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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Wouldn’t you admit that some of those 19 are actually speaking about tongues, where it was another language between men?
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KingJohn
Guest
Some, yes. And some show Jesus encouraging us to speak and prophesy in his name in tounges. There’s alot of things in the Bible on tounges, it is simply our belief that tounges is a language we have the ability to speak to God with. That is the best I can explain it.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Do you see a connection between the tower of Babel and the use of tongues, as spoken by the Apostles at Pentecost?
J
Jon_S_1
Guest
My point is of the thousands of verses, you base this on 20??
Also, shouldn’t there be writings of this in the first couple centuries afterPaul wrote these instructions?
Why is this only a 19th century phenomenon? Did God not use baptism of the Holy Spirit for 17 centuries?
Justin Martyr describes Sunday services well around the year 120AD. if this was going on he would have mentioned it as he tried to convince the Romans not to kill him.
"No one may share the Eucharist with us unless he believes that what we teach is true, unless he is washed in the regenerating waters of baptism for the remission of his sins, and unless he lives in accordance with the principles given us by Christ.
We do not consume the eucharistic bread and wine as if it were ordinary food and drink, for we have been taught that as Jesus Christ our Savior became a man of flesh and blood by the power of the Word of God, so also the food that our flesh and blood assimilates for its nourishment becomes the flesh and blood of the incarnate Jesus by the power of his own words contained in the prayer of thanksgiving.
The apostles, in their recollections, which are called gospels, handed down to us what Jesus commanded them to do. They tell us that he took bread, gave thanks and said: Do this in memory of me. This is my body. In the same way he took the cup, he gave thanks and said: This is my blood. The Lord gave this command to them alone. Ever since then we have constantly reminded one another of these things. The rich among us help the poor and we are always united. For all that we receive we praise the Creator of the universe through his Son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit.
On Sunday we have a common assembly of all our members, whether they live in the city or the outlying districts. The recollections of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as there is time. When the reader has finished, the president of the assembly speaks to us; he urges everyone to imitate the examples of virtue we have heard in the readings. Then we all stand up together and pray.
On the conclusion of our prayer, bread and wine and water are brought forward. The president offers prayers and gives thanks to the best of his ability, and the people give assent by saying, “Amen”. The eucharist is distributed, everyone present communicates, and the deacons take it to those who are absent.
The wealthy, if they wish, may make a contribution, and they themselves decide the amount. The collection is placed in the custody of the president, who uses it to help the orphans and widows and all who for any reason are in distress, whether because they are sick, in prison, or away from home. In a word, he takes care of all who are in need.
We hold our common assembly on Sunday because it is the first day of the week, the day on which God put darkness and chaos to flight and created the world, and because on that same day our savior Jesus Christ rose from the dead. For he was crucified on Friday and on Sunday he appeared to his apostles and disciples and taught them the things that we have passed on for your consideration."
-the First Apology of St Justin Martyr,
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I actually only know of one verse where the Lord spoke about men speaking with new tongues, and that is applicable to the communication, through tongues, as spoken by the Apostles, where everyone heard them speak in their native tongue.
I know there are differences among Pentecostals, one being that some believe speaking in tongues is required for salvation. Do you also believe this?
S
Skye_Ariel
Guest
Interesting thread, thanks for starting it. 
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KingJohn
Guest
I’ve given you multiple scriptures, even a scripture where Jesus says speak in tounges. Read the thread.
K
KingJohn
Guest
Soo…What’s your question, sir…?My point is of the thousands of verses, you base this on 20??
Also, shouldn’t there be writings of this in the first couple centuries afterPaul wrote these instructions?
Why is this only a 19th century phenomenon? Did God not use baptism of the Holy Spirit for 17 centuries?
Justin Martyr describes Sunday services well around the year 120AD. if this was going on he would have mentioned it as he tried to convince the Romans not to kill him.
"No one may share the Eucharist with us unless he believes that what we teach is true, unless he is washed in the regenerating waters of baptism for the remission of his sins, and unless he lives in accordance with the principles given us by Christ.
We do not consume the eucharistic bread and wine as if it were ordinary food and drink, for we have been taught that as Jesus Christ our Savior became a man of flesh and blood by the power of the Word of God, so also the food that our flesh and blood assimilates for its nourishment becomes the flesh and blood of the incarnate Jesus by the power of his own words contained in the prayer of thanksgiving.
The apostles, in their recollections, which are called gospels, handed down to us what Jesus commanded them to do. They tell us that he took bread, gave thanks and said: Do this in memory of me. This is my body. In the same way he took the cup, he gave thanks and said: This is my blood. The Lord gave this command to them alone. Ever since then we have constantly reminded one another of these things. The rich among us help the poor and we are always united. For all that we receive we praise the Creator of the universe through his Son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit.
On Sunday we have a common assembly of all our members, whether they live in the city or the outlying districts. The recollections of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as there is time. When the reader has finished, the president of the assembly speaks to us; he urges everyone to imitate the examples of virtue we have heard in the readings. Then we all stand up together and pray.
On the conclusion of our prayer, bread and wine and water are brought forward. The president offers prayers and gives thanks to the best of his ability, and the people give assent by saying, “Amen”. The eucharist is distributed, everyone present communicates, and the deacons take it to those who are absent.
The wealthy, if they wish, may make a contribution, and they themselves decide the amount. The collection is placed in the custody of the president, who uses it to help the orphans and widows and all who for any reason are in distress, whether because they are sick, in prison, or away from home. In a word, he takes care of all who are in need.
We hold our common assembly on Sunday because it is the first day of the week, the day on which God put darkness and chaos to flight and created the world, and because on that same day our savior Jesus Christ rose from the dead. For he was crucified on Friday and on Sunday he appeared to his apostles and disciples and taught them the things that we have passed on for your consideration."
-the First Apology of St Justin Martyr,
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LegoGE1947
Guest
Yes. Flopping on the ground. Speaking in tongues and seeing visions from the Book of Revelation. Historically, Goes back to the early part of the 20th century. A mission in LA called Azusa St Mission. Check it out on Google or Bing. Biblically most of the adherents would send you to 1 Corinthians chapters 12, 13 and 14. And Acts chapter 2.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I read the thread, and only see the single verse I provided where Christ specifically referenced tongues. Can you please show me the ones I’m overlooking?
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the_phoenix
Guest
As a Catholic, I used to attend Sister Monica’s Healing Service at a convent chapel on Wednesday nights, and would go up to receive a blessing which would result in my falling backwards and resting in the Spirit. (which some people call being “slain” in the Spirit)
Sister Monica was a nun gifted with healing. She was fully in agreement with the Catholic Church and the Pope … and was probably what one would call a “Charismatic Catholic.” As part of the service, Mass was always celebrated by a visiting priest, and Sister Monica would thank the priest publicly, pray for him and invite us to pray as well for the priest, and remind us that “The greatest Healer is Jesus Christ in the Eucharist and the greatest healing is found in the Sacrament of Confession.” … So that people would know to give Jesus the credit and not herself.
Sister would hold a crucifix up and pray over you, sometimes in tongues, then maybe touch you lightly with the crucifix. Sometimes she did not have to touch anyone at all, people would simply fall back with the help of two catchers behind them to avoid injury. She would warn people who didn’t want to fall backwards to hold up their right hand when she approached so that she would know not touch them with the crucifix, but reminded everyone that the power of the Holy Spirit was such that they might fall back anyways and so be prepared.
I haven’t been to the healing service in years, which is my loss, because I would recommend it to anyone. Beyond the Mass, we always said the Rosary and the Divine Mercy Chaplet.
Yes, the Holy Spirit is powerful in today’s world!
Come Holy Spirit,
enkindle in us the fire of thy love!
~~ the phoenix
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KingJohn
Guest
I don’t want to continually quote it only for it to be disregarded and ignored.
M
MJCamp
Guest
Why do Pentecostal’s reject the Eucharist and how do they interpret the Eucharistic teachings in John 6? Thx
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LegoGE1947
Guest
Back when I was a pentecostal I didn’t even know John HAD a chapter 6. You familiar with the expression “sweeping something under the rug?”
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Brother, please don’t take my questions as an attempt to argue. I am not trying to be disrespectful at all. I am a convert from 1985, and grew up in Pentecostal, and Baptist Churches. I married my wife in 1975, in a Pentecostal Church. That’s why I know the differences, referencing some believe tongues is a required sign of salvation.
You opened the door to questions. I provided the single verse where Christ spoke about tongues. I went back through the thread and reread everything. You mention several references Christ made about tongues. I have searched the New Testament, and still only see the one time Christ spoke about tongues.So, once again, please, provide the multiple times Jesus spoke about tongues, as you have said a few times now.
I believe we are brothers in Christ, even though you are Pentecostal. If you don’t want to discuss certain things, you shouldn’t start a thread such as this.
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KingJohn
Guest
I’l answer this to the best of my ability.
There may be some differing opinions on this but I believe most Evangelical Pentecostals would say that Communion is an act of remembering the sacrifice Jesus made, as he commanded us to do. The bread and the cup are symbolic references to Jesus’ body and blood, and not his literal body and blood.
I hope that answers your question.
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KingJohn
Guest
1 Corinthians 14:1-40
The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy
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Jon_S_1
Guest
Also, shouldn’t there be writings of this in the first couple centuries afterPaul wrote these instructions?
Why is this only a 19th century phenomenon? Did God not use baptism of the Holy Spirit for 17 centuries?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
In the letter of correction to the Corinthians, St. Paul gave specific instructions to let a man prove himself, and then let him eat and drink. What is Paul asking be proved?
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KingJohn
Guest
It depends on how you view it.
I’ve studied Catholicism and at once was considering it. If you follow Catholic tridition, converts and people who became Catholics had to be baptized as a process of entering the Church, and still must be baptized.
Even outside of the Catholic Church, baptisim would be used practiced. So, yes, God did use Baptism for the past 17 centuries.
Why in the world would you think Pentecostals believe it’s a 19th century thing…?
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