Arrgh! Horrible "Surprise" at Mass today

[netmilsmom]

Trust me when I asssure you that I had no trouble whatsoever deciphering the temperament of the OP or what s/he meant by his post and responded accordingly:

No, what you wrote had nothing to do with temperament but rather popping up a straw man heavy ladened with sarcasm.
The temperment is not the problem, putting word down that the OP never said is. No matter how clever it may seem.
It really doesn’t help the situation.

 

[Norseman82]

Another way to handle it would be to stay to the end and later write a letter to the bishop, but be sure to document what are truly violations. I’ve done this before.

Another way to approach it would be to try to get to know the leaders of the teen group if possible and try to be a good influence on them, because in all likelihood the teens are not going to get it right the first time and it will take some trial and error and they will need a good guide.

The reason I take interest in this thread is that the youth group in my parish is looking to do a “contemporary/gospel” choir. I was disheartened to hear the lady in charge of the youth group say that a good chunk of he teens left for non-denominational churches because they wanted to do “praise music”. Since I’m one of the leaders of the parish young adult group, I just want to stay close enough to be in a position to tell them “you’re leaving the Church over THAT???” so that they realize what they are leaving behind is far more important.

 

[Still_Trying]

Yeah but any catholic knows when you see people leave the church during mass its either someone had a baby someone died or someone fainted. Those kids know better what that was about. i guess i would have took one for the team.

Unfortunately this parish doesn’t have a “team” feeling. And people do wander in and out frequetly (which doesn’t exactly help things). Again, I seriously doubt the girls noticed.

 

[Still_Trying]

Another way to handle it would be to stay to the end and later write a letter to the bishop, but be sure to document what are truly violations. I’ve done this before.

I wish our bishop would listen to his flock. He flat out won’t. He won’t respond to any contacts. It’s awful.

I wrote a letter to our parish priest and sent it out today. I don’t know that it will do much good, but I had to at least try.

Please keep our diocese in your prayers…

 

[Still_Trying]

Well…don’t I hear ya! Nothing ticks me off faster than seeing a group of teenagers gathered in a church using their time, talent and energy to praise God.
I mean, c’mon on…whatever happened to sneaking cigarettes, swiping liquor from the old man’s cabinet and getting drunk or having sex in the back of the Chevy??? What in the world is to become of the detox counselors, crisis pregnancy advisors, parole officers, abortion protestors–I mean these folks need to earn a living too, don’t they?!? WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH KIDS THESE DAYS turning to the Church of all places to spend their time!!! I hope we can turn this trend around and soon!!!

In reading this it seems that your intent is to make the OP look like a creep. You realize that making comments like this only makes you look bad, right?

Sarcastic remarks are childish and rude. I will say a prayer for you…that your words will only uplift and encourage…not exacerbate an already tense situation… Perhaps when you are a bit older and wiser you will understand.

 

[Still_Trying]

I agree with you 100%. Yes, Jesus got mad and turned over the tables in the Temple, but this is different. You could have stayed and suffered through for the Lord.

I PMed the OP. I actually know him…though we will leave identity at that. He has already put up with a LOT of garbage from that parish. More than he has written in this forum. And I know others have as well. His anger, though a bit on the strong side, is understandable.

To be honest…I think if Jesus had been standing there, HE would have gotten up and walked out…

I haven’t been thru as much garbage at the parish as the OP has (though I’ve had plenty of it there) and I barely made it to the end of mass (I’m slow to anger…my mom teases that you could spit in my face and I’d ask if it was raining).

I have to agree with an earlier poster…standing by and letting abuses pass without comment or action is only condoning it.

 

[mosher]

Just some comments I had while reading the thread:

How many of your churches (that have guitars,drums,tamborines, keyboards,bongos,etc.) have these musicians placed somewhere in the very front where they are often a focal point when they belt out a rhapsody during the mass

Yes and yes and it is inappropriate on liturgical, church architectural and theological grounds.

I wonder why people take such a strong stance on having “traditional” music. What makes that music any better than contemporary? Have you even looked at the authors of these traditional hymns? Half of them are Protestant, yet we sing them all the time. What makes those hymns ok but not newer ones? And what if the newer ones were done by Catholic artists? Would that make it ok?

By traditional we don’t mean Woship II hymns but rather the Gregorian Hymnal at least.

I don’t know of any hymns that are 2,000 years old.

The “Sub Tuum” is an example of a near 2000 year old hymn.

The only official document I know of that even makes reference to the music is the GIRM which talks about Gregorian Chant having place of preference except in places where there is a tradition of a different type of music.

Your problem here is the use of the word except. This is not the intent of the GIRM. Rather it gives a hierarchy to types of liturgical music not a horizontal field. Also there are many documents that outline what Sacred Music is and what it is not. I would advise reading through the library at adoremus.org.

Well…don’t I hear ya! Nothing ticks me off faster than seeing a group of teenagers gathered in a church using their time, talent and energy to praise God.

Hyperbole aside I think we should not forget the sons of Aaron in Leviticus 10:1-2.

Who exactly were the key audience of this mass?

And here is the root of the problem. The only audience of the Mass is God the Father. The mass is not primarily for us but rather it is our duty to God. The entertainment of those in the nave should be the least of all the concerns if it is one at all.

 

[DoggyLives]

So a mass that is somewhat similar to a protestant mass is a valid reason to be angry? I just love the smell of tolerance of some people…

 

[VociMike]

Originally Posted by tkdnick
The only official document I know of that even makes reference to the music is the GIRM which talks about Gregorian Chant having place of preference except in places where there is a tradition of a different type of music.

Then may I respectfully suggest that you withold your opinions about sacred music in the liturgy until you familiarize yourself with all of the documents (Vatican II and subsequent papal documents, as well as comments by Vatican II-era popes and also by Cardinal Arinze) that speak on sacred music?

 

[tkdnick]

Then may I respectfully suggest that you withold your opinions about sacred music in the liturgy until you familiarize yourself with all of the documents (Vatican II and subsequent papal documents, as well as comments by Vatican II-era popes and also by Cardinal Arinze) that speak on sacred music?

Do any of them say that contemporary music should not be used?

 

[VociMike]

Do any of them say that contemporary music should not be used?

What they do is to discuss the purpose of sacred music, the models it should follow, the sources for the lyrics, the instruments (if any) that should be used and that should avoided, and what parts of the Mass should be sung according to priorities. BTW, to give you a hint as to how these documents have been ignored, the standard parish 4-song Mass is at the very bottom of the list of acceptable incorporations of music in the liturgy. It is as far away from the ideal as possible, because it is singing at Mass, rather than the ideal of singing the Mass.

“The Christian community must make an examination of conscience so that the beauty of music and song will return increasingly to the liturgy. It is necessary to purify worship of deformations, of careless forms of expression, of ill-prepared music and texts, which are not very suited to the grandeur of the act being celebrated.” Pope John Paul II

Note “return increasingly”. Ergo, there’s not much beauty of music and song currently. There are too many deformations, careless forms of expression, ill-prepared music and texts, which are not very suited to the grandeur of the act being celebrated. And yet the leaders of every bad music program in every church will read these words and assure themselves that it wasn’t them that the pope was talking about.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Note “return increasingly”. Ergo, there’s not much beauty of music and song currently.

This is merely your opinion, which doesn’t make it fact.

Sure, there are some people in music ministry that don’t belong there. However, those with the skills are not coming forth, so we’re left with what we have.

Also, in my diocese, and I believe most dioceses across the US, the hymns are all taken from approved text, so the choice of songs aren’t the problem.

For those who want only Gregorian Chant, you’re going to have to do some parish shopping, because for the most part, most people in the music ministries wouldn’t have a clue on how to do it.

Jim

 

[m134e5]

Drove me nuts! I was so angry I walked out of the Mass…

Bad music or not, that is no reason to walk out of Mass…

 

[AquinaSavio]

For those who want only Gregorian Chant, you’re going to have to do some parish shopping, because for the most part, most people in the music ministries wouldn’t have a clue on how to do it.

I’ve never said that I want only Gregorain Chant…I believe I said traditional hyms.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’ve never said that I want only Gregorain Chant…I believe I said traditional hyms.

I didn’t say you;

For those who want only Gregorian Chant

 

[netmilsmom]

And here is the root of the problem. The only audience of the Mass is God the Father. The mass is not primarily for us but rather it is our duty to God. The entertainment of those in the nave should be the least of all the concerns if it is one at all.

Well if this isn’t a big “exactly”, I don’t know what is. Point taken.

 

[Norseman82]

I wish our bishop would listen to his flock. He flat out won’t. He won’t respond to any contacts. It’s awful.

Part of the problem could be that his secretary/“gatekeeper” may not forward your letters to him. If you get a chance to speak with him personally, please avail yourself of the opportunity and present a copy of your letter/evidence in person. I know people take advantage of that opportunity with Cardinal George.

 

[Wolseley]

My dear wife left a Mass literally in tears over a year ago because of the absolute awfulness of it, and she refused to attend Mass for a long, long time after that…I looked and looked and finally found a parish that has a (relatively) orthodox Mass, in a church that looks like a church instead of a grain silo attatched to a warehouse, and has an actual organist playing the hymns instead of Buffalo Springfield backed up by the Grateful Dead playing protest songs from the Vietnam War.

It took a long time, but I have finally managed to get her back to church, especially since our little son is now in “Kiddie-chasm” every Sunday morning after Mass. She recently said she wants to get more involved in the parish, so my prayers have been answered.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for any Catholic to have to undergo what she went through, or what I have gone through, or what the OP has gone through. None. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The Mass does not belong to the priest or the parishioners or the liturgists or the musicians, who think they can tinker with it and make it into any kind of dog-and-pony show they want. It belongs to the CHURCH, and it is the CHURCH who makes the decisions as to how it should be celebrated. Period.

I don’t hold out much hope for the remainder of my lifetime, but it is my fervent prayer that once my son is grown and the members of the Pepsi Generation have gone to their reward, that here in America we will have finally moved out of our current Low Church stage and moved back to something resembling Catholic worship.

 

[netmilsmom]

It took a long time, but I have finally managed to get her back to church, especially since our little son is now in “Kiddie-chasm” every Sunday morning after Mass. She recently said she wants to get more involved in the parish, so my prayers have been answered.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for any Catholic to have to undergo what she went through, or what I have gone through, or what the OP has gone through. None. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The Mass does not belong to the priest or the parishioners or the liturgists or the musicians, who think they can tinker with it and make it into any kind of dog-and-pony show they want. It belongs to the CHURCH, and it is the CHURCH who makes the decisions as to how it should be celebrated. Period.
.

You have a story that all modern music people should read. The “you should take it because it’s still Mass” doesn’t cut it with everyone. We worry so much about losing people if we don’t accomodate them, the group we forget are those who want their mass to be Historically Catholic.
If we gave them a Mass, as well as the contemporary, they would still be among us.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’ve seen a couple statements in here which say that the Mass doesn’t belong to the people. It actually does. It’s Christ gift to us.
We go to Mass to receive Him.

Jim