So it is a sin to identify as a homosexual?
If identifying as a homosexual means “I want to have sex with a man” then yes.
If identifying as a homosexual means “I struggle against SS temptations” then no.
My point is that those who identify as homosexuals usually are the first category. They don’t view the desire as a temptation towards evil.
Or do you believe the whole “there is no such thing as a homosexual person” angle, even though the Pope himself uses the word “homosexual”?
I don’t like to identify a person by their sinful inclinations – for myself I find it better to think of the person in goodness and wholeness and not defined by their flaws.
You seem to be using the latter definition, for how can you have a desire to have a desire?
I can desire an impure relationship with someone. I can desire to lust. Jesus said that was a sin.
But is it the truth that “it is a sin even to identify as a homosexual” even though you and many other are claiming that is the Church position?
As I said, it’s a sin to consciously desire a sexual relationship with a person of the same sex. If identifying oneself as a homosexual means that the person suffers from temptations to that particular sin, then I think it’s not a virtuous way to refer to oneself. We should go around saying that we are what our sins are. It can be a good practice for humility but we should show care for ourselves and not ignore or dimiss the good things God is doing in us to help build virtue.
Yes, many saints publicly referred to themselves as sinners - but this is best done in a general sense.
If identifying as a homosexual is used in this way, to humiliate oneself, that could be a good thing, but shouldn’t be done without advice from one’s spiritual director.
Hopefully I will not offend gay people with this example, but many alcoholics, even those who have abstained from alcohol for years, will go to AA meetings and state “I am an alcoholic”. Is that a sin, too, to identify as an alcoholic, even if you are not drinking?
That’s a very good example, and yes you’re right.
If a person is equating homosexuality with a sexual-addiction that they need to make public for reasons of accountability, then that’s a good theraputic technique.
It would be a sin for an alcoholic to consciously and deliberately (as it is for anyone, alcoholic or not) want to get drunk. The same is true for the homosexual.
Those in AA also will be open about another factor. “Hi, I’m an alcoholic. I’ve been sober for 4 years.”
A person with homosexual inclinations could say the same: “I’m a homosexual who has been chaste/sober for 4 years”.
If you think the self-identification of homosexuality should be limited to cases like that, I’ll fully support you.
And while the Church doesn’t teach that drinking alcohol is a sin, it DOES teach that drunkenness is a sin, and most alcoholics have an inclination to not only drink but to get drunk. So should we come up with some other term for being an alcoholic, such as “intoxicating beverage attraction”?
Not following this. Alcoholic is a fine term for what you’re talking about - addiction to drunkenness.
If you want “homosexual” to mean “addiction to sinful sexual behavior” that sounds good to me.
ETA: And to make this even more simple: It is a sin to sin, but it is NOT a sin to identify as a sinner, is it? Or should we say we are all sin-attracted, instead?
Again, certainly. I was using a different sense of the word homosexual which, in society today, does not mean “I am addicted to sinful sexual behavior”.
If homosexual meant that, then it’s not a sin to say it. We could debate if it is the best way to refer to ourselves (I do debate the life-time label given to alcoholics in AA, but it does seem to work on a practical level so this is a prudential judgement) by going around announcing our predominant temptation or sin pattern, but it can have a good effect.
Yes, we are all sin-attracted, but as I said before, I think it’s better in giving glory to God and thanks for the good things He does for us to focus on how He helps us overcome our sins and become a New Creature in Christ!
But nonetheless – good thoughts and you offered many good things to think about.
Thanks