Article: "Newsmax finally calls election for Biden amid Electoral College vote"

[whatistrue]

Universal mail in voting is a new method

Um, no it isn’t. Oregon and Washington have had universal mail-in voting for all elections for many years, in Oregon’s case for about 22 years now. And those are the only states where mail-in this time was anywhere near “universal”. Not to mention that every state has had absentee mail-in for decades; it’s just that the numbers spiked because a lot of people didn’t want to vote in person on Election Day. Might have something to do with a raging pandemic, but the reason for each individual decision were left up to the individual, as it should be.

And there is no doubt that election fraud and irregularities occurred in greater frequency than we have seen in the past.

On the contrary, there is a great deal of doubt on that. Trump claiming it doesn’t make it true. Rudy going to court over false allegations doesn’t make them true.

Trump had every right to contest the results of the election. He was just unable to prove in court that the irregularities were of sufficient scope to change the election results in the states where he was behind and had a reasonable shot of flipping.

He does have the right to contest the results, if he has evidence that supports the assertion that the result was fraudulent or otherwise improper. He has singularly failed to produce any so far, other than “It must have been rigged if I didn’t win!”. Not just that the “irregularities were of sufficient scope”, but that there was fraud at all. His prime legal eagle even said in court that it wasn’t about fraud, after plastering social media and holding press conferences that did virtually nothing except cry “fraud”.

That being said, every instance of election fraud and irregularity should be addressed by legislative fixes or by sending those guilty of fraud to jail. In that sense, I think the legal challenges were positive.

Did anyone go to jail? How many instances of fraud was his legal team able to prove in court? Have any legislative changes been made, or any in the works?

ETA: The PA Supreme Court ruling had to do with the ability to consider a received ballot as valid based on time of receipt, not with whether mail-in voting was allowed at all.

 

[Hodos]

Um, no it isn’t.

Yes it is. Many states that implemented mail in voting for this election did so despite their own state laws and without legislating this into action. As a result, they did not have adequate verification systems in place to ensure that ballots were sent to updated addresses or to registered voters making it highly susceptible to voter irregularities and fraud, which is what we saw. And there is a fundamental difference between absentee or early voting and universal mail-in voting.

On the contrary, there is a great deal of doubt on that. Trump claiming it doesn’t make it true. Rudy going to court over false allegations doesn’t make them true.

No, a number of credible articles have demonstrated that ballot integrity was not maintained as we have seen small numbers of ballots discarded or sent to the wrong people in a number of locations around the country. The question was not whether this happened. It absolutely did. The question was whether it happened in great enough numbers to invalidate the election or to overturn a significant enough number of votes to result in a change in the election results in individual states.

He does have the right to contest the results, if he has evidence that supports the assertion that the result was fraudulent or otherwise improper.

I am not arguing otherwise. They did produce evidence of irregularities but not of sufficient scope to overturn election results. We know this because there were actual recounts that were conducted voluntarily but not statutorily in places like Georgia, and since the recounts did not result in large enough swings in votes, they could not continue with an argument that fraud or irregularities changed the election results.

Did anyone go to jail?

Yes, there are actually are some people who are being prosecuted. But it happened like five minutes ago, so I am sure that exceeded your attention span. Are any legislative changes in the works? I would have to look this up by locales; however, if we look to Florida as an example, this would be the goal. Florida had several contentious elections under the Bush and Obama regimes that resulted in a number of legal challenges. They fired Donna Brazile and re-tooled their entire election system. As a result they served as a standard this year for providing accurate and timely results.

 

[Hodos]

ETA: The PA Supreme Court ruling had to do with the ability to consider a received ballot as valid based on time of receipt, not with whether mail-in voting was allowed at all.

Yes it did. You are correct about your second point, but that wasn’t the only point argued in PA. While PA law allows for mail-in voting, the law provides that this is only to be used under certain circumstances. It was by executive order that universal mail-in voting occurred and this was challenged. The Supreme Court admitted this is not the correct way to change election law, but voted not to overturn the results to prevent voter disenfranchisement. In other words they agreed with the Trump administration on the process, but they weighed the cons of overturning the election results as a greater evil.

 

[whatistrue]

Many states that implemented

And none of what you brought up makes it a new thing. And again, with a couple of exceptions, the mail-in voting this cycle was far from “universal”. The only difference between absentee mail-in and other mail-in is the reason for mailing it in. Not that fundamental; just a matter of extending the option to more people.

a number of credible articles have demonstrated that ballot integrity was not maintained

There have been reports of isolated incidents of small numbers of ballots going astray. Far from “ballot integrity was not maintained” and more like “hey, humans were involved in the process”.

they could not continue with an argument that fraud or irregularities changed the election results.

And yet the false allegations continued and are being touted even now.

But it happened like five minutes ago, so I am sure that exceeded your attention span.

I expected better from you than ad hominem, especially unsupported and gratuitous ad hominem. I don’t think I have ever called your abilities or personal character into question, have I?

 

[Hodos]

And none of what you brought up makes it a new thing . And again, with a couple of exceptions, the mail-in voting this cycle was far from “universal”. The only difference between absentee mail-in and other mail-in is the reason for mailing it in. Not that fundamental; just a matter of extending the option to more people.

I would say expanding early voting by people who request ballots to shipping out mass ballots without regard to putting into effect protections to guarantee that ballots are sent to people who are eligible and registered to vote is a new thing.

There have been reports of isolated incidents of small numbers of ballots going astray. Far from “ballot integrity was not maintained” and more like “hey, humans were involved in the process”.

In other words, instances of irregularities and fraud were confirmed. That’s all you had to say since you are conceding the point.

And yet the false allegations continued and are being touted even now.

I am fine with disagreeing with allegations that cannot be substantiated. I am not fine with saying that we shouldn’t investigate allegations of fraud or irregularities.

I expected better from you than ad hominem, especially unsupported and gratuitous ad hominem.

Given the AG announced prosecutions for voter fraud like two weeks ago, it appears my characterization was not incorrect. We can disagree on our conclusions, but you don’t get to have your own facts sir by way of willful ignorance.

 

[whatistrue]

That’s all you had to say since you are conceding the point.

Don’t read anything into it that isn’t there.

I am not fine with saying that we shouldn’t investigate

Nor am I, but he liked to repeat allegations that had already been investigated and found to be without merit.

Given the AG announced prosecutions for voter fraud like two weeks ago, it appears my characterization was not incorrect.

Given that I don’t seek out “news” to support the position that there was a problem, and I initially asked it as a question, no your characterization was definitely incorrect and still offensive.

We can disagree on our conclusions, but you don’t get to have your own facts sir by way of willful ignorance.

I don’t have “my own facts”, I asked a simple question and rather than just a simple answer got a lecture from someone who, now that the cat is out of the bag, doesn’t seem to be able to debate in either good faith or civilly. At least when their precious conclusions are disputed.

 

[Wampa]

It is for this reason that January 20th can’t come fast enough for me. I did not vote for Joe Biden and I have serious concerns about a Biden/Harris presidency, but if we can take the senate in Georgia(which Lin Wood and Co. said we shouldn’t vote in ) we can have a firewall against the worst of it.
…
I’m conservative, pro-life, pro-traditional values and voted twice for Trump but he can’t get down the
road fast enough for me now.

I’m in the same boat as you (except I voted for Trump in 2016 and ASP in 2020). I too hope Republicans win in GA to act as a counterweight to a Democratic presidency and House.

I was hoping that Trump would be soundly thumped to allow the party to move on and get back to being normal again. But because the election was close, I don’t see that the party can get away from being a cult of personality, loyalty-above-all entity. It looks to me like Trump will retain effective control of the party, whether that be as a candidate for 2024, or as kingmaker for those who want to run and need his base to succeed.

IMO, over the course of four years, a radical right has been empowered to the point that both parties are now driven by their radical wings. It looks like I am consigned to the political wilderness for a while, after 30 years of mostly Republican voting (with some third party).

 

[Wampa]

No, it means they are actually calling the election results when the election has occurred. We call this accurate reporting. The election is not decided on November 3rd, it is decided after the electoral college meets and selects the President and the results are certified by Congress. It is not wrong for them to wait till the electoral college meets to acknowledge Biden as the President Elect, especially given the confusion surrounding this year’s general election process that violated all previous norms and the inevitable legal challenges that this situation sparked. Nor does it go again their conservative credentials.

I think you might have misunderstood the OP. He wasn’t questioning if they lost their conservative credentials by waiting until now, but rather by doing it this soon. There is a section of the radical right who will bail on Newsmax now for giving up the fight post-Electoral College. For example, from the admin of a pro-Trump Facebook group, lamenting that Newsmax called it yesterday while the Epoch Times is holding off:

“Newsmax = Fox …warned you a few weeks ago they’re Clinton lovers”

 

[Vanny]

I agree with what you said here.
As a pro- life, pro traditional values Christian I have been watching the increasing radicalization
of the left and Democrat party. I’m old enough to remember when it was a blue collar workers party.
The radicalization started it’s seeds in the early 70’s when I was in high school.
Prior to the election I was proud of how Trump had seemingly expanded the Republican party
and made it more diverse. Now there are some on the radical right coming to the fore. I’m not talking about conservative pro life pro family Christians, I’m talking about what I’ve seen since the election, Lin Wood, and his followers. And yes, as you said, there is that loyalty above all faction which is scary.
I, too, prayed for months that whoever won the election would do so by a landslide so there would be no contested election. Unfortunately that didn’t happen.

 

[MikeInVA]

Now there are some on the radical right coming to the fore.

They are the exception, not the rule. And remember, just because a group says that it supports Trump, that isn’t the same as Trump supporting the group.

 

[Vanny]

Yes that is true, I agree, and I would have said as much prior to the election.
MY concern is with Lin Wood urging the President to implement martial law(not that he would do it)and the growing number of those in agreement such as Mike Flynn(which saddens me) and 2 State Senators.

 

[Petra202]

That statement says SO much!

 

[Vico]

Vico:

Joint Session Challenges to Electoral Vote Returns

This is a rubber stamp as you well know.
…

For January 6, 2021, since alternate electors were chosen in seven states, and the certified votes were not “regularly given”, the alternates may be substituted by election of the legislature, which is Republican. This is per Title 3 of the U.S. Code.

 

[Freddy]

Wha? Uh? Not what? Regularly given? Wassthatsupposedtonmean?

 

[Vico]

Wha? Uh? Not what? Regularly given? Wassthatsupposedtonmean?

The is some irregularity.

In 1969, Richard M. Nixon said:

It is our position that the vote of the faithless elector of North Carolina was not “regularly given” and that it should not be counted.

Similarly in 2005 there were “numerous, serious election irregularities,” leading to “a significant disenfranchisement of voters.”

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Wha? Uh? Not what? Regularly given? Wassthatsupposedtonmean?

The is some irregularity.

In 1969, Richard M. Nixon said:

It is our position that the vote of the faithless elector of North Carolina was not “regularly given” and that it should not be counted.

Similarly in 2005 there were “numerous, serious election irregularities,” leading to “a significant disenfranchisement of voters.”

I heard about claims that there might have been irregularities in this election. I think over 50 courts, numerous attorneys general, state supreme courts, the federal attorney general, the federal supreme court, the FBI and the federal organisation that is specifically required to check all elections all said there was no problem.

I think the verdict is in, Vico. The votes were ‘regularly given’. Unless you know of some evidence that no-one has been party to as yet? Can you let us know about it?

 

[Rasoleil]

Very interesting hypothetical that you came up with
Or it could be more like the Proud Boys or neo-Nazis storming into a restaurant and demanding that patrons stand and say: “Heil Hitler!” Or " Jews will not replace us!", like in Charlottesville a few years agom

 

[MikeInVA]

Or it could be more like the Proud Boys or neo-Nazis storming into a restaurant and demanding that patrons stand and say: “Heil Hitler!” Or " Jews will not replace us!", like in Charlottesville a few years agom

I didn’t realize that they entered restaurants and demanded patrons say such things. Maybe I missed that news article?

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I didn’t realize that they entered restaurants and demanded patrons say such things. Maybe I missed that news article?

I don’t think that ever happened.

 

[MikeInVA]

I don’t think that ever happened.

No, but it is now a fact in some people’s minds.