Ask about Islam round 3!

[sedonaman]

sedonaman, I will correct only a small part of your Quranic translation. Please note that the word non-believers (shown above in RED) is not the correct description of the infidels. If you have any approach to Arabic Quran then please note that the word Kafir is not a simple disbeliever. You are a non-believer in Muhammad. If you are peaceful then you are not a Kafir.

Any one and every one who has not uttered the Kalima is not a Kafir. Only those to whom the message of Islam is presented peacefully and given enough time to understand it, if they (or He) tries to not believe and tries to fight the Muslims and Islam and wages war against Islam and does not let others believe, he is a Kafir, described in the verses in a lose manner as a disbeliever.
He is not a simple disbeliever but a fanatic hostile disbeliever in Islam.

he deserves to be killed because he is already on war path against Islam. What problem do you have against the enemies. We do not believe in your false theory of “Love thy enemy”. We can be kind to the enemy depending on the situation if kindness will help him to improve his ways.

If our kindness will spoil him more then we will not be kind with him. This our teaching is different to the teaching of the church “Love thy enemy”… Nobody can always do that and it is not fair to love all the enemies all the time.

All this is minor to my point, but let’s pull that thread.
You Muslims claim that:
a. The Bible got “corrupted by man”;
b. Mohammed was given the “true” belief to get us back on the original path, so to speak;
c. Jesus was a great prophet of Allah;
d. Jesus taught Islam all his life, even as an infant.
Therefore Jesus’ message [whatever it was], had to have been the same as Mohammad’s, which was,

"… I will instill terror into the hearts of the kafirs, [unbelievers, enemies of Islam, or whatever term you want]: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Which got corrupted to:
“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

And I repeat that all this is more evidence that what Wood said is true, “Because the Muslim view is at odds with any traditional understanding of God’s nature (including the Islamic understanding), Islam is an incoherent religious system, which should be rejected by all rational people.”

And in view of your comment, “he [kafir, unbeliever, enemy of Islam, or whatever term you want] deserves to be killed because he is already on war path against Islam,” I think Wood is overly generous when he refers to Islam as a “religious” system.

 

[sedonaman]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem
It’s does’nt make sense because Allah has not made it easy for you to understand. He has placed a seal over you.
I don’t understand how something so simple doesn’t make sense but you completely understand one man being 3 different people.

God is not a man.

 

[sedonaman]

Don’t you just love it? Mohammed didn’t bring anything new to the table of the history of the world. His observation has plainly been, “You can get more with a sword and a smile than you can with just a smile.”

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

… Prophet 2… encouraged murder

Last Prophet ( peace be upon him) forgave the killers of his own daughter & uncle when he had power to torture & kill enemies. Remember , he had 10 thousands armed soldiers with him when he conquered Macca.

**
Not a single kid was murdered in the name of self defense ; not any woman was tortured.** How many times do I have to write these here ?

To Christians , Jesus (pbuh) is God . So , I think , it’s better if u stop comparing him with the Last Prophet . To us , both were humble servants & blessed messengers of God.

We listen to both of them - Worship none but God.

Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Yaqoob (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat (the twelve sons of Yaqoob (Jacob)), and that which has been given to Moosa (Moses) and Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord.

We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)."

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #136)

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

It was not a condition …just a suggestion

I wonder , why Christians compare God with a mortal man ? God is our Creator , we are His creations. How God can be compared to His own creation ? Christians are trying to prove that Jesus (pbuh) is superior than Muhammed (pbuh) …very funny , is not it ? Why u need to prove that God is superior than a mortal human being ?

Muslims have made the poorest and least reasoned answers.

I hope , you don’t believe that Catholics performances are wonderful here .

 

[Jay53]

Muslim Woman;4846025]**
Last Prophet ( peace be upon him) forgave the killers of his own daughter & uncle when he had power to torture & kill enemies. Remember , he had 10 thousands armed soldiers with him when he conquered Macca.

**
Not a single kid was murdered in the name of self defense ; not any woman was tortured.**** How many times do I have to write these here ?

To Christians , Jesus (pbuh) is God . So , I think , it’s better if u stop comparing him with the Last Prophet . To us , both were humble servants & blessed messengers of God.

We listen to both of them - Worship none but God.

You completely missed the point! I wanted you/everyone to be objective in looking at the lives/message of the “anonymous” prophets. Yes, I realize that everyone knows #1 is Jesus and #2 is Muhammad, but if you imagine for a moment that you didn’t know that - which one most embodies the message of God and how He wants us to live?

What you did is ignore the totality and pick one point to expound on. (BTW, you are disingenuous with your claim that no child was murdered and no woman tortured. Technically you are probably correct, however Asma bint Marwan* was* murdered at Muhammad’s behest.) But, if it will make you feel better, take out the “encouraged murder” and then make the comparison. I did not mention the Divinity of Jesus nor did I make an unfair assessment of Muhammad (I did not call him a pedophile or adulterer etc.). I thought I was very fair and objective in presenting facets of their lives. If there is any description that is untrue, please let me know.

I’m just trying to understand how and why Muslims believe God’s “last” prophet would not have the more exemplary qualifications as exhibited by Jesus and the peacful message He gave vs. the life of Muhammad which objectively is not as chaste nor is his message completely peaceful.

And, as far as the messages, Jesus’ message was not only “Worship only God”. If that were true there would be no difference between Christians and Muslims as we both worship ONE God. Jesus’ message had absolutely nothing in it to kill anyone or subjugate anyone, etc.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

why Muslims believe God’s “last” prophet would not have the more exemplary qualifications as exhibited by Jesus .

There is no competition between Prophets (peace be upon them). All came to teach people about oneness of God. Adam (pbuh) started and Muhammed(pbuh) fulfilled it.

Jesus (pbuh) was unmarried. It does not mean it’s a sin to get married . If all followed this example of Jesus (pbuh) , we were not here for discussion. Muhammed (pbuh) was a family man ; he taught people how to pray , how to help wives in domestic works , also how to dedicate life in the path of God.

He did not take revenge for personal sufferings. If he wanted , he could kill each & every non-Muslims in Macca . Remember , his armed followers were with him , they did not fled away. Only a dozen war criminals got death penatly.

Message of all Prophets (pbut) is same- Worship none but God , God has no partner . Not a single Prophet ever taught that God has mother , begotten son etc. It does not matter how sinless a Prophet was , we must not worship him .

related info:

Erin - United States

Do Earlier Scriptures Complete the Quran?

…Before the disappearance of Jesus from earth, he told his followers that a “Spirit of Truth” or “Comforter” will come after him to complete the Religion of God (John 16:7,8 & 16:12-14).

Muslims believe that “the Comforter” and “the Spirit of Truth” prophesied by Jesus was the same as “the Prophet like Moses” foretold by Moses in Deuteronomy (Deuteronomy 18:17-19).

An objective study will show how the qualities mentioned in the prophecies of both Moses and Jesus (referred to above) are evident in Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), the final prophet of God through whom God completed His guidance for man.

Islam as taught by Prophet Muhammad is thus seen by Muslims as the culmination and completion of the same religion taught by Moses and Jesus, indeed by all the prophets (peace be on them all) sent by Allah Almighty.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1232171576509

 

[inJESUS]

**I

**
Not a single kid was murdered in the name of self defense ; not any woman was tortured.****

 

[planten]

God is not a man.

**Perhaps Jesus is also not a man. The church has so many complexities that it impossible to keep count of the supposed beliefs (teachings) of the church.

The other day somebody tried to tell us that “Jesus is God. God is not Jesus.” What a funny idea. It is not from the bible at all. So it has no value.

jesus called himself son of God. he called God as the father. And he said that God was every ones father. The christians have taken it a literl truth. It was only a parable.

He said “father and I are One.” They took that also as the literal truth. far from it. There are so many other such things that the christians want us to believe. But they themselves are not ready to believe anything told by the Muslims.

They (christians) use teh angels for their own sake. But when it is said that Muhammad was visite dby an archangel (Gabriel), they say “NO.” That was not an angel. that was the devil.

We see that christians do not have any faith in God because they have different scales of Justice. They try to use the word “Love” instead of “Justice”.

Now here, sedonaman has said “God is not a man.”
May I say “Man is not God?”**

 

[inJESUS]

**I

**
Not a single kid was murdered in the name of self defense ; not any woman was tortured.****

 

[inJESUS]

Islamonline convinces people by saying the comforter is Muhammad. What a theological and intellectual bankruptcy from such a site so why blame other Muslims? if such answers convince them then no wonder they will believe anything.

 

[planten]

Don’t you just love it? Mohammed didn’t bring anything new to the table of the history of the world. His observation has plainly been, “You can get more with a sword and a smile than you can with just a smile.”

**Please note that Muhammad got the Quran. You people have made up a bible. In the Quran there is no such word as “Sword.” Check up the whole Quran. There is no sword (Saif) in Quran.

But you have the order in bible from Jesus to buy swords even at the cost of selling your clothes. What was the purpose of buying swords?**

 

[inJESUS]

God is our Creator , we are His creations. How God can be compared to His own creation ?

 

[planten]

Islamonline convinces people by saying the comforter is Muhammad. What a theological and intellectual bankruptcy from such a site so why blame other Muslims? if such answers convince them then no wonder they will believe anything.

**inJesus, as you people are anxious to prove the truth of Jesus from the bibleOT, we Muslims also have the right to present the words of the BibleOT/NT to prove the news of the coming of the prophet Muhammad. What harm is there.?

Jesus was going away. he was in a hurry. He could not tell everything to his people. (See John ch.16) He admitted that he had many more things to say… He told his people about the coming of another Comforter.
That means Jesus was a Comforter. Another manlike comforter would come after him. He will lead all people into all truth. ( Never before in the history of the world any ghost came to guide the people)

Jesus infact left a message for his followers to listen to the One who was to come after him. But the christians (and the church) changed the meaning of the good news. Injeel means good news. That was the good news. But they denied it and disobeyed. So we have to let them go on their way.**

 

[Jay53]

**There is no competition between Prophets (peace be upon them). All came to teach people about oneness of God. Adam (pbuh) started and Muhammed(pbuh) fulfilled it.

Jesus (pbuh) was unmarried. It does not mean it’s a sin to get married . If all followed this example of Jesus (pbuh) , we were not here for discussion. Muhammed (pbuh) was a family man ; he taught people how to pray , how to help wives in domestic works , also how to dedicate life in the path of God.

He did not take revenge for personal sufferings. If he wanted , he could kill each & every non-Muslims in Macca . Remember , his armed followers were with him , they did not fled away. Only a dozen war criminals got death penatly.

Message of all Prophets (pbut) is same- Worship none but God , God has no partner . Not a single Prophet ever taught that God has mother , begotten son etc. It does not matter how sinless a Prophet was , we must not worship him .
**

I give up. Either you are deliberately obtuse, just not capable of understanding or so mired in your lies/misperceptions that you cannot even try to understand another’s point of view. :dts: Perhaps someone else here will understand my point.

I mentioned nothing about marriage and whether it’s a sin (it’s not) or about Muhammad taking revenge. A couple of acts of kindness in not killing someone does not excuse or make up for the people who DID die by his hand or his order.

And, once again, Christians worship GOD alone! How many times do we have to tell you THAT before you will understand? My guess is that you have to hold on to your “partner” belief about Christians because Muhammad was mistaken and put forth his erroneous ideas about the Trinity. To admit that Christians are correct and worship only ONE GOD would mean to admit Muhammad is wrong about this fact and you will never do that.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Ablution and health purity

Allah says; “O believers, when you stand up to pray, wash your faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads, and your feet up to the ankles. If you are defiled, purify yourselves…” (5:6)

Ablution is the weapon of the faithful: The Prophet (PBUH) said; “He who performs ablution, and perfects it, his sins would come out from his body, till they pass out from under his nails.”

… Modern science has proved that rinsing the mouth protects the mouth and throat from inflammation and the gums from suppuration (pyorrhea). It also protects and cleans teeth by removing food remnants.

· Washing and sniffing the nose strongly helps keep the nostril clean and free of inflammation and germs, thus reflecting positively on the health status of the whole body.

. Washing the face and the two hands up to the elbows is of a great benefit in removing dust and microbes as well as sweat from the surface of the skin. This also cleans the skin from the fatty substance secreted by skin glands, and which is usually a very suitable place for the proliferation and sustenance of germs.

Washing feet with massaging lead to a feeling of quietness and complacency that engulfs the Moslem after ablution.

to read the full article , pl.visit :

Reflections on the Medical Miracles of the Holy Quran

Dr. Sharif Kaf Al Ghazal

islamicmedicine.org/medmiraclesofquran/medmiracleseng.htm#abultion

 

[jakasaki]

Agreed - hygene has been practiced from all sorts of peoples of the lands and globe thousands of years before mohamd- the Chinese, Egyptians, the ancient Romans, Greeks, Jews - etc…

 

[sedonaman]

I wonder , why Christians compare God with a mortal man ? God is our Creator , we are His creations. How God can be compared to His own creation ?

Because man is created in the image and likeness of God NOT Allah]. God does not create junk; Allah creates junk, i.e., his enemies, because he hates them and says that Muslims are the best of peoples.

For this reason Islam denies the Golden Rule.

 

[sedonaman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Last Prophet ( peace be upon him) forgave the killers of his own daughter & uncle when he had power to torture & kill enemies. Remember , he had 10 thousands armed soldiers with him when he conquered Macca.

Now isn’t that just ducky? Isn’t that just sooooo kind and magnanimous of him? With “10,000 armed soldiers,” conquers defenseless people, and out of the kindness of his heart, he lets some of them live. Psst. Guess what. If Mohammed and his army had stayed in Medina where they belonged, no one would have been killed including his own daughter and uncle.

BTW, some of us are getting a little tired of your “Salaam/peace” patronization because it insults our intelligence. We know what “peace” means as far as Islam is concerned.

 

[sedonaman]

Like I said in post #551 of this thread, Mohammed discovered that he could get more with a smile and a sword than he could with just a smile.