Ask a protestant a question thread.

[Syele]

I have another one. Are there any aspects to the Catholic (or Orthodox) faith that you would love to have incorporated into your denomination, like Lent or Advent? Are there any things that you yourself have added on your own?

I celebrate Lent and advent… Assembly of God does not, but I go visit at the Episcopal church for special related services . The Episcopal Priests like to tease me for this since they know I’m an assembly of God member atm.

I haven’t added anything on my own.

I do miss having wine and bread at communion, instead of grape juice and wafers. But naturally, I cannot do that on my own.

 

[Syele]

How can this be?

What Moral teachings are you referring to? I know of a great many teachings that are different regarding authority, prayer, and behavior in church etc but on MORAL teachings I have found little differences.

 

[nsper7]

Agreed. Well said.

We were commanded to confess our sins to one another. That is missing in most Protestant churches.

I’d have to disagree on that. Virtually every Christian group I was involved for any length of time would discuss the importance of confessing sins to each other, although not for forgiveness (except in the case where your sin did ill to someone else), but for accountability and healing.

In the Episcopal Church, we have Reconciliation of a Penitent (Sacramental Confession with an ordained priest), although we do not believe it is the priest that forgives sins, although they do pray a prayer of absolution and anoint with oild during the rite.

 

[moondweller]

While some Arminians may believe in OSAS I think it’s usually associated with Calvinists, not Arminians.

OSAS, better: “eternal security,” is believed by those who fully comprehend and believe the Scriptures which reveal the power of God’s infinite GRACE, through the cross, to save, forever, those who believe in the Person and work of His beloved Son; and the power of God to forever keep the believer according to that same GRACE.

Eternal security is “associated” not with the “isms” of men, but with the Scriptures that reveal the doctrines of the cross of Christ. Divine teachings which predate Arminius and Calvin or, for that matter, any Pope, Prelate or Pastor.

 

[East_Anglican]

you are right in that paul never said the thing about fallen angels making room. but paul was pretty clear in his predestination thinking. he even uses the word (it’s where we get it from). augustine took the beginnings of his idea straight from the writings of paul. calvin took his ideas straight from paul and augustine. and then added his own ideas to them as well, just like augustine did.

i would not go so far as to call augustinian (some of it) theology “nuts”. there are places i don’t necessarily agree, but i think he was one of the greatest Christian minds we have ever had.

The predestination Paul spoke of was through Gods foreknowledge not a pre-election process. God was reconciling the world to him self through The Cross not a select bunch.

Maybe this belongs in its oown thread.

 

[East_Anglican]

Since Martin L decided to judge and condenmened the CC and claimed his teachings are the ones to be believed.

As protestants, how do you guys deal with the passage in the Bible which Jesus pray for the Apostles that they may be one as God and Jesus is one, without divisions, same faith same believe, same teachings?

Because some of the things we like to argue about are not things that are important. We have to look at what we are all saying and doing through Christ instead of our pet doctrinal beliefs.

I believe that the Father hears, and honors all of the prayers of the Son; therefore, it is right to conclude that the true church is not divided, but is one body, one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father (Eph 4:4-5).

This is true.

Also, there is no divide between The Church militant and The Church triumphant. Try to explain this to some Christians and they won’t see it. The same with the Church millitant on Earth. It is united but many can not see it.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

it’s a good question. most protestants would say they do submit to the authority that gave us the bible. the Holy Spirit which guided the church council.

I find it interesting that a protestant agrees that the Holy Spirit Guides his Catholic Church, and I will add still does today.

the question (from an orthodox point of view) could be turned around and ask why the roman catholic church doesn’t submit itself to the authority that put the bible together.

This is your opinion, to which you can give, But history and present facts disagree with your only opinion.

church council made up of all the patriarchs having and equal authority (with the bishop of rome as primary but not supreme)? why did the roman catholic church break from that model and the pope claim a supreme authority rather than the first among equals that the orthodox claim was the original authority?

**Its not what the Church of Rome decided later to make herself supreme authority, It is the teachings of Jesus himself that you disagree with. Rome obeys Jesus that upon Peter he will build his Church, Jesus personally gave Peter the keys (authority) to his kingdom to bind and loose. **

**I disagree with you, The Bishop of Rome is an equal among all the Catholic bishops. But when it comes to the final say in council, upon hearing all bishops, Peter (present Pope) gives the final word, as Jesus commanded. I believe if protestants can grasp this teaching of Jesus, and not let pride in, we can have a unity of Christianity in authority.

In short, The Roman Catholic Church will not back down from the teachings of Jesus Christ and his commandments. Remember it is not the bishop of Rome you disagree with, it is Jesus teachings about authority. Why do you dispute Jesus teachings? **

this is not a thread of debate but question and answer.

Agreed, I hope I offered some insight to your question?

also, i am not arminian and have answered a number of questions on here so i think some of you are giving syele a hard time. there have actually been a couple of different protestant traditions represented in this thread.

Believe it or not, I am learning of a new protestant chapter in all of protestantism from the Arminian, What’s the count now, 21,0000, or 31,000 different protestant Christian belief systems. I am sure the bible only teaches one, Lord, one faith, one baptism. If you could in a sentence justify why all the different protestant belief systems, I would compaign for you to run for president.

 

[deb1]

OSAS, better: “eternal security,” is believed by those who fully comprehend and believe the Scriptures which reveal the power of God’s infinite GRACE, through the cross, to save, forever, those who believe in the Person and work of His beloved Son; and the power of God to forever keep the believer according to that same GRACE.

Eternal security is “associated” not with the “isms” of men, but with the Scriptures that reveal the doctrines of the cross of Christ. Divine teachings which predate Arminius and Calvin or, for that matter, any Pope, Prelate or Pastor.

Many Protestants don’t believe in OSAS. I don’t think that they believe or understand the bible any less then those who believe in OSAS.

 

[deb1]

I’d have to disagree on that. Virtually every Christian group I was involved for any length of time would discuss the importance of confessing sins to each other, although not for forgiveness (except in the case where your sin did ill to someone else), but for accountability and healing.

In the Episcopal Church, we have Reconciliation of a Penitent (Sacramental Confession with an ordained priest), although we do not believe it is the priest that forgives sins, although they do pray a prayer of absolution and anoint with oild during the rite.

I have never been to a Protestant church that preached that we should confess sins to one another. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t taught in many churches, simply that it wasn’t taught in the ones I attended.

 

[ralphinal]

I have a stack of reading material that includes St. John of the Cross. I asked a Methodist minister for some suggestions and these are the readings he suggested (and I have them all but I’ve not started reading yet):

The Practice of the Presence of God - Brother Lawrence
Praying the Psalms - Thomas Merton
The Imitation of Christ - Thomas a Kempis
Dark Night of the Soul - St. John of the Cross
The Way of Perfection - Theresa of Avila
Revelations of Divine Love - Julian of Norwich

What would you suggest I read first?

I am still so new to this - but I believe it will help. I was not taught to pray in this way, but as I have grown older, I knew I wanted to grow closer to God - to know him - and I believe prayer is definitely the way to do this.

As for my background - I was raised Southern Baptist (and no, I never realized the slavery connection), but left the church when I was a teenager. I have attended non-denominational churches, Methodist, and attended a conservative Anglican service last Sunday.

I tend to do things the hard way, so I started with John of the Cross. I would recommend Merton or Avila first, then as they tend ot be easier to read (not always easier to digest). I love contemplative prayer. I agree that it is the way to know God.

 

[ralphinal]

I have been to “taize” services at the Episcopal cathedral…moving experience…I love the chanting.

In my private devotions I have incorporated a “chokti” from Orthodox practice…I have even taken it with me to Meeting…one First Day I looked up across the room and another Friend had a “mala” he was using…our eyes met and we smiled at one another.

Sometimes when I’m reading scripture I’ll set out an icon an acquaintence gave me and light a votive. I’ll put on some Gregorian chants and settle down for study…at times doing this “speaks to my condition”. I do keep note as to which “season” we are in, I have used the Book of Common Prayer Psalter at times.

I really wouldn’t want to see any “outward forms” incorporated into the meeting for worship, as I find the Gatherd Meeting to hold a beauty and power all it’s own.

I understand about not wanting them incorporated into the meeting. I am glad that you see value in these things as aids to contemplation.

I feel bad for those who do not know of these aids in knowing God. It is sad to me that so many Christians could grow in faith if they knew more about prayer, meditation, Church Fathers, Mystics, etc. This applies to Catholics as well.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

From “Quaker Beliefs” It is said better than I could say it anyway.

"Friends consider that true religion cannot be learned from books or set prayers, words or rituals, which George Fox called ‘empty forms’.

So where do you get your religious instruction? if not from the historical Jesus, and his living word, and his commandments to do this in memory of me. Or do friends have another God that I am not aware of?

When Quakerism began in England, the Bible had only just come into common circulation in English translation and was widely read and quoted.

When did Quakerism start? because the cannonized bible was already in circulation since the late 2nd to 3rd century. Was Christianity already speaking English or latin when the Quakers started theyre movement from already existing Christianity?

Most Protestant groups attributed a great finality and infallibility to it. The common desire for an external authoritative standard was very strong. In religious controversies, each group tried to find support somewhere in the wording of scripture.

Ok, that makes sense, because Protestantism was just reforming itself from the different interpretations of Christianity, and are still reforming, Sad to say, we Catholics have not changed our Teachings since the time of the apostles, when they entered into the new covenant practices of Jesus Christ.

At times, Friends fell into the same habit. But they also believed in the contemporary revelation of God’s will, parallel to what was described in the Bible. George Fox once said: "You will say Christ saith this, and the apostles say this, but what canst thou say?

I say, What Jesus say, and what the apostles teach, to my generation, I hand on what was taught to me from the body of Christ his Church. The holy spirit does not change teachings, The holy spirit teachings the Church to teach the same gospel message to all nations, until the end of the age. So the gospel message is not new revelation, it is new to the next generations who have not heard it yet.

Art thou a child of Light and hast thou walked in the Light, and what thou speakest is it inwardly from the God?"

Yes, this is a promise from Jesus, He will give us a comforter (Holy spirit) and he will reveal his teachings to us, to all generations to come, without error. John 16:13

Friends refuse to make the Bible the final test of right conduct and true doctrine.

Wow I like you, you tell it like it is, The bible is not your final authority, many protestants will disagree with you. The Catholic Church agrees with you on that statement.

Divine revelation is not confined to the past. The same Holy Spirit which has inspired the scriptures in the past can inspire living believers centuries later. Indeed, for the right understanding of the past, the present insight from the same Spirit is essential. Friends believe that, by the Inner Light, God provides everyone with access to spiritual truth for today."

I find it hard to disagree with the above statement, but which Friend determines if his/her revelation is from God? Do friends believe in the past revelations of God to man and know of them?
And are the present revelations of God to Friends differ from past Gods revelations? Or does God change?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I believe all Protestant churches are traced through the Catholic Church as well.

If all protestants can start with this agreement, I believe we can be headed back to one Lord, one faith one baptism again.

I do not accept blanket infallibility, other than the inspired word of God. By that I mean that just because someone or some group is correct about one thing, does not follow that they are correct about everything. But we are diverging from questions on protestant beliefs to a Catholic vs. Protestant debate. I think debating in this thread would make it too convoluted to follow all of them,

**I agree with you about debating on this thread too many protestant different belief systems, would make it hard to decipher who’s who among you all.

Your statement about you dont accept blanket infallability? I dont either, One question? Can I belive as you do, and make statements about Christianity, to believe as I want to and chose not to belive when I dont want to about Christian sound doctrine?**

You are thinking of Armenians (people of a particular country) as opposed to Arminians who were people agreeing with Jacobus Arminius.

**thank you so much for clearing that up for me, I now I understand your posts better. Thanks a million **

 

[wisdomseeker]

Who is the authority in your religion who is to enterpret the Bible?
and when people differs in enterpretation who decides which is the correct one?

 

[Publisher]

I understand about not wanting them incorporated into the meeting. I am glad that you see value in these things as aids to contemplation.

I feel bad for those who do not know of these aids in knowing God. It is sad to me that so many Christians could grow in faith if they knew more about prayer, meditation, Church Fathers, Mystics, etc. This applies to Catholics as well.

I do feel at times we “overlook” the “gems” that our Befores have used in their walks with God. To me seeking to understand how others walk this Road gives me insight into the depth of experiencing the Light Within.

Part of my own disipline is seeking to understand the value found in some of the “outward forms”, in this way I can better understand other’s experiences and perhaps enhance my own.

For me though, the deepest and most profound moments have been sitting in my living room in “worship after the manner of Friends”. I have an old wooden office chair in the corner. I use it mostly for my times of private devotion. I sit with my feet on the floor, my hands upon my knees and enter into the Living Silence and experience the Real Presence in my midst…even in my darkest times He is there, even if only to be with me in my own grief. I have become very much “at home” in Silence.

 

[ralphinal]

I do feel at times we “overlook” the “gems” that our Befores have used in their walks with God. To me seeking to understand how others walk this Road gives me insight into the depth of experiencing the Light Within.

I think it was Newton that said that if it was true that he had seen farther than others, it was because he stood on the backs of Giants. Why must so many people try to reinvent the wheel?

Part of my own disipline is seeking to understand the value found in some of the “outward forms”, in this way I can better understand other’s experiences and perhaps enhance my own.

For me though, the deepest and most profound moments have been sitting in my living room in “worship after the manner of Friends”. I have an old wooden office chair in the corner. I use it mostly for my times of private devotion. I sit with my feet on the floor, my hands upon my knees and enter into the Living Silence and experience the Real Presence in my midst…even in my darkest times He is there, even if only to be with me in my own grief. I have become very much “at home” in Silence.

That is beautiful. I have to try to be silent, as I enjoy my own voice too much.

 

[moondweller]

Many Protestants don’t believe in OSAS. I don’t think that they believe or understand the bible any less then those who believe in OSAS.

Sure they do. Because the Bible doesn’t teach a partial atonement.

There are those who fully understand, based on the written Word of God, that God saves the believer by GRACE and is kept by that same GRACE.

The rest teach that although one might be saved by grace (but even their view on this is distorted) he is kept by Law or meritorious works of righteousness.

 

[mark_a]

Thanks.

What Moral teachings are you referring to? I know of a great many teachings that are different regarding authority, prayer, and behavior in church etc.

Not these.

but on MORAL teachings I have found little differences

How about the moral teachings about abortion? Some churches teach that it is ok, especially if a woman finds herself under difficult circumstances.

Pro-choice Christians consider themselves every bit as Christian as pro-lifers. Some even go so far as to say that abortion can be merciful.

 

[Syele]

Believe it or not, I am learning of a new protestant chapter in all of protestantism from the Arminian, What’s the count now, 21,0000, or 31,000 different protestant Christian belief systems. I am sure the bible only teaches one, Lord, one faith, one baptism. If you could in a sentence justify why all the different protestant belief systems, I would compaign for you to run for president.

umm I’ll start a new thread for this one.

 

[Syele]

Thanks.

Not these.

How about the moral teachings about abortion? Some churches teach that it is ok, especially if a woman finds herself under difficult circumstances.

Pro-choice Christians consider themselves every bit as Christian as pro-lifers. Some even go so far as to say that abortion can be merciful.

I have never attended a church that claims abortion is ok. I guess there are some somewhere. I cannot speak for them.