Ask about Islam round 3!

[planten]

Charlotte2008;4971110:

The TRUTH HURTS Definitely! …
Well you Can’t teach old dogs new tricks, especially if this dogs are willing followers of an abusive narcissistic master.

By the way, sis ill view it. Information against a false religion is king

trdchubi, truth hurts. But your foul falsehood hurts more. So decent persons do not follow ( look at) the foul bitches…

 

[dzheremi]

Alright, friends…this is getting a little bizarre…can we maybe get back to the topic at hand? Here is a question I have about Islam: How popular/widely celebrated is Muhammad’s birthday? I was listening to a record of Palestinian folk music today and it had a song on it for honoring the prophet’s birthday (“mawlid”, I think it was called), which was very nice. But I have heard some Muslims claim that this is an inappropriate/un-Islamic practice, since they say Muslims should only celebrate Eid and Ramadan.

What do the Muslim posters here think about this? Do any of you come from a country/culture that celebrates the prophet’s birthday? Or is this something that only certain sects of Islam do? What justification is there for celebrating it or discouraging/banning the celebration?

 

[inJESUS]

I do not think there is an agreement on Muhammad’s b’day. Some say celebrating is is an innovation/bid’aa ( imitating the kuffar) and some say it is ok. Those who say it is an innovation reason that Muhammad did not teach it.In Lebanon there’s a day off for his b’day, with chants and songs as you mentioned Dzhermi.

 

[planten]

I do not think there is an agreement on Muhammad’s b’day. Some say celebrating is is an innovation/bid’aa ( imitating the kuffar) and some say it is ok. Those who say it is an innovation reason that Muhammad did not teach it.In Lebanon there’s a day off for his b’day, with chants and songs as you mentioned Dzhermi.

There is no need to celebrate the birthday in the way it is being done by muslims. Instead, there should be lectures on the good life (Seerat) of the Prophet Muhammad. Rather than only singing songs in praise of Muhammad, it is more important to proclaim information about the Seerat of the prophet ( forever in Pease with Allah).

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

What do the Muslim posters here think about this?

Personally I try to fast on the day , offer special prayers
(salat , supplication , Quran recitation ), give charity etc. These are not compulsory but I do these as a gratitude to God for sending the ’ Seal of the Prophets (pbut) to us .

related link: A Muslim Christmas?

Question: … Does Islam have the equivalent of Christmas (the Christian celebration of the birth of Jesus)?

Name of Counselor: Ahmad Saad-…The whole issue of celebrating the birthday of the Prophet (peace be upon him) the way you see it in Cairo, started during the time of the Fatimid dynasty, which ruled in Cairo from 969 to 1171 AD.

…During the time of the Companions of the Prophet, the time of the Umayyad dynasty, the Abbasid dynasty and even later on in other parts of the Muslim world, such celebrations did not exist. … there are many scholars who speak against the way this event is celebrated, simply because it includes so many practices that run against the very tradition and guidance of the Prophet

…we are told that he used to fast on Mondays and when he was asked about this, he mentioned that it is the day when he was born (he was born on a Monday) and as a way of showing thankfulness to Almighty Allah, he spends that day in fasting. By the same token, some Muslims used to show some kind of gratefulness to Allah by fasting on that day.

Because the Prophet’s birthday is not like Christmas at all, you can simply find Muslim scholars having very different approaches on how we celebrate that day. Some scholars say by reading his biography and learning about his life and turning that into actions. Others say by gathering to send peace and blessings on him. Some others say by introducing his example to others through books, poems, or literature. Some say by fasting and praying to Allah to bless his soul and reward him for what he has done for us. Others say by memorizing his words and communicating them to mankind.

Yet, none will say that it is a religious injunction or even a recommendation to eat the sweets that are made in Egypt and participate in these processions…all Muslims all over the world, with their different cultures and backgrounds, see the Prophet’s birth as one of the happiest events that happened to the world.

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1236508930250&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE

 

[sedonaman]

OK, guys. In case you missed it on another thread, here is a dispassionate examination of Islam all in one place, although quite long. Because most of us have read them before, you might be able to skip over the quotes and just read the analysis.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Adam & Eve’s Sin: Paradise Lost?

Shahul Hameed :…*{And [as for you], O Adam’, dwell you and your wife in this garden, and eat, both of you, whatever you may wish; but do not approach this one tree, lest you become evildoers.

Thereupon, Satan whispered unto the two with a view to making them conscious of their nakedness, of which [hitherto] they had been unaware; and he said: "Your Sustainer has but forbidden you this tree lest you two become .[as] angels, or lest you live forever.

And he swore unto them, “Verily, I am of those who wish you well indeed!” And thus he led them on with deluding thoughts.

But as soon as the two had tasted [the fruit] of the tree, they became conscious of their nakedness; and they began to cover themselves with pieced-together leaves from the garden.

And their Sustainer called unto them: “Did I not forbid that tree unto you and tell you, ‘Verily, Satan is your open foe’?”

The two replied: "O our Sustainer! We have sinned against ourselves — and unless You grant us forgiveness and bestow Your mercy upon us, we shall most certainly be lost.}* (Al-A`raf 7:19-23)

…Thereupon Adam received words [of guidance] from his Sustainer, and He accepted his repentance: for, verily, He alone is the-Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace.
(Al-Baqarah 2:37)

It is worthy of note here that the sin of Adam was forgiven by Allah. And so the concept of original sin — that is to say, the idea that the sin of Adam is inherited by all his children generation after generation — is ruled out.

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1195032880070&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE

 

[Charlotte2008]

OK, guys. In case you missed it on another thread, here is a dispassionate examination of Islam all in one place, although quite long. Because most of us have read them before, you might be able to skip over the quotes and just read the analysis.

I only had time to read a small part (will read the rest later) but there is still one burning question: Apart from mohammed’s own words what proof is there that he is a prophet of God? None. There were no witnesses whereas there were when Jesus was crucified and died on the Cross for our sins. They can write a million websites to try and prove it is true but until they can answer the first question and also prove that the Bible is corrupted it will always be a false religion.

The Holy Bible is the original word of God. It’s not a copy or imitation like Koran. It was not written by just one man. But the Holy Bible contains the revelations and oracles of many holy Prophets who lived from the beginning of the world. These scriptures are very closely connected with each other. It works like a follow up. It’s an account of God’s work from the beginning and also His plans for the future. The New Testament is a continuation of the Torah which is the Old Testament. All the prophets wrote about the coming of Jesus as the Messiah, Moses, Joshua, Samuel, David, Elijah, Solomon, Isaiah, Daniel, and the Apostles of Lord Jesus Christ are the authors of the Bible. The Bible is not a one man’s account like Quran. The Bible did not pop up overnight either. The Koran is only 1400 hundred years old. God was there even before that. God in the Bible is not just 1400 years old. He is from everlasting to everlasting. 'He is Eternal God. If anyone wants to know about this God, he or she needs to read and understand the Holy Bible. They need to examine what the Holy Prophets and Scriptures have been telling from the beginning of the world about this great and awesome God. Koran cannot establish anything without the help of the ancient Scriptures which were already there before Mohammad came and formed a religion.

muslims are told in the koran to read the Bible. In there they would see the true word of God but still deny it is true:- John14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”.

 

[Charlotte2008]

How many muslims would want to live under sharia law? Why if islam is the word of God would he have changed from a God of Love in the Bible to a God of hate and brutal violence? This is the case if as they say it is “Allah’s Law” hence comes from the koran.

news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Taliban-In-Pakistan-Stuart-Ramsay-Report-Shows-Taliban-Flogging-Men-In-Swat-Valley/Article/200903415246681?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15246681_Taliban_In_Pakistan%3A_Stuart_Ramsay_Report_Shows_Taliban_Flogging_Men_In_Swat_Valley

I really do not understand why any human being could do this to another in the name of God. I is barbaric.

 

[rikkk1958]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Adam & Eve’s Sin: Paradise Lost?

Shahul Hameed :…*{And [as for you], O Adam’, dwell you and your wife in this garden, and eat, both of you, whatever you may wish; but do not approach this one tree, lest you become evildoers.

Thereupon, Satan whispered unto the two with a view to making them conscious of their nakedness, of which [hitherto] they had been unaware; and he said: "Your Sustainer has but forbidden you this tree lest you two become .[as] angels, or lest you live forever.

And he swore unto them, “Verily, I am of those who wish you well indeed!” And thus he led them on with deluding thoughts.

But as soon as the two had tasted [the fruit] of the tree, they became conscious of their nakedness; and they began to cover themselves with pieced-together leaves from the garden.

And their Sustainer called unto them: “Did I not forbid that tree unto you and tell you, ‘Verily, Satan is your open foe’?”

The two replied: "O our Sustainer! We have sinned against ourselves — and unless You grant us forgiveness and bestow Your mercy upon us, we shall most certainly be lost.}* (Al-A`raf 7:19-23)

…Thereupon Adam received words [of guidance] from his Sustainer, and He accepted his repentance: for, verily, He alone is the-Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace.
(Al-Baqarah 2:37)

It is worthy of note here that the sin of Adam was forgiven by Allah. And so the concept of original sin — that is to say, the idea that the sin of Adam is inherited by all his children generation after generation — is ruled out.

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1195032880070&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE

It is a shame that Muslim Woman would post the story of the creation here like we don’t know it. This shows also that Mohammed wanted to be a copycat, and in doing so he made so many errors. He could have just told his followers to refer the Holy Bible. Muslim Woman, your ignorance of Judeo-Christianity Bible is evident and this is why you are still have a hard time accepting Mohammed or Islam as a fake religion.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

If God Wills By Neveen Shedid

“If God wills” or “God willing” are common phrases Muslims use regularly and quite frequently in their daily conversations.

If you ever happen to have a conversation with a Muslim you will always find him ending most of his sentences about anything that he will do in the future with the phrase “If God wills” (in sha’ Allah in Arabic), be it something he will do in the next coming minutes or after ten years.

…When the pagans asked Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to tell them about “the Sleepers of the Cave”, the story of “Zul-Qarnain” and the soul, he said tomorrow I will tell you the answers of your questions, without saying “If God wills”.

Prophet Muhammad ( pbuh) waited for a revelation from God with the answers for these questions for fifteen days. Then God revealed to him the following verses reminding him that no one should say tomorrow I will do so and so without saying If God wills,

[And do not say of anything: Surely I will do it tomorrow, Unless Allah pleases; and remember your Lord when you forget and say: Maybe my Lord will guide me to a nearer course to the right than this.] (Al-Kahf 18:23-24)

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1236509085658&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam%2FDIELayout

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

… He could have just told his followers to refer the Holy Bible.

Quran did not put blame on Eve (pbuh)

Eve’s Sin

Val - Dominican Republic

I am doing research on creation stories in different religions.
My question is: what is the Islamic creation story?

For example: the Christian bible, in the book of Genesis states the creation story …Is the Islamic creation story any different, and how?

Shabir Ally :…There is even a passage, which singles out Adam for blame: But Satan whispered evil to him: he said, ‘O Adam! shall I lead thee to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?’ Surah 20 Verse 120

But there is no passage, which singles out Eve!

…It is also worth noting that the Qur’an does not share the biblical mention of a serpent approaching, or of Eve seducing her husband, or of Eve receiving a sentence to pain in childbirth and subjugation to her husband. So, Islam never acknowledged the idea of “Eve’s sin”!

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015562&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE

 

[The_Fool]

It is a shame that Muslim Woman would post the story of the creation here like we don’t know it. This shows also that Mohammed wanted to be a copycat, and in doing so he made so many errors. He could have just told his followers to refer the Holy Bible. Muslim Woman, your ignorance of Judeo-Christianity Bible is evident and this is why you are still have a hard time accepting Mohammed or Islam as a fake religion.

It is not a shame to share; she is posting the story of creation as she understands it so as to clarify and waylay any questions or assumptions we may have… I think. Secondly, Mohammad lived in an area that had a lot of different religions and a lot of people who do not read for a variety of reasons(ie money), didn’t he? We, you and I, may understand his difference of understanding to be errors, but perhaps he did not. Perhaps that is how he was taught, just like some children are taught the Trinity is Father, Son, and Mary. How could he possibly tell people to refer to the Holy Bible when there were probably, as there are today, many different versions with different interpreters to go with them? How could he possibly tell them refer to the Holy Bible when, we will all agree, you can’t just pick it up cold and understand everything you come across? I may disagree with him, but I would like to think he genuinely believed what he taught, rather than tried to make himself big by pulling whatever out of the air.

I, myself, have probably made some horrible assumptions or provided misinformation somewhere here, and apologize for it in advance. If there is bad information here, I’d like someone to correct me, as I know less about Islam than I do say… Farsi.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

It is not a shame to share; she is posting the story of creation as she understands it so as to clarify and waylay any questions or assumptions we may have…

woow , you don’t post like a Catholic . Normally Catholics are very hostile to Muslims , what’s wrong with you ???

 

[The_Fool]

woow , you don’t post like a Catholic . Normally Catholics are very hostile to Muslims , what’s wrong with you ???

I assume you come to this board to search for truth in good faith and return the same good faith in kind. I do not know why Catholics would be hostile to Muslims as a norm in a thread that specifically requests answers for questions regarding Islam. If one is uninterested in Islam then one should not read it, however if one is interested then any discussion needs to be on rational grounds with the understanding that views we find difficult may be involved, otherwise there is no reason for discussion. However, alternative viewpoints are also bound to raise strong emotions, which make discussion difficult.

I also hope to show that not all Catholics are hostile, as is sometimes the impression. I was actually afraid to mention anything due to the strength of some negative comments, but my namesake, as hostile as she herself seemed toward Muslims, would never forgive me for not showing common human decency to a guest, Catholic or not, which I feel you are on his board.

Let us see if I have this right. خیلی خوسوقتم. روز بخیر.

 

[chrisse]

You really are too much, Jharek.

No one here is hostile to any person, but many are hostile to arguments individuals present here as propaganda on behalf of Islam. It seems you are one of those infected with the secular humanist disease of facts being replaced by narrative.

“People like R_Not” are, justifiably, hostile to the truth about mohammed and his doctrine to life. We are hostile to mohammed’s doctrine as it is foul, pornographic, barbaric and de-humanising filth and also because it is held to be the truth as revealed by allah for all time by muslims, while islam and its adherents (generally known as muslims) declare that allah is YHWH. Further, they insist that we also respect it, not criticise it, but allow it to go unchallenged while within it there are heresies, insults, threats, and dire consequences for Christians (and every other non-muslim of course).

Your name-calling is our badge of honour, Jharek. Call us racists, bigots, neo-cons or whatever the popular insult is now - this name calling is meant to silence the truth; however, it fails, it inspires us to continue as the truth will not be hidden by such as yourself who are wilfully submitting to dhimmitude.

 

[chrisse]

It is not a shame to share; she is posting the story of creation as she understands it so as to clarify and waylay any questions or assumptions we may have… I think. Secondly, Mohammad lived in an area that had a lot of different religions and a lot of people who do not read for a variety of reasons(ie money), didn’t he? We, you and I, may understand his difference of understanding to be errors, but perhaps he did not. Perhaps that is how he was taught, just like some children are taught the Trinity is Father, Son, and Mary. How could he possibly tell people to refer to the Holy Bible when there were probably, as there are today, many different versions with different interpreters to go with them? How could he possibly tell them refer to the Holy Bible when, we will all agree, you can’t just pick it up cold and understand everything you come across? I may disagree with him, but I would like to think he genuinely believed what he taught, rather than tried to make himself big by pulling whatever out of the air.

I, myself, have probably made some horrible assumptions or provided misinformation somewhere here, and apologize for it in advance. If there is bad information here, I’d like someone to correct me, as I know less about Islam than I do say… Farsi.

Interesting nick.

Anyway, small problem. The qur’an is supposedly the literal, dictated words from allah - there is no place for error, otherwise it is false.

 

[flaco40]

As the Arabs see the Jews interests me. My question would be… If the Muslim believe in the old Testament, ( I’m not sure about that If they do or if they do which books?) But if they do then I’m pretty sure that the book of Exodus would be one of the books believed in. And I’m pretty sure that God gives the land of Israel to the Jewish people in perpetuity (Exodus 33). It seems to me that he even says that he will spread them to the four corners of the earth and then bring them back to their homeland. Which seems to be exactly what he did. So wouldn’t that mean that this land (palestine/ Israel ) belongs to the Jews as the will of God?

 

[sedonaman]

The qur’an is supposedly the literal, dictated words from allah - there is no place for error, otherwise it is false.

Anyone can stand up and claim to have a message from God or about God. But the question is, as people who sincerely want to know, how are we to determine whether or not someone is actually speaking the truth from God? How are we to know if they are speaking divine truths or if they are just pretending or delusional?

In light of these questions, let’s consider for a moment what would happen if Mohammed and the Koran did not claim to be a part of previous scriptural and apostolic traditions. Essentially, there are only two choices. Mohammed can confirm previous scriptures and apostles and attempt to claim validity for himself by means of those past apostles and scriptures. Or, Mohammed can deny those previous scriptures and apostles and stand alone by himself as one voice speaking against them.

To understand the significance of this, we must understand that Mohammed admittedly performed no miracles.

The fact that Mohammed himself performed no miracles to attest to his message is made even more ironic by the fact that according to the Koran some of the previous apostles, which the Koran appeals to for validation, did perform miracles.

Since Mohammed performed no miracles, if there was to be some independent confirmation that Mohammed was sent by God and not just making it up as he went along, the validation for his message would have to come in some other way. And for such independent corroboration, the Koran appeals to the previous apostles (prophets) and the previous scriptures. And herein lies the benefit to Mohammed for affirming and claiming a place among these other apostles and scriptures. Simply put, Mohammed’s only method of validation that he was not just making things up came from his appeal to other known apostles and scriptures as confirmation of his own message. Without confirmation from other apostles and scriptures, Mohammed had no means or argument to defend himself from the accusation that he was inventing the Koran himself. We should also add that the Koran itself records repeatedly that Mohammed was accused of making up the Koran himself.

We can clearly see the inescapable dilemma that Mohammed is in.

On the one hand, Mohammed performs no miracles. So, in order to demonstrate that he is not making up the Koran by himself, he must appeal to previous apostles and scriptures as confirmation of his validity.

But, on the other hand, if Mohammed affirms previous apostles and scriptures as being sent from God in order to support his own authenticity, then Mohammed becomes subject to comparison with their teaching.

Simply put, if Mohammed and the Koran are contradicted by the very proof that they appeal to, then we can and should conclude that Islam is incorrect.

…[Detailed analysis]…

…in the Koran, Mohammed repeatedly affirms the divine origin and trueness of Judeo-Christian apostles and scriptures in order to confirm his own authenticity. We have also now thoroughly demonstrated the very clear extent to which the Koran itself contradicts the very apostles and scriptures it affirms as the true work of God.

[Base on a comparison of St. Paul’s writings, the Nicene Creed of the fourth century, and modern belief, we have also shown that Christian doctrine had not changed in the centuries before Mohammed, as he claimed to justify his own prophethood.]

Consequently, since Mohammed’s evidence for the Koran and Islam are based entirely upon appeals to these other scriptures combined with the assertion that the Koran is flawless, the entire supportive evidence for the Koran and Islam has been wiped out as a result of these contradictions with Judeo-Christian scripture. This is particularly the case since, as we have seen, Mohammed repeatedly and explicitly condemns any attempt to discriminate against or accept only portions of the previously revealed scriptures.

The conclusion to our comparative survey of the Koran and Judeo-Christianity is simply this. Mohammed has asserted himself as man sent from God to correct two religions that are established with their own scriptures and predate him by over five hundred and well over two thousand years respectively. Mohammed’s teaching contradicts the fundamental teaching of both of these religions. And the result of Mohammed’s revision of these existing religions is to make Mohammed himself the pinnacle and greatest figure of them both. The practical result is that Mohammed himself receives both a means of income through the spoils of war as well as unquestionable political authority among his followers. Mohammed performs no miracles and offers no evidence to substantiate his claim to have been sent with God’s message. And Mohammed spreads his religion through obligatory military fighting and by providing financial benefits to both converts and combatants who fight to spread his religion.

In summary, there is no reason for any objective theist to believe that Mohammed’s message is from God or that Mohammed is anything more than a man preaching a self-serving message that was spread by the normal, natural human efforts of war and financial benefit.

Ref: biblestudying.net/islam1.html

 

[The_Fool]

Interesting nick.

Anyway, small problem. The qur’an is supposedly the literal, dictated words from allah - there is no place for error, otherwise it is false.

It is not a small problem, chrisse; this is a Catholic forum. We, you and I, believe Muhammad to have been in major error, and thus to us most of it is probably false, however, not to her. I want Muslim Woman to share her vision of what is Truth, so that we can look at it and determine what our differences are, and where our commonality is. Her opinion of what Truth is, isn’t mine, and I will say I do not think Islam has full Truth, but she came here in, I assume, good faith to answer questions regarding Islam. Isn’t this a thread where we can ask questions and clarify what exactly they, or perhaps a few, of them believe rather than saying they’re all bad and that’s it? If people like her don’t answer then how are my questions going to be answered accurately? I want to disagree and dislike things for facts, not assumptions. Who was it who said many people hate what they think the Catholic Church to be, but love what it truly is? It is the same here, any disagreements I have with anyone and anything should be based upon what is, not what I think is.

I think I addressed your point, but if I didn’t, correct me, please.

And what is a nick?