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AquinaSavio
Guest
He’s already admitted that he has a problem with anger. I think that’s very brave of him. Let’s not continue to make him feel bad about it, eh?
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Atk_Aheeni
Guest
If that makes you feel better.
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Atk_Aheeni
Guest
Even though I have a diffrence in opinion than you of how it could have been dealt with. I can honestly say that temper must be torture to deal with if your having a temper tantrum over a kid with guitars. Sorry for bieng judgemental on your decision to leave. I think it would have been worse to lose it in the church. I hope you conquer that one day man.
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deb1
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Despite following this thread, I didn’t realize that you had such a problem with your anger. I thought that you were simply just really irritated. Now that I realize that you have a problem controlling your temper beyond what most people have, I will apologize.
So, yes, in your particular situation, you did what was necessary for you to regain control of yourself.
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VociMike
Guest
But the thing is, the Church does see “older music” as inherently superior to the “modern” dreck that happens in most parishes today. Not because it is older, but because it more fully fulfills the requirements of sacred music in the liturgy. In fact, the Church has been adamant about this fact:
*“Gregorian chant…should be given pride of place in liturgical services. But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations…”
“You, teachers and students, are asked to make the most of your artistic gifts, maintaining and furthering the study and practice of music and song in the forms and with the instruments privileged by the Second Vatican Council: Gregorian chant, sacred polyphony and the organ.”
“With regard to liturgical music compositions, I make my own the “general law” that Saint Pius X formulated in these terms: ‘A composition for Church is sacred and liturgical insofar as it approaches Gregorian melody in flow, in inspiration, and in flavor, and so much less is it worthy of the temple insomuch as it is recognized as departing from that supreme model’.”
“Classic Polyphony agrees admirably with Gregorian Chant, the supreme model of all sacred music, and hence it has been found worthy of a place side by side with Gregorian Chant”
“An authentic updating of sacred music can take place only in the lineage of the great tradition of the past, of Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony…”
“In the West, in the form of Gregorian chant, the inherited tradition of psalm-singing was developed to a new sublimity and purity, which set a permanent standard for sacred music, music for the liturgy of the Church.”*
The first quote is from Vatican II. The next three are from Pope John Paul II. The last two are from Pope Benedict XVI.
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tkdnick
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From the USCCB site regarding US adaptations to the GIRM
Musical Instruments and Approval of Musical Settings
This adaptation will be inserted at number 393:
Bearing in mind the important place which singing has in celebration, as a necessary and integral part of the Liturgy, all musical settings of the texts for the people’s responses and acclamations in the Order of Mass and for special rites that occur in the course of the liturgical year must be submitted to the USCCB Secretariat for the Liturgy for review and approval prior to publication.
While the organ is to be accorded pride of place, other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be used in liturgical services in the dioceses of the United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.
Musical Instruments and Approval of Musical Settings
This adaptation will be inserted at number 393:
Bearing in mind the important place which singing has in celebration, as a necessary and integral part of the Liturgy, all musical settings of the texts for the people’s responses and acclamations in the Order of Mass and for special rites that occur in the course of the liturgical year must be submitted to the USCCB Secretariat for the Liturgy for review and approval prior to publication.
While the organ is to be accorded pride of place, other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be used in liturgical services in the dioceses of the United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.
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DWPC
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I suspect that we’re also seeing why the Church had generally refused to adopt “vulgar” music, i.e, popular music of the common people, into the liturgy, for over a millenia. Every culture and era has its own, and I suspect it was a undesirable source of friction between groups whenever it was tried in the liturgy.
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WenckebachCath
Guest
Well…don’t I hear ya! Nothing ticks me off faster than seeing a group of teenagers gathered in a church using their time, talent and energy to praise God.
I mean, c’mon on…whatever happened to sneaking cigarettes, swiping liquor from the old man’s cabinet and getting drunk or having sex in the back of the Chevy??? What in the world is to become of the detox counselors, crisis pregnancy advisors, parole officers, abortion protestors–I mean these folks need to earn a living too, don’t they?!? WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH KIDS THESE DAYS turning to the Church of all places to spend their time!!! I hope we can turn this trend around and soon!!!
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tkdnick
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Another one from the GIRM
41. All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.50
41. All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.50
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Rebecca_New
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I agree with you 100%. Yes, Jesus got mad and turned over the tables in the Temple, but this is different. You could have stayed and suffered through for the Lord.
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valient_Lucy
Guest
I do agree, though I love singing in Latin and listening to the organ. I find that it helps me to pray.
No amount of terrible music prevents Christ from being present at every valid Mass. And believe me, no matter what the musical style there will always be times where the choir or musicians are having an off day. Can’t believe you would walk out for something so trivial.
However, the Mass is beautiful, not because of the music, but because Christ is present, and we can receive Him in the Mass. That’s the most important thing.
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jmcrae
Guest
Have you thought of checking yourself into a psychatric facility to find a cure for this? I imagine it must put a real damper on your employment opportunities and your home life.
I will be praying for you to find a cure.
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rayne89
Guest
Well hopefully this type of Mass won’t be popular with the regulars and they’ll drop it. I know how frustrating it is sitting through fluff and warm and fuzzy Masses -been there, done that.
It’s good that you realize you have an anger problem and I hope your are getting professional help in dealing with it. There are so many things in life that happen that are beyond our control, you’re going to have a really tough time in this life if you can’t keep your anger in check. I will keep you in my prayers. God Bless,
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prv
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If the homilies at the 7 pm Mass are lukewarm to begin with, was it better this time? Perhaps consider attending the other available Masses, and see if they offer something
else.
else.
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valient_Lucy
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Amen!
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sinner
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I’m not trying to hijack the thread, but could someone explain to me why a 7pm Sunday Mass wouldn’t actually be the Monday Vigil Mass, when the Sunday Vigil Mass must take place after 4pm on Saturday? IOW, Masses after 4pm on Saturday are applied to the Sunday obligation, why aren’t Masses after 7pm on Sunday applied to the following Monday? Never quite understood this…
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jmcrae
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In the Liturgy of the Hours, Sunday is the longest day of the week - it begins at Vespers of Saturday (late afternoon) and ends at midnight of Sunday.
For the timing of Mass, we follow the liturgical day, rather than the solar day.
Vespers can be said as early as 4:00 pm (although more typically it is said at 6:00 pm) so you can have a Sunday Mass as early as 4:00 pm on the previous Saturday, because someone, somewhere, is praying First Vespers of Sunday at that time, which is what makes it Sunday of the liturgical week.
There is no Saturday Vespers - Sunday has First Vespers on the Saturday afternoon, (with Matins and day prayers during the day) and Second Vespers on the Sunday afternoon, followed by Sunday Night Prayer at anywhere from 9:00 pm to midnight.
I hope that wasn’t too confusing … slightly off topic, but did you know that we also have a whole week of Sundays right after Easter? I love living in Catholic time.
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maherite1977
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We have this occasionally at our 11:30 a.m. Mass. We, unfortunately, have a “folk group” that provides the music for our liturgy a couple Sundays a month. In fact, they played this Sunday at a Memorial Mass for deceased members of a neighborhood 55+ organization. THEY WERE TERRIBLE!!!
Between the guitar playing, the massive cremation mass setting and someone in the group being noticeably off-key, the Mass was not all what it was cracked up to be. It has gotten to the point that Mass attendance has dropped at this Mass due to the poor performance of our “folk group”. The folk group has now become a distraction during Mass. Plus, they have no room to hide during the Mass - they are at the front left of the sanctuary, right out in the open for all to cringe at.
I personally attend 3 Masses during the weekend to help out with our altar servers or sing in our choir and I dread this Mass the most.
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tmw
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Precisely. So why do most churches not offer the chant instead all of the contemporary stuff? Leave the contemporary in your cd players at home and in your car. The reverance of chant is most fitting for the Mass, but sadly it’s virtually non existant.
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netmilsmom
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I stand corrected. The OP stated “This was not a lifeteen Mass. It was not a rock and roll Mass. It was two teens with an acoustic guitar singing horrible protestant music.”
Which in my mind, makes it even worse. Who exactly were the key audience of this mass?
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