChurch, a national coalition of parish-based Catholics that advocates opening ordination to women and married people, called the move misguided and the program sexist.

With groups like FutureChurch in charge, the Church would fall in just a few generations. The Holy Spirit still guides the Church, so it is likely on a very different path than the path those at FutureChurch, Call to Action, Voice of the Faithful, National Catholic Reporter have envisioned. (Thank God)

 

[iserve]

The world does not have a gender-specific crisis of faith, and youth, in general needs to feel uniquely connected to worship in a God-less society. Offering opportunities to boys and not girls leaves girls looking outside, not in, for inclusion. The priesthood is male only, but to make Catholic worship exclusively male seems an unfortunate and uneccessary choice.

 

[zuzu]

Seramina,
‘Taking umbridge’ is a rather old fashioned and typically understated way us Brits have of taking offence. I suppose it is like ‘politely having a grievance’.

Re. your other point, on what i said about the decline of vocations, -
i was merely reflecting on some of the comments i have been reading (and hearing) that Altar Boys = Future Priests, but Female Servers = Less Boys, therefore Less Boys = Fewer Priests.
It is a point of view, but not one which i think holds up too well.
My own point being that (IMHO) the decline in vocations would have happened regardless of whether or not girls/women were serving at the Altar.
I cannot comment on the way things are in the USA (or anywhere else for that matter), but seminaries in the UK and Ireland have been attracting fewer and fewer candidates for some time now, and i suspect this was happening well before the introduction of female servers!
This decline in vocations could merely be ‘cyclical’, and will no doubt pick up again in the future - let’s hope so.
cheers
Suze

 

[fix]

While Jesus might have used men at the altar, He also broke precedent by establishing a priesthood outside of the Levite tribe, He lived a society that would never have allowed women to enter into religious diologue, although He seems to have had no particular dislike for counting them as trusted followers. We, however, do not live in such circumstances, and to completely exclude women from worship service would cause an effect in the social climate we live in.

This seems to be the typical feminist propaganda used today. Do you think Christ was bound by cultural norms?

The use of female servers started as an abuse why do we need to justify it?

The Church needs faithful women just as much as she needs priests. Women who are excluded from everything but listening and hanging on in the periphery could easily feel alienated.

That someone feels a certain way is in no way a justification for anything. Perhaps both men and women need to learn that our feelings are not always a legitimate way to form our conscience.

It may seem easy to dismiss, but it could lead to more trouble down the road when women are the very first influence in a male’s life as his MOTHER

And a good mother accepts that the Church is an authentic teacher. She does not indoctrinate a false sense of alienation into her daughters.

In one final note, it also cannot be overlooked that homosexuality in the priesthood had a profound sociological effect on it’s consideration by many males. I would bet that this caused thousands of men to avoid the call, as did my son when asked. He outright said it was a ‘gay’ profession.

Preteen and teen girls serving will not help that misunderstanding at all. In fact, it may reinforce it.

 

[Spence06]

It is up to the Bishop and up to the Pastor to allow women to serve, but who does it help if they are not allowed?

The Vatican says they are able to serve but bishops are not bound to accept them. But again, what motivates those who say they are not allowed? If the Pope permits it, I see absolutely no reason to deny it.

 

[fix]

The Vatican does not encourage their use. The Vatican says each priest has the authority to decide. I see no reason they should be used at all.

 

[Spence06]

The Vatican does not encourage their use. The Vatican says each priest has the authority to decide. I see no reason they should be used at all.

Yes but only to "to best promote “an ordered development of liturgical life in his own diocese.”

That must be kept in mind, not due to an old priest that feels women should not do it simply because, “thats how it use to be.”

Where does the Vatican not encourage their use since it has been allowed by the Pope?