Article: "Newsmax finally calls election for Biden amid Electoral College vote"

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I don’t believe that anyone should be required to make a public announcement that they accept the results of the election for it to be valid.

No one is being forced to say anything. We don’t compel speech in this country (and yes, anyone who storms into a restaurant and tries to intimidate people into shouting a political slogan deserves to get punched in the mouth.)

Now, is there a social cost to shredding long standing democratic norms about what the losing campaign is supposed to do? Sure. SNL might make fun of you. People may criticize you. But no one is forcing anyone to say anything.

Trump is free to go to his grave telling anyone who will listen that he was robbed. He’s free to do that. And people are free to mock or criticize him for it.

 

[MikeInVA]

But no one is forcing anyone to say anything.

Yet every time someone says that they accept the election results as reported, it become a headline - like the title of this thread. Isn’t someone accepting the election results is newsworthy on the same level as “water is wet”? Why the intense interest in public figures stating they accept the results?

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Yet every time someone says that they accept the election results as reported, it become a headline - like the title of this thread. Isn’t someone accepting the election results is newsworthy on the same level as “water is wet”? Why the intense interest in public figures stating they accept the results?

Because the opposition almost always publicly concedes, congratulates the winner, and urges unity. Maybe it’s usually a pro-forma thing, but it’s a pretty established norm in stable democracies.

 

[MikeInVA]

And you don’t think that it’s being aggressively pushed this time? I do.

I actually dislike politicians conceding elections before the votes are all counted. Maybe it’s because I grew up in the west and saw presidential elections conceded before the polls closed in my town.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

And you don’t think that it’s being aggressively pushed this time? I do.

Sure, because people are kind of freaked out that Trump is bucking long standing tradition. No one likes to see their country lurch toward banana republic status.

 

[MikeInVA]

Sure, because people are kind of freaked out that Trump is bucking long standing tradition.

He’s not a politician. He’s been bucking tradition (where it impedes actually getting work done) for the last 4 years. He is still contesting the election, as is his right. There is no legal or practical requirement for him to verbally concede the election. He has taken no action to prevent the process from continuing. All of this posturing about conceding is childish bad sportsmanship.

 

[TMC]

I don’t believe that anyone should be required to make a public announcement that they accept the results of the election for it to be valid.

Thankfully, Trump’s public admission that he lost is not required for the election results to be implemented. It would be the responsible thing for him to do, but responsible behavior does not appear to be in his tool kit.

 

[MikeInVA]

It would be the responsible thing for him to do

What purpose would it serve, except to allow those who hate him to gloat? The election results are what they are, they do not need to be approved by every individual.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

What purpose would it serve, except to allow those who hate him to gloat? The election results are what they are, they do not need to be approved by every individual.

Because it reinforces norms about the peaceful transition of power, which is a key feature of stable democratic government. You’re right that he has no legal obligation to do so, but he’s pulling a Jenga block out of the tower of societal stability for no reason other than his ego won’t permit him to acknowledge defeat.

 

[MikeInVA]

You’re right that he has no legal obligation to do so, but he’s pulling a Jenga block out of the tower of societal stability for no reason other than his ego won’t permit him to acknowledge defeat.

Nonsense. He’s authorized everything he needs to to facilitate Biden’s transition. This desperate and irrational need for him to say anything is just hyped up hate.

 

[whatistrue]

He has taken no action to prevent the process from continuing.

Except multiple lawsuits that failed miserably and idiotic tweets. Oh, and attempting to sow dissension and get his minions spun up to the point they are talking about violence and actually recommending that firearms and farm implements be brought to protests.

All of this posturing about conceding is childish bad sportsmanship.

Trump’s behavior is well beyond childish bad sportsmanship (I realize that you were speaking of Democrats being bad sports, but since that makes no sense in this actual situation, I don’t think it needs to be addressed further) and is well into attempting to disrupt the very process by which we transfer power every 4 (or 8) years.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Nonsense. He’s authorized everything he needs to to facilitate Biden’s transition. This desperate and irrational need for him to say anything is just hyped up hate.

It’s not nonsense. Publicly refusing to concede when he’s clearly lost is detrimental to the legitimacy of our institutions. There’s a reason we have a history of peaceful transitions of power, and it’s because we (normally) have adults who respect norms in office.

 

[whatistrue]

This desperate and irrational need for him to say anything is just hyped up hate.

At this point I don’t really care if he admits he lost, mostly because I know he is not emotionally mature enough to really accept it. What I want to see though is him ceasing to claim he won when he clearly didn’t, and stop stirring up the die-hards with fake assertions about the election being stolen.

 

[TMC]

What purpose would it serve, except to allow those who hate him to gloat? The election results are what they are, they do not need to be approved by every individual.

The previous 44 presidents all thought it had purpose (at least the 39 that left through the electoral process), and the purpose seems pretty obvious. He does not have to “approve” of the result, no one likes to lose. But he should merely acknowledge the result.

 

[MikeInVA]

he should merely acknowledge the result.

I would argue that his actions indicate that he acknowledges the result. What is being called for is beyond mere acknowledgement.

Publicly refusing to concede when he’s clearly lost is detrimental to the legitimacy of our institutions.

Again, more nonsense. The legitimacy of our institutions do not rest on a president publicly admitting his defeat. So long as he is doing what needs to be done to allow the transition of power, the legitimacy of our institution remains.

I know he is not emotionally mature enough to really accept it.

How do you know?

 

[TMC]

I would argue that his actions indicate that he acknowledges the result. What is being called for is beyond mere acknowledgement.

No, he does not. He keeps saying he won, over and over. By definition that is not acknowledging the result.

Again, more nonsense. The legitimacy of our institutions do not rest on a president publicly admitting his defeat. So long as he is doing what needs to be done to allow the transition of power, the legitimacy of our institution remains.

I agree that, thus far, our institutions have withstood him. That he has failed in usurping them speaks as much to his weakness as to their strength, however, and I would not rely on a future attempt to subvert our institutions being equally inept.

 

[whatistrue]

How do you know?

From his public behavior, that is there for all to see who will.

 

[Hodos]

Um, is it safe to say that Newsmax has lost its mojo?

No, it means they are actually calling the election results when the election has occurred. We call this accurate reporting. The election is not decided on November 3rd, it is decided after the electoral college meets and selects the President and the results are certified by Congress. It is not wrong for them to wait till the electoral college meets to acknowledge Biden as the President Elect, especially given the confusion surrounding this year’s general election process that violated all previous norms and the inevitable legal challenges that this situation sparked. Nor does it go again their conservative credentials.

 

[whatistrue]

given the confusion surrounding this year’s general election process that violated all previous norms

No. There were more mail-in and early votes, but there weren’t any completely new methods introduced. It was a matter of scale at most, not of kind. And the only reason that legal challenges were “inevitable” is because Trump saw fit to set himself up to whine about fraud before any votes were actually cast based on a false narrative surrounding mail-in balloting.

 

[Hodos]

There were more mail-in and early votes, but there weren’t any completely new methods introduced.

Universal mail in voting is a new method, and actually goes against state law in many states, to include Pennsylvania regardless of how the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled. And there is no doubt that election fraud and irregularities occurred in greater frequency than we have seen in the past. President Trump had every right to contest the results of the election. He was just unable to prove in court that the irregularities were of sufficient scope to change the election results in the states where he was behind and had a reasonable shot of flipping. That being said, every instance of election fraud and irregularity should be addressed by legislative fixes or by sending those guilty of fraud to jail. In that sense, I think the legal challenges were positive.