As a gay (SSA) Catholic, I'm exhausted

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CCHcolonel said:
Right, but what is there to fear about being gay in the Catholic Church if no one knows you’re gay?
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What if they find out? What if you slip up and make a mistake? Then, you’re living in fear. This is also like telling someone to keep it a secret. Which, I don’t do “gay pride” at all. There’s a gray area somewhere in between never telling anyone and waving a gay pride flag around. You might just tell a few people you have same-sex attraction. Maybe one of those people mentions it to someone who loves writing letters to Church Militant and has views that are “more Catholic than the Pope” on it. Ie: They don’t believe what the Church teaches.

I personally might want to teach at a Catholic school down the road. I have ssa and am trying to live according to Church teaching. What if people’s parents wonder why I’m not married. What if people try to set me up with women? Can I respond by telling them I have same-sex attraction (which seems reasonable to me). But here on CAF I’ll be encouraged to make up excuses and basically lie. Dance a dance where its not quite lying but its not saying anything. “I’d rather not say”. Its no way to live your life IMO. I’m an honest man and I’m also a bad liar.

I’ll close on Scripture. In the Bible the Apostle Paul says they turned from their sins “the drunken, the fornicators, and the boy prostitutes”, etc. People in the Early Church were fine with worshipping with and being part of a Church where there were the former boy prostitutes. Not really different at all from former female prostitutes.
Yeah, maybe neither should be broadcasting that they used to be a prostitute. But, I think its a cultural difference between there’s and ours. I think that the whole ‘hush hush’ discreet additude that we have towards this is a product of modern American culture. And not a product of our faith.

Show me the Bible and the Church teaching where someone is expected and encouraged to keep something like this a secret from everyone while they teach or work somewhere for 40 years. This is my view, because me keeping it a secret from people has done nothing but put up walls between me and other people. Other Catholic people, in my Church, who I’m sure would’ve been nothing but supportive of me in my walk with Christ. That’s what I feel I missed out on.
laylow said:
I think the current status of the topic being one of a hot button politically has a huge impact on how outspoken people tend to be in voicing their opinions.
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Abortion is a hot button topic too. I think Catholics know when they’re talking to a woman who’s had an abortion, its entirely different than speaking to a pro-choice activist. Same thing. I think even though its a hot button political issue, pretty much everyone is going to talk to the single gay man who’s attending Mass with them differently than they would someone who’s dressed up to go to a gay pride parade. I have faith that most people are able to approach those different situations appropriately.
 
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It gives glory to God. Here’s a better example than your redheads example: I know in several different churches men who everyone knows overcame a drug problem or an alcohol problem. They don’t broadcast it everywhere. But, later, after you meet them, someone tells me that “oh yeah, they were a drug addict for a while, before they became religious, etc. And now look at them. They’re a deacon, they’re a Knight of Columbus, etc. etc.”.

So, that’s my example. Why couldn’t that happen with gay members of the Church? I could rant on, I already pointed to the Scripture in my previous post. And that’s the most important thing. The Church didn’t used to be like this, or else how would anyone know there were former boy prostitutes among them? If they were keeping it “only inside the confessional”. Doesn’t seem to be how the Early Church treated these matters…
 
Thorolfr said:
What is “our current understanding of same sex attraction”?
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I’m not a sociologist so it won’t be easy for me to explain it. Also I’ll admit some scientists believe there may be a genetic factor. Basically humans don’t have strong instincts the way animals do and most of our behaviour is learned. We learn that there are ways to satisfy our sexual desires and our need for companionship, but it might be that we learn a way that society/God disapproves of. But knowing about this disapproval doesn’t automatically make someone switch to different ways; it’s sort of like they are trapped by their own labeling of themselves as gay.

Anyway, even if this explanation itself is way off, there is some anecdotal evidence of people who were gay from a young age and were able to change.
Tis_Bearself said:
And if you can’t realize how insensitive and just plain wrong it is for you to post this in this thread here, you need to perhaps take a break and think about it some more.
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No, you have to spell it out. It’s not fair to say “this idea can’t be discussed here” without giving a reason why, especially since I’m just trying to help. (Alternatively, I would accept the word of the OP himself on this.)
 
You can’t be a righteous example of an orthodox Catholic who struggles with homosexuality, if half the people on this thread don’t want you to tell a single soul you have SSA outside of confession.
Or “how would anyone even know you had SSA?” As they said…

“why would you go around saying that? I wouldn’t go around saying _____”

Well, then there aren’t going to be any righteoous examples that (name removed by moderator) talks about. There are few gay people who are even going to any Church. They’re one of the most secular groups in our country. The Catholic Church needs to have role models for them. To show them: its not impossible. Just like the saints are for us: they did it. They are our role models.
 
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Why is a separate role model needed for every specific category of sexual temptation? St. Anthony should be good enough for anyone.
 
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I still don’t buy the ‘Church doesn’t want me to be openly gay’ argument that the OP seems to have left us with.

I stated above that gay Catholics have a wide variety of individuals and groups they can look at.

On one side of the spectrum there are men like Joseph Sciambra, who has made it his life to minister to other men who are deep into a destructive lifestyle like he was before his conversion.

On the other side there’s groups like New Ways Ministry, which takes a heterodox approach and wants the Church to change teachings on this issue.

There’s the Courage Apostolate, for gay Catholics wanting support to live chastely.

There are many anonymous individuals in between, simply trying to live in chastity like everyone else.
 
If only the Church would change its teachings to accommodate everyone’s specific vice.
 
We all have our crosses to bare. Mine are incredibly hard. Everyone’s are incredibly hard. God gave me my crosses knowing I could carry them and they purify and humble me. Everyone’s crosses do that. I could not carry the cross of SSA. Someone with SSA could probably not carry my crosses. We all are given crosses we can carry, as hard as they are.

And as such, we must reach everyone in their own stories through mercy, compassion, and love which we see perfectly through Jesus on the Cross.
 
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prayerrider said:
Why is a separate role model needed for every specific category of sexual temptation? St. Anthony should be good enough for anyone.
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Its not a negligible group of people. It would be like saying black people don’t need any black saints. Its a sizeable group of people. They’re called to sainthood. And their struggle is unique. They’re not able to enter into marriage, unlike heterosexual people. So, its unique.

Depends on how that information is revealed does one toute it around like some sort of achievement or regalia pinned to their clothing?

Does the scriptures not say to confess our sins to one another?

There are plenty of times that it might come up in a conversation casually about vocations or marriage etc and one could truthfully answer that they struggle with this particular cross.

Some of the early Church Fathers who were monastics were homosexual.

It’s not the condition it’s how one reveals ones condition and how one carries one’s condition.
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No, I don’t think it should be touted around. No, there shouldn’t be regalia pinned to our clothing. Nothing about being part of the “gay community” or whatever.

Yes the scriptures do say to confess our sins to one another

There are saints who are believed to be homosexual, or thought to be homosexual. None of them are patron saints of gay people yet. And, I mean, none of them are even well known for that. Point in case: you didn’t actually name any names. Like “Oh, St. so and so”. Everyone knows that he is a good saint for people with same-sex attraction. There’s not even one saint like that right now.

Yeah, I agree with you. It should be able to be brought up when marriage/ vocations/ relationships are brought up. Because they are. “Oh are you interested in dancing with so and so?” I should be able to tell my friends why they shouldn’t be trying to set me up at a dance or something like that.

As @Vanitas Vanitatum said to your other post, on CAF there are a good deal of SSA Catholics trying to be holy and doing what the Church says. Even if the vast majority of gay people are secular, the Church is called to evangelize and witness to them. The Church is hugely losing the battle on this issue. The more gay people we can convince the better. And what do all the sayings harp on? “Preach the gospel to them by your life, by your actions”.

There are already lots of people saying they know or they meet faithful SSA Catholics at their Churches. Thats all I’m saying. Like, if that’s not raising any eyebrows, and if that’s a good thing, then we can’t also be saying, “Don’t tell anyone you have SSA outside of confession”.
When Orthodox Catholics are of course saying, “yeah, I know a guy with SSA at my parish and he’s fighting the good fight”
 
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Fets said:
They’re not able to enter into marriage, unlike heterosexual people
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That’s just how it is. God ordained marriage one way, and only one way. He also decreed that our bodies age and die. So what?
 
Tis_Bearself said:
If a person wants to say “I’m Gay” or use the word “Gay” or “Queer” or “LGBT” etc then that’s their choice to make.
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It is not good to do as a Catholic; these labels are defined by agenda-driven ideologies that are coming from the culture of death. Spiritually, the family is under attack by Satan who seeks to divide and destroy families, destroy marriage, and destroy what it means to be male and female itself. The same crowd pushing the abortion movement, re-defining marriage, institutionalizing sodomy, celebrating immorality, teaching gender theory, perverting little boys telling them it is okay to choose to be girls, etc. is the same crowd beg]hind the LGBTQ labels. So don’t be fooled. this world you are either defending the truth or working for Satan’s side…
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St. Anthony didn’t complain. He fought his temptations, his demons and prayed, and prayed, and prayed. He suffered terribly. But he triumphed. What a great role model for all who are called to single celibacy! What a great role model for all!
 
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Gab123 said:
It is not good to do as a Catholic; these labels are defined by agenda-driven ideologies that are coming from the culture of death. Spiritually, the family is under attack by Satan who seeks to divide and destroy families, destroy marriage, and destroy what it means to be male and female itself.
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I’m a man that happens to be gay, and I will choose to use the term gay if I so please. I attend mass regularly, I’m going through RCIA and I take it upon myself to live by Church teaching each and everyday. I am not siding with Satan, I’m using a single term that you don’t like in relation to an aspect of my own personal identity. I don’t make that aspect of my identity all of what I am, it’s simply a part of me.
 
I don’t think it’s the place of other Catholics to tell me about myself and my own faith.
 
So you’re called to single, celibate chastity. Rejoice! It is the highest calling!
 
Gab123 said:
The same crowd pushing the abortion movement, re-defining marriage, institutionalizing sodomy, celebrating immorality, teaching gender theory, perverting little boys telling them it is okay to choose to be girls, etc. is the same crowd beg]hind the LGBTQ labels. So don’t be fooled. this world you are either defending the truth or working for Satan’s side…
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Words like “gay” and “lesbian” have been around for a while. “Gay” has been used to refer to homosexual men since at least the 1950s and for most gay people, it was an improvement over many of the other insulting words that straight people had been using to describe them. I’m not sure what you mean by “institutionalizing sodomy,” but it’s much better now for gay people than what it was 50 years ago when many of them lived in fear of losing their jobs, or being harassed or beat up, or even of being arrested. Many of them felt that they had to keep their sexual orientation a secret from their families. Because homosexuality was considered a mental illness, some were subjected to various barbaric treatments to try and make them straight. I doubt that even most religiously devout and chaste people with SSA would want to go back to the way things used to be.
 
Fets said:
ts not a negligible group of people. It would be like saying black people don’t need any black saints. Its a sizeable group of people. They’re called to sainthood. And their struggle is unique. They’re not able to enter into marriage, unlike heterosexual people. So, its unique.
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Whether people want to realize it or not, every single Saint who lived a life of chastity and celibacy is an example to everyone.

The Virgin Saints are the best role models for homosexuals. They ignored any sexual desires that they may have had and lived a life of chastity.

Sexual orientation doesn’t matter. All that matters is chastity.
 
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