Ask a Pagan

  • Thread starter Thread starter Skadi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
SteveVH said:
If the OP imagines that his/her answers/beliefs should not be challenged then he/she is on the wrong forum. Otherwise I suppose one could just give a statement of beliefs to anyone interested and call it a day. This forum is exactly for discussion and debate. What is it that you think the OP wanted to accomplish?
Click to expand...
The OP made it clear what the intent of the topic was, both in his initial post and in a recent response. What I’m referring to does not amount to discussion and debate but essentially tangents on specifics of Catholicism, Christianity and baited attempts with erroneous assumption that his gods, practices and beliefs being “false”. It would be the same as a Catholic attempting earnest dialog on a non-Catholic board and being swarmed with a lot of anti-Catholic assumptions with individuals demonstrating they’re not focused on “discussion and debate”, as they have no intent of actually learning something factual about Catholicism because they fully intend to remain dismissive and negating about it regardless of what is “discussed” and “debated”. I.e., both scenarios become an exercise in futility and a wasted effort.

There’s a difference between debate and simply arguing or baiting because one really has no interest in gaining knowledge or understanding of something that differs from his own. Again, imagine the roles reversed. Multiple posts detouring into Catholic discussion really have nothing to do with “Ask A Pagan” about Pagan practices or discussion on what one has not heard of before or wants to better understand. After all, this entire board is dedicated to Catholicism (which I’ve enjoyed reading through), with already plenty of worthwhile discussions that go in-depth about Catholic belief. So doing similarly in a topic that was allowed to be created for the purpose of hearing about non-Catholic practices just derails the intended conversation (as the OP indicates in his recent response).

Some amount of comparison is inevitable and expected when two distinct views are being presented. But for much of this topic, that hasn’t happened.
 
Kallisto said:
The OP made it clear what the intent of the topic was, both in his initial post and in a recent response. What I’m referring to does not amount to discussion and debate but essentially tangents on specifics of Catholicism, Christianity and baited attempts with erroneous assumption that his gods, practices and beliefs being “false”. It would be the same as a Catholic attempting earnest dialog on a non-Catholic board and being swarmed with a lot of anti-Catholic assumptions with individuals demonstrating they’re not focused on “discussion and debate”, as they have no intent of actually learning something factual about Catholicism because they fully intend to remain dismissive and negating about it regardless of what is “discussed” and “debated”. I.e., both scenarios become an exercise in futility and a wasted effort.

There’s a difference between debate and simply arguing or baiting because one really has no interest in gaining knowledge or understanding of something that differs from his own. Again, imagine the roles reversed. Multiple posts detouring into Catholic discussion really have nothing to do with “Ask A Pagan” about Pagan practices or discussion on what one has not heard of before or wants to better understand. After all, this entire board is dedicated to Catholicism (which I’ve enjoyed reading through), with already plenty of worthwhile discussions that go in-depth about Catholic belief. So doing similarly in a topic that was allowed to be created for the purpose of hearing about non-Catholic practices just derails the intended conversation (as the OP indicates in his recent response).

Some amount of comparison is inevitable and expected when two distinct views are being presented. But for much of this topic, that hasn’t happened.
Click to expand...
:clapping: :tiphat:

Sadly, I think you’ll see the longer you’re here that that ideal only lasts the first few pages of a thread…🤷
 
joe371 said:
You just said that the “is all” (pantheistic entity) is the only perfect being which makes the is all more powerful. Right? In other words, the “Gods are simply the most powerful personal entity’s in the universe” but the “is all” created the universe, which means the “is all” existed prior to the creation of the universe?
Click to expand...
Well I would imagine, unless you can present another explanation.
 
vsedriver said:
why are they worthy of respect and worship? If they are imperfect like me, why don’t you worship me?
Click to expand...
Because we are men, whereas they are deitys, representing huge chunks of the Is All. They are the faces of the Is All, revealing universal truth.
 
Formosus said:
Not that I am a Pagan, but I am quite familiar with ancient paganism.

So my question is why do you say the gods are imperfect or immoral beings? Wouldn’t an easier explanation be that the poets either misrepresented the gods because of human weakness, or that the surface meaning of the poems is not the true meaning, but rather an allegorical meaning must be taken in order to teach a metaphysical or moral truth?

This gets to my question though, what philosophic basis do you use to defend your Germanic paganism? Perhaps I missed it since I haven’t read through the whole thread.
Click to expand...
Well I dont take the Eddas lieteraly. The earth wasn’t made from the body of a dead giant. But imperfection is part of the universe, and so are the gods. Things like violence, greed, hate, and anger arnt unatural things sent apon the universe by some great evil force (Satan/Original sin) but totally natural and part of nature.

And I dont think I understand your last question. Im a soft-polytheist if that helps.
 
Skadi said:
Well I would imagine, unless you can present another explanation.
Click to expand...
It is either the “Is All” (Pantheistic Entity, something you believe) or God (something I believe) that is responsible for the creation of time and space and everything in it. Why not give thanks and devote all of your efforts toward worshipping the creator, as opposed to the giving thanks and worshipping mere created beings you call the “gods”? The “gods” were created by the “Is All” in your opinion - right? Where did you get the term “Is All” from?
 
What do you mean by worship? Intended for the OP but open to any. Please explain thoroughly as I’m a simple country boy.

Also, to the OP, have you ever played the computer game Dominions? I keep reading your name here as Skrati and wonder if you are going to turn into a giant werewolf. 😃
 
mek42 said:
What do you mean by worship? Intended for the OP but open to any. Please explain thoroughly as I’m a simple country boy.
Click to expand...
Reverent honor and homage paid to God (or a sacred entity such as the “Is All”).
 
joe371 said:
It is either the “Is All” (Pantheistic Entity, something you believe) or God (something I believe) that is responsible for the creation of time and space and everything in it. Why not give thanks and devote all of your efforts toward worshipping the creator, as opposed to the giving thanks and worshipping mere created beings you call the “gods”? The “gods” were created by the “Is All” in your opinion - right? Where did you get the term “Is All” from?
Click to expand...
They are parts of the Is All, the personal faces to an impersonal entity. Worshiping them is worshiping the Is All.
 
mek42 said:
What do you mean by worship? Intended for the OP but open to any. Please explain thoroughly as I’m a simple country boy.

Also, to the OP, have you ever played the computer game Dominions? I keep reading your name here as Skrati and wonder if you are going to turn into a giant werewolf. 😃
Click to expand...
Honoring them through toasts and sacrifices, and recognizing their power. And dont worry so am I.

And no haha Skadi is the Germanic goddess of skiing, winter, and the hunt, although I wouldn’t mind being able to turn into a wolf.
 
Skadi said:
They are parts of the Is All, the personal faces to an impersonal entity. Worshiping them is worshiping the Is All.
Click to expand...
Where does the term “Is All” come from? I think I’ve heard in Wicca about the “All”, but I’ve never heard the term “Is All” before.
 
Skadi said:
Because we are men, whereas they are deitys, representing huge chunks of the Is All. They are the faces of the Is All, revealing universal truth.
Click to expand...
what universal truth have they revealed?

frankly I see no reason to bother with these dieties. I haven’t suffered from any of their capriciousness, nor have I benefited. And infact it sounds like they are nothing more than creatures like myself. I prefer to give my time to “that than which nothing greater can be thought”.
 
Skadi said:
They are parts of the Is All, the personal faces to an impersonal entity. Worshiping them is worshiping the Is All.
Click to expand...
This sounds like a different understanding of the Catholic Trinity Mystery seen through the eyes of a culture that developed independently of the JudeoChristian tradition.
 
Another way of describing the “Is All” is with the analogy of a diamond.

The one creator force of the universe, what many call God, capital G, can be seen as a diamond. Each facet of the diamond is a particular aspect of God which, in paganism and other non-Christian religions, are called gods, small g, or deities.

For instance, God creates, God sustains, God can destroy, God can forgive, God can love, God can punish, etc.

(Stay with me on this, Catholics, LOL. 😉 )

Each facet has been called by many names, by other cultures. For instance, the aspect of God that loves is called Krishna in Hinduism, Venus to the Romans, Aphrodite to the Greeks, Hathor to the Egyptians, Aine to celtic/Irish pagans, Jesus to the Christians, and on and on.

The aspect of God that controls the sky or some part of the weather is called Vayu in Hindusim, Amun to the Egyptians, Taranis to celtic pagans, Apollo to the Greeks, Tianquiztli to the Aztecs, and on and on.

Not every single pagan or non-Christian sees it in exactly this way, but it is a common method of explaining what the difference is between God capital G the One God, and gods small g aka deities.

I myself believe in one God (wow, I’m a monotheist), of which a spark is present in all of creation (panentheist), and has many different roles or aspects in the universe, and which I recognize are called different names by diferent cultures.

I hope this is helpful.
 
mlamg said:
Another way of describing the “Is All” is with the analogy of a diamond.

The one creator force of the universe, what many call God, capital G, can be seen as a diamond. Each facet of the diamond is a particular aspect of God which, in paganism and other non-Christian religions, are called gods, small g, or deities.

For instance, God creates, God sustains, God can destroy, God can forgive, God can love, God can punish, etc. Catholics see only 3 aspects of God, in Father , Son, and Holy Spirit. Pagans and some other non-Christians see many, many aspects. So the clover leaf was St. Patrick’s analogy for Christians. The diamond is a pagan analogy.

(Stay with me on this, Catholics, LOL. 😉 )

Each facet has been called by many names, by other cultures. For instance, the aspect of God that loves is called Krishna in Hinduism, Venus to the Romans, Aphrodite to the Greeks, Hathor to the Egyptians, Aine to celtic/Irish pagans, Jesus to the Christians, and on and on.

The aspect of God that controls the sky or some part of the weather is called Vayu in Hindusim, Amun to the Egyptians, Taranis to celtic pagans, Apollo to the Greeks, Tianquiztli to the Aztecs, and on and on.

Not every single pagan or non-Christian sees it in exactly this way, but it is a common method of explaining what the difference is between God capital G the One God, and gods small g aka deities.

I myself believe in one God (wow, I’m a monotheist), of which a spark is present in all of creation (panentheist), and has many different roles or aspects in the universe, and which I recognize are called different names by diferent cultures.

I hope this is helpful.
Click to expand...
 
Catholics see only 3 aspects of God, in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Pagans and some non-Christians see numerous aspects. Whereas the clover leaf was St. Patrick’s analogy or teaching tool to describe the 3 aspects of God aka the Trinity, the diamond is a pagan teaching tool to describe the numerous aspects of God.
 
LivingWaters7 said:
Where does the term “Is All” come from? I think I’ve heard in Wicca about the “All”, but I’ve never heard the term “Is All” before.
Click to expand...
All, Is All, “The Everything”, ect. they are all just names for a pantheistic entity. It dosnt per say have an official name, like YHWH or any other personal deity, the names are descriptive. I prefer “Is All” because well, it IS ALL. from the smallest microbe to the largest spiritual entity it is all life, all energy.
 
mek42 said:
This sounds like a different understanding of the Catholic Trinity Mystery seen through the eyes of a culture that developed independently of the JudeoChristian tradition.
Click to expand...
Indeed, In High school my theology teacher told the class a story that I actuary like alot and often use to illustrate to Catholics how beyond our understanding the Is All is.

“One day St. Augustine was wandering down a beach thinking deeply on the nature of the trinity. He came across a young boy who was trying to fill a small hole in the sand with water from the ocean. The boy said he would put all of the ocean into the small hole. St. Augustine told the child he couldn’t possibly fit the whole sea in the hole, and the boy replied “I put the whole sea in this hole before you understand the trinity” and disappeared.”

true or not, this story beautifully illustrates that we as humans cannot fully comprehend the truth of the universe and existence. A limited, physical mind like the human brain (the hole) cannot possible fit the vastness of truth and existence (the sea) in it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top