Arm around spouse/ date/"nuzzling" in pews during Mass?

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Luna_Lovecraft said:
My husband takes my hand, helps me out of the car, and escorts me into church on his arm. He holds my hand during the homily. He escorts me out of church after Mass on his arm, opens my car door, and helps me back into the car. He says it’s because I’m his ‘beautiful, elegant lady’.

This is one of his most endearing behaviors, and it’s one reason why going to Mass is so very hard for me when he’s out of town.

If any parishioner thought we were displaying inappropriate PDA, I for their sake hope they keep their opinions to themselves. If they said anything directly I fear I would bust out the uglies. 😉

Luna
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You’re mostly listing things that happen outside of mass, so they are not relevant.

I don’t think holding hands is distracting unless one is constantly lifting said hands to one’s lips to kiss it, LOL.

This is only my opinion of course.
 
aicirt said:
Come on, Tim. I kissed my husband on the altar when we wed too. Who hasn’t. And I kiss my husband, family and friends during the sign of peace and hold hands. We’re talking about back rubs, cuddling up as if at home on a couch, staring at each other and whispering during the Mass, etc. That is not appropriate.
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See my reply to TheRealJuliane. And I guarantee you that my kiss for my wife during our wedding Mass was way more passionate and sexually charged than holding her hand or putting my arm around her during Mass. There are several posters on this thread that make it clear that they disagree with even holding hands or putting an arm around a spouse. That, in my opinion, is silly, but I can’t imagine what they would have said about our kiss.

Peace

Tim
 
TrueLight said:
You’re mostly listing things that happen outside of mass, so they are not relevant.

I don’t think holding hands is distracting unless one is constantly lifting said hands to one’s lips to kiss it, LOL.

This is only my opinion of course.
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Well, according to some here and on threads like these, my being on his arm as we go to and from the pew is inappropriate, as is his taking my hand during the homily. And to them I say: Get a Life. Seriously.

Luna
 
salusanimarum17 said:
Maybe, but you are causing the distraction. Why should someone have to accomodate you and your desires and not the other way around?
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I don’t care if they are distracted. I suggest that they move if they can’t overcome that distraction, but if they can’t and decide not to move, that is their decision. I’m not moving and I will be putting my arm around my wife. I don’t consider that a distraction.

Peace

Tim
 
Orogeny said:
I don’t care if they are distracted. I suggest that they move if they can’t overcome that distraction, but if they can’t and decide not to move, that is their decision. I’m not moving and I will be putting my arm around my wife. I don’t consider that a distraction. …
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So, the reason why others have to alter their behavior is because you don’t care. How convenient for you. Fortunately, when I have found a pattern that so-and-so couple sits in such-and-such a place, I happily move and do not say that they need to accomodate me because I don’t care what they think.
 
I think my husband and I must be doing back rubs wrong if they are supposed to be so sexually charged as to be inappropriate for Mass.

In all seriousness, my husband often puts his arm around me (when we aren’t separated by kids) and lately I’ve probably rested my head on his shoulder because I’m suffering through “morning sickness” and feel horrible. He’ll run his hand up and down my back to encourage me when I’m having a particularly tough day with our 2 year old. On occasion I’ve squeezed his knee to draw his attention to something in the homily that I thought was particularly note worthy.

To be honest, I think sometimes people place too much emphasis on the “individual” experience at Mass and lose sight of the fact that it’s also time for the community to worship together. I think it would be exceedingly strange for my husband not to acknowledge my feelings/experiences just because we are in Mass together. It’s the same reason I think whispering is fine as long as the purpose of the whispering is to instruct children on what’s happening in Mass. I think it’s important to worship as a family which includes a certain amount of affection.
 
jwinch2 said:
So, when are the things you mentioned inappropriate and when are they not? My wife and I happen to do several of the things you claimed are: a) akin to making out in a movie theater; b) turning Mass into a spectator event; and c) focusing on one’s personal relationship to the point that Christ is ignored in the Mass. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is one of the things that my wife and I truly love going to and participating in together. We came into the Church together and it was a profound and life changing experience for both of us. God knows we have a long way yet to go, but since that time, we have done our best to center our lives and our marriage around God and His Church. How else but personally would you expect me to take it? Frankly, I have a hard time seeing how one can get much more personal than that. This is not simply some abstract issue. There are real people expressing these behaviors, and I am one of them. And who is the judge on that? Are their criteria established by the Church that we can look at similar to liturgical abuses or unorthodox teachings? Or, is this merely a subjective opinion based on your personal preferences? And some on this thread seem to wish to judge something, including people’s motivations behind the behaviors they exhibit.
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Wow. I hope I don’t have some of these posters here in my parish. My husband and I are very affectionate, much like what Jason was describing. I am shocked that people would think that we were “all over each other” for sitting close, looking at each other, having an arm around the other. I assure you, there is nothing sexual going on in these moments. Nonsexual marital affection is a positive thing to encourage in this day and age. G and I often look at each other during Mass, usually because of an excellent point made in the homily, or because the scripture readings are something we had recently discussed, or something in the music or readings touched our hearts. We are ONE FLESH. My worship of my God is so much more meaningful because I share it with a wonderful man and our two daughters. My focus is ever-turning toward my Lord. I believe that the attitude of affection between spouses as something to be frowned upon reveals more about the people with the issues with it rather than the couple who has an arm around the other. Keep in mind also, things are not always as they seem. I have cancer and am in constant pain, am sick most of the time, am weak, and am processing grief and the comfort I receive from my amazing husband is what gets me through sometimes. So, resting my head on his shoulder with his arm around me is often about this, and my gratitude I made it to Mass that day, than anything else.
 
salusanimarum17 said:
So, the reason why others have to alter their behavior is because you don’t care.
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They don’t have to alter anything. It is their choice. If I were sitting behing a family with a very disruptive toddler, I would choose to move but I would never believe that that family should move. If someone is distracted by me having my arm around my wife during Mass, they can choose to move.
How convenient for you.
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Really? I should have to move because someone else is distracted? Really?
Fortunately, when I have found a pattern that so-and-so couple sits in such-and-such a place, I happily move and do not say that they need to accomodate me because I don’t care what they think.
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You choose to move. No one makes you move. Why don’t you demand that so-and-so couple move rather than you?

Peace

Tim
 
lifeandhope said:
Wow. I hope I don’t have some of these posters here in my parish. My husband and I are very affectionate, much like what Jason was describing. I am shocked that people would think that we were “all over each other” for sitting close, looking at each other, having an arm around the other. I assure you, there is nothing sexual going on in these moments. Nonsexual marital affection is a positive thing to encourage in this day and age. G and I often look at each other during Mass, usually because of an excellent point made in the homily, or because the scripture readings are something we had recently discussed, or something in the music or readings touched our hearts. We are ONE FLESH. My worship of my God is so much more meaningful because I share it with a wonderful man and our two daughters. My focus is ever-turning toward my Lord. I believe that the attitude of affection between spouses as something to be frowned upon reveals more about the people with the issues with it rather than the couple who has an arm around the other. Keep in mind also, things are not always as they seem. I have cancer and am in constant pain, am sick most of the time, am weak, and am processing grief and the comfort I receive from my amazing husband is what gets me through sometimes. So, resting my head on his shoulder with his arm around me is often about this, and my gratitude I made it to Mass that day, than anything else.
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This.

Peace,
 
Gordon_Sims said:
One the rare occasions when my wife and I actually get to sit next to one another at Mass (as in, without kids in between), I’ll hold her hand and occasionally put my arm around her. Nothing inappropriate, especially the hand-holding since we tend to hold hands as a family while praying.

I’ve seen people go way past the line of what’s acceptable, though. Just recently there was a younger couple who had their hands all over each other all throughout Mass, including having their hands in each others back pockets through most of the Mass. This was right after the brouhaha with the lesbian who was denied Communion and I still think this couple–who haven’t been seen in our parish before or since–were there to cause problems. They didn’t hold a candle to the couple at Christmas Midnight Mass several years ago, though. They had several ridiculously rowdy young kids whose care and discipline they left up to the oblivious grandparents. They spent almost the entire Mass making out, groping each other (mostly above the waist but occasionally beneath the clothing) and at one point were nearly laying down in the pew, half on top of one another. Several people commented, a few moved (difficult considering how crowded the church was) and the ushers even had words with them a few times. I’ve never seen them back, but the grandparents still attend.

As far as hats go, I wore a baseball cap to Mass once back in college. It was a Saturday evening Mass and there were lots of extenuating circumstances involved, but I had no clue at the time that it was looked down on. When the priest stopped to tell me to remove it during the entrance procession, I got the idea and haven’t worn one to Mass since.
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Now, now, you should’ve just been focused on the Mass instead of that couple! You evil Pharisee! You know, WWJD, man…😉
 
Since when is LOVE and gestures of LOVE a distraction? Considering Jesus is LOVE and the source of LOVE in all of us…considering marriage is a HOLY sacrament and the expression of LOVE in a marriage is ALIVE and a gift of the HOLY SPIRIT or even better IS the HOLY SPIRIT!

The scriptures say to “Greet one another with a HOLY kiss.” and “have mutual affection for one another.”

Being offended by love and affection sounds like scribes and pharisees when they accuse Jesus for having healed on the Sabbath. Marriage is in itself a symbol of EUCHARIST and I can’t imagine the God who makes mutual love and affection possible would be offended by what HE ordained. The two are ONE flesh and together offering themselves to God. They are no longer two but ONE as Christ and His bride are ONE.

Get over it!
 
Our rule is that it is like having a cupcake. You don’t enjoy it in front of other people unless you’re willing to share.

Displays of affection of the type and duration that would be allowed with someone else’s kid under Called to Protect guidelines would be OK: squeezing a hand or holding hands for a prayer, a side hug or a pat on the back, that kind of thing. Much more than that (a little more would be OK) falls into the category of making other people watch you enjoy what you’re not willing to share with them.

You don’t know that someone near you isn’t feeling the loss or absence of their spouse. Try to show the kind of affection that you’d be able to extend to them, too. Otherwise, don’t do it at Mass.
 
Orogeny said:
I don’t care if they are distracted. I suggest that they move if they can’t overcome that distraction, but if they can’t and decide not to move, that is their decision. I’m not moving and I will be putting my arm around my wife. I don’t consider that a distraction.

Peace

Tim
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That is an appalling lack of charity. The world doesn’t revolve around you, what you want, or what you think, and neither does the Holy Mass that is held in remembrance of the sacrificial love of Our Lord.
 
bearer said:
That is an appalling lack of charity. The world doesn’t revolve around you, what you want, or what you think, and neither does the Holy Mass that is held in remembrance of the sacrificial love of Our Lord.
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…said by the person who finds it distracting. Should the world revolve around the one who is distracted? Being distracted comes from your own inability to place your attention on Jesus or your own inability to be able to REJOICE over loving spouses. Aren’t we supposed to see Jesus in others? Maybe it’s a symbol of the love Jesus has for His bride…He embraces her in communion. What is the difference?
 
Do you realize that “making problems” is a means of creating division and separation? Do you realize that when we are busying ourselves with what we think is inappropriate for others to do, we are not examining our own thoughts and judgments? We all have too many faults of our own to be going after “the speck in our neighbor’s eye.” Now, if someone was endangering themselves or someone else that is different but to get nit picky is uncharitable.
Often it is just a way for us to say, “look at me! I’m doing everything I’m supposed to, unlike that sinner over there!”

Now, in regards to the couple who were “over the top” groping and making out, they obviously do not know why they are there or that Christ is being offered up in sacrifice. If they did, they probably would not be doing what they were doing. A loving and informative discourse with the couple would indeed be appropriate. Not on the basis that they were distracting but on the basis that they were ignorant.
 
Lady_Love said:
…said by the person who finds it distracting. Should the world revolve around the one who is distracted? Being distracted comes from your own inability to place your attention on Jesus or your own inability to be able to REJOICE over loving spouses. Aren’t we supposed to see Jesus in others? Maybe it’s a symbol of the love Jesus has for His bride…He embraces her in communion. What is the difference?
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What’s the difference? Do you want to go there? Really?

Let’s just say that if a couple were to re-enact the Song of Songs during Mass, they’d have to be nuts to think that wouldn’t be a distraction from the Mass. And why stop there? Why not bring some animals in, too, to remind us of the Good Shepherd and St. Francis? Maybe some Crucifixion re-enactors, too.

Expecting other people to see you and your husband’s public displays of affection during Mass as an invitation to meditation on Christ and the Church is over the top. A person of great sanctity might be willing to do that as a way to cope with the distraction you pose, but it is not your place to expect that.

Rather, let us imitate St. John the Baptist:* “He must increase; I must decrease*.” John 3:30
 
Lady_Love said:
…said by the person who finds it distracting. Should the world revolve around the one who is distracted? Being distracted comes from your own inability to place your attention on Jesus or your own inability to be able to REJOICE over loving spouses. Aren’t we supposed to see Jesus in others? Maybe it’s a symbol of the love Jesus has for His bride…He embraces her in communion. What is the difference?
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The world should, and does, revolve around Christ. Period.

The faithful are to be living sacrifices and to bring our neighbors closer to God. If you can’t get that through your head, then I dare say you have some serious issues of pride to deal with.

Love is an act of sacrifice, not a nuzzle, not a whisper. Yes, we are to see Jesus in others, but we’re also to be as He is ourselves. The time to physically rejoice in spousal love is in the marriage bed. There no need to touch one another before Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist.
 
Lady_Love said:
Do you realize that “making problems” is a means of creating division and separation? Do you realize that when we are busying ourselves with what we think is inappropriate for others to do, we are not examining our own thoughts and judgments? We all have too many faults of our own to be going after “the speck in our neighbor’s eye.” Now, if someone was endangering themselves or someone else that is different but to get nit picky is uncharitable.
Often it is just a way for us to say, “look at me! I’m doing everything I’m supposed to, unlike that sinner over there!”
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It’s not about us being right, feeling righteous, or exposing sin. We’re all sinners, each and every one of us. It’s about being reverent before God and putting the welfare of others above our own.
 
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