JohnStrachan
New member
There we go, just push them back in the closet and everything will be okay.
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phil19034
Guest
I don’t think it has anything to do with people with SSA. I think the Post Vatican II Church (and that includes the laity) has failed to promote vocations period, esp to the the consecrated life and the Lay Secular Orders.
People with SSA are not the only single Catholic group. There are divorcees, widow/ers who don’t wish to remarry, etc. In a way, the post Vatican II church has failed them all by not promoting the wonderful programs the Church has.
It’s ironic because Vatican II called for the Laity to become more active. But instead of become more active in the consecrated life, people seemed to become more fixated on being EMHCs, Lectors, on committees, etc than joining the consecrated life.
For example, I’m discerning to become an Lay Dominican. One sister said there used to be 60 of them at every meeting. Now they are lucky if have 11. How many Catholics even know about Third Orders? I’m 41… I didn’t know until a few years ago.
Someone who isn’t married can sometimes feel very unwelcome at a parish. Same with people like me who are married to non-Catholics. But consecrated communities and third orders can make all the difference in the world!
But I one (SSA or straight) is going to join if they don’t know they exist
God Bless
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OnAJourney
Guest
What about V2 do you think has led to that? Why have the Church and the laity not done enough to adequately promote things like Consecrated life or the secular orders?
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OnAJourney
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What exactly should the laity do to get more people involved with the secular orders?
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phil19034
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I’m sorry, but that’s the attitude that Catholics have had for too long that have resulted in the need for the New Evangelization.
We are called to go out and spread the Gospel to all nations. Not to sit back and say if someone seeks hard enough they will find the Church.
No, we are supposed to seek them out. Not wait for them to seek us out.
Why are Religious orders dying? Because far too many of them sit back and wait for people to seek them out. Why are our Parishes closing, because too many lay Catholics AND PRIESTS wait for new parishenors to seek them out instead of going out and seeking new parishenors.
If Catholics are not excited enough to share why they are Catholic and invite others back to mass or to a lay group, then people are just going to keep leaving.
God likes us to cooperate with Him in salvation. He doesn’t do it all Himself.
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prayerrider
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I may have felt that from time to time. Then I have to realize, that’s my pride. I can go to any parish, not talk to anyone before or after Mass, but still experience the Holy Eucharist, and be more than content with that. Conversely, I can go around complaining that people aren’t making me feel welcome. But there is always one Person who is always welcoming. So is His Holy Mother. If that doesn’t satisfy me, then I have to examine my own faith, and in whom I’m putting my faith. Thomas a Kempis is strident about the danger of putting our faith in other people, versus putting our faith in Jesus Christ. More people should read The Imitation of Christ. More people should read The Way by St. Josemaria Escriva. It’s all in there.
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PJH_74
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I absolutely support you. The obsession comes not from people like you, it is a small but vocal section of society that does. I can understand concerns that come from a real commitment to a person’s well being. The problem comes when people intrude with the idea that because you make me uncomfortable, you are wrong. You can sling around the Bible all you like on LGBTQ issues; but I guarantee there are tenets in it that are ignored or considered immoral by today’s society. While I don’t agree with the Church’s teaching on transgendered people, I think it come from a position of imperfectly informed concern.
It’s things like these “bathroom bills” that get passed in special congressional sessions simply for political points. Seriously, are we going to have to carry our birth certificates around with us? There are transgender people who have successfully had their birth certificates revised. Are we taking into account transgender people who fill their chosen gender role incredibly well? …explain that to your child. We have enough laws to cover this, it’s called mind your own business and leave each other alone.
I wish we were at a point where LGBTQ people did not have to defend themselves in society. I’m glad you can express disinterest in hearing people’s justification for their lives regardless of their situation. I wish it were so in general. I’d only ask that you give a little more leeway, for now, to those who live in LGBTQ situations because society challenges them so much.
God bless.
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OnAJourney
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You understand that other people experience their faith differently to you, yes? Perhaps you feel that way, others however do not.
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phil19034
Guest
I don’t think it was Vatican II itself. But Vatican II opened more ways to participate in the parish that didn’t exist before. Therefore, I think you had more people participating in parish ministry instead of joining lay groups. Also, around Vatican II, there was a major push in America to close Catholic social groups. Catholics were encouraged to join social groups with non-Catholics. So things like Catholic Bowling Leagues closed, people stopped praying the Rosary for a while, etc. Joining the Consecrated life was just another thing they stopped doing out of the push to end Catholic only groups.
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prayerrider
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Other people don’t put their faith in Jesus Christ alone?
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OnAJourney
Guest
That’s not the point I’m trying to make. The point I’m making is that it’s easy for you to say how you experience faith, you can’t then expect the same from others. I think your Achilles heel is your inability to put yourself in the shoes of another person. Each person has their own unique relationship with God. What works for you may not work for others
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prayerrider
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I strongly encourage you to read at least the first book of The Imitation of Christ. And with that, adios.
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phil19034
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You are killing me here.phil19034:
I may have felt that from time to time. Then I have to realize, that’s my pride. I can go to any parish, not talk to anyone before or after Mass, but still experience the Holy Eucharist, and be more than content with that. Conversely, I can go around complaining that people aren’t making me feel welcome. But there is always one Person who is always welcoming. So is His Holy Mother. If that doesn’t satisfy me, then I have to examine my own faith, and in whom I’m putting my faith. Thomas a Kempis is strident about the danger of putting our faith in other people, versus putting our faith in Jesus Christ. More people should read The Imitation of Christ. More people should read The Way by St. Josemaria Escriva. It’s all in there.
YES - I’m 100% with you. I would do the same thing. But that’s me, that’s you.
However, that’s NOT how you evangelize. There are people who can’t even name the 4 Gospels, let alone even know who Thomas a Kempis is. Heck, I never even heard of St Josemaria Escriva growing up. I only learned his name after the Divinci Code movie!
I think there are still many Catholics who fail to understand how BAD child catechesis and evangelization were during the 70, 80, & 90s.
After 6 years of CCD, I learned the following: the Our Father, half of the Hail Mary, and that God loves me. That’s pretty much it. Zero on the Saints. Zero on Marian devotion, etc. I think we learned a bit about the stories in the Gospels, but learned NOTHING about being Catholic.
We have to start at ZERO. We really need to be running RCIA like programs for everyone. But the difference usually is that people join RCIA when they WANT to learn something about the Church.
Far too many Catholics already think they know what it’s like to be Catholic after 12 years of Catholic school, but they wouldn’t be able to tell you if St Thomas the Apostle, St Thomas Aquinus, St Thomas a Becket, and Thomas a Kempis were all the same person, 2 persons, 3 persons or 4 persons. And if the guessed 4, they surely couldn’t tell you about all 4.
It’s really that bad.
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phil19034
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Tell people they exist. Advertise.
Example: I heard one person in my parish talking about how our parish did this one program in their Saturday morning prayer group. And I wanted to respond by saying “what Saturday morning parish group”?!?
I’m the Chair of my parish’s Evangelization and Adult Faith group and I had never even heard of this group. How can it be a parish program if no one knows it exists?!?!
Knights of Columbus- same way in my Parish. Never once do they make announcements regarding how to join, what they do, etc. It’s ridiculous that people have research and work hard at figuring out how to join.
Heck, my Parish has a Cub Scout pack, never hear how to join the pack or what they are up too. Also, rarely ever hear anything about CYO sports at my parish either.
My parish (for example) is HORRIBLE at communication. And for some reason, the whole Church frankly is too.
The thing that drives me nuts about the Catholic Church is that we are the most unorganized, highly organized Religion on the planet.
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blackforest
Well-known member
You have my sympathies. Hopefully the Birth Control Police didn’t get on your case . . .
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prayerrider
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I’m pretty aware of that. That’s why I started back helping out in youth ministry. It’s a critical age. But as of the first and only LifeTeen meeting so far, I was quite impressed by the faith of those who chose to share. I think there is hope, where there is such faith. Faith will seek understanding. That’s why they’re there. And they teach me as well, more than they probably know.
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Thorolfr
Guest
It’s true that a straight man is not attracted to every woman but whoever he ends up being attracted to, it will almost certainly still be a woman and not a man. And a gay man will not be attracted to very man, but whoever he end up being attracted to will nonetheless probably still be a man and not a woman. And if a straight man is attracted to lots of women and is a sex addict, he will nonetheless still probably be having sex with lots of women, not lots of men, etc. etc.
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phil19034
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Oh I agree. The programs for youth now are awesome. But my generation (Generation X) and the Millennials that are pretty lost. So that’s a lot of kids who are not coming to Church today because we managed to screw up two generations.
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prayerrider
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Communication is often an issue in many parishes. Recognizing this, it’s up to me to initiate it, to make sure communication is clear. It’s really only a small mortification, in the big scheme of salvation, eh?
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phil19034
Guest
Yes, which is why I say “we”
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