Ask about Islam

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Hello Mike.

These are very interesting questions, deserving of serious attention. It is not enough - as it may appear to be - to answer each with a simple yes or no. God willing, I shall come back before the end of this week; having consulted my sources.

Thank you for your patience, and may the Beloved keep you safe.
 
@Mike_from_NJ

Hello Mike.

I apologise for the delay.

You ask:

‘Is it fair to say that a majority of judges/jurists for Islam until more recently have said that the penalty for apostasy is death, and even some of those who say death is not warranted that some earthly punishment is needed?’

There is a great deal of diversity among Islamic scholars and jurists concerning the matter of capital punishment for apostasy. For the majority (I can’t say how large a majority) apostasy is a crime, for which the maximum penalty is death. For the minority, apostasy is a sin, with no earthly punishment.

Both sides look to the Qur’an and the aḥādīth – hearsay accounts of the Prophet’ deeds and words – for justification.

While the Qur’an speaks of apostasy more than a dozen times, nowhere does it authorise an earthly punishment for abandoning faith. On the contrary, we read:

‘ There is no compulsion in religion : true guidance has become distinct from error.’ (Al-Baqara: 256; my emphasis); and this:

‘Say: “Now the truth has come from your Lord: let those who wish to believe in it do so, and let those who wish to reject it do so .”’ (Al-Kahf: 18; again, my emphasis); and this:

‘As for those who believe, then reject the faith, then believe again, then reject the faith again and become increasingly defiant, Allāh will not forgive them, nor will He guide them on any path.’ (Al-Nisa: 137).

In a footnote to this last verse, Dr. Mohammad Hashim Kamali, a noted Islamic scholar and former professor of law at the International Islamic University of Malaysia, writes:

‘Had apostasy been subject to a temporal punishment, it would have been mentioned here. For this Qur’anic verse clearly visualises instances of renunciation of Islam more than once without actually mentioning a punishment for it.’ (‘Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence’).

The Qur’an makes it perfectly clear that Allāh (subḥānahu ūta’āla) reserves for Himself the right to judge, and to punish, apostates. The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) has no say in the matter. His role is to convey the message – to preach and teach the Faith, as expressed in the Qur’an – and nothing more. He is not to impose it by force:

‘Ask those who were given the Scripture, as well as those without one: “Do you too devote yourselves to Him alone?” If they do, they will be guided, but if they turn away, your only duty is to convey the message . Allāh is aware of His servants.’ (Al-‘Imran: 18-20; my emphasis). See also Al-Kahf: 29; Al-Ma’ida: 92.

If the Prophet was given no authority to punish apostasy, then by what authority do we?

Continued:
 
You ask: ‘Is it fair to say that (the) two Hadith collections (Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim) are considered true by Sunni Muslims?

The Muslim Community is divided on this matter. At one extreme we have the Qur’anists; folk who consider all aḥādīth to be unreliable; worthy only of outright rejection. At the opposite extreme are those who claim that to doubt the authenticity of even a single ḥādīth is to place oneself outside the fold of Islam.

The majority of Muslims appear to float somewhere in between.

Dr. Kamil writes:

‘Muslim jurists and ulama have developed elaborate methodologies for the authentication of hadith with the purpose precisely to enhance the scope of scientific objectivity in their conclusions. This they have done in full awareness that in no other branch of Islamic learning has there been as much distortion and forgery as in hadith.’ (‘A Textbook of Ḥādīth Studies’; my emphasis).

There was extensive forgery of aḥādīth in the early decades of Islam, following the murder of Uthman – the third caliph. According to Dr. Kamil, the killing of Uthman ‘dealt a heavy blow to the unity of the umma’, resulting in ‘the emergence of serious political differences and partisan groups such as Shia, Kharijites and Mutazila.’

An ḥādīth that stands in conflict with the Quran – such that no reasonable compromise or interpretation can reconcile the two; or one that conflicts with the accepted behaviour of the Prophet, or with another ḥādīth; or with human experience; or with the natural sciences must be treated with caution.

There is a limit to the number of posts a person can make in succession. If you would be so good as to acknowledge today’s posts – without comment at this stage, please – then I will post the remaining one.
 
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Many thanks, Upant.

@Mike_from_NJ

Finally, you ask: ‘Is it fair to say that Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim both state that the penalty for apostasy is death?

Ah………this is a matter of interpretation!

The ‘apostasy’ aḥādīth of Sahih Muslim are – in effect – duplicates of al-Bukhari’s, and so I shall focus on the latter’s.

The principal ḥādīth offered in support of the death penalty for apostasy is this: ‘Ibn Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah said, “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.”’ (Sahih Al-Bukhari).

I believe this ḥādīth is a forgery (I gave my reasons about nine days ago).

Dr. Kamil and Professor Saeed argue that this ḥādīth is ambiguous, and in need of interpretation, since – if taken literally – it would require the death penalty for, say, a Jew who becomes a Christian; or a Christian or Hindu who becomes a Muslim.

Dr Kamil reminds us that: ‘According to the rules of Islamic jurisprudence, when a text becomes open to one level of interpretation, it is automatically reduced from the level of the definitive (qat͑i) to that of speculative (zanni) and may henceforth be subjected to further levels of interpretation, which would, in this case, most likely be that this hadith had envisaged treason as a capital offence and not apostasy as such .’ (‘A Textbook of Ḥādīth Studies – Authenticity, Compilation, Classification and Criticism of Ḥādīth’; my emphasis).

He goes on:

‘ There is no evidence to indicate that the Prophet Muhammad himself ever imposed the death penalty on any apostate for a simple act of conversion from Islam . If such evidence had existed, it would have provided the necessary prophetic authority to back the death penalty. On the contrary, however, one hadith in the collection of Bukhari (one of the most important collections of hadith for Sunni Muslims) details a man who came to Medina and converted to Islam. Shortly after his arrival, this man wanted to return to his former religion and asked the Prophet for permission to do so. The Prophet let him go free, without imposing the death penalty or, indeed, any punishment .’ (Ibid; my emphasis).

Abdullah Saeed writes of this ḥādīth:

‘This man several times sought permission from the Prophet to be released from Islam but the Prophet declined, before eventually allowing him to leave Medina and revert to idolatry. Had the Prophet wanted to impose capital punishment for apostasy, he could have done so .’ (‘Freedom of Religion, Apostasy and Islam’; my emphasis).

In summary: Apostasy is a sin, and not a crime. There is no justification – either within the Qur’an or in the deeds of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) – for any kind of temporal punishment for simply leaving the Faith. In short, such punishment has no place in Islam.
 
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@Niblo Thank you for the responses. Please do not concern yourself with the time to respond, as a well-researched response is always preferable to a rapid-fire one. I will take some time to do further research and get back to you.
 
Good morning, Mike.

Agreed!

I look forward to reading the fruit of your labour, ʾin šāʾ Allāh.

Have a good day, and very best regards.
 
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What would it take for you to become Catholic? i know its a hard question becuse when i ask myself “what would it take for me to become a muslim” it feels weird and uncomfortable, but i belive we are both committed to our beliefs and to the truth, so its important to look at the other side as well.
 
Niblo said:
Concerning Asia Bibi’s alleged blasphemy against the Prophet:
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Looking for a bit of variation of entertainment under lockdown, we’ve been taking in some Turkish TV on Netflix and have come to the conclusion that one crucial difference between tough Turkish TV detectives and tough American/European TV detectives is that, while an exasperated Western city cop of today might exclaim: “God! WTF is going on?”, his Turkish equivalent city cop of today would shout: “Allah! WTF is going on?”

I expect what counts as blasphemy may vary very considerably in the Muslim ‘world’.
 
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LOL.

Ah…but a Jewish cop would know exactly what’s going on 😉

Yes, I think it would.
 
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Hi.

Thank you for your interest. Please read my profile. If you have any questions after doing so, then please feel free to ask.

Have a very good day.
 
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What do you think ISLAM has better than Catholicism (since you converted from one to the other)? feel free to share some of your studies, i know just a little bit about ISLAM.
 
LeonardoArruda said:
What do you think ISLAM has better than Catholicism (since you converted from one to the other)? feel free to share some of your studies, i know just a little bit about ISLAM.
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Hello again,

Allāh (subḥānahu ūta’āla) tells us: ‘We have assigned a law and a path to each of you. If Allāh had so willed, He would have made you one community, but He wanted to test you through that which He has given you, so race to do good: you will all return to Allāh and He will make clear to you the matters you differed about.’ (Al-Ma’ida: 48).

Who am I to claim that my path (my religion) is somehow better – in any particular way – to some other’s?

This is what the Exalted has to say about Jews and Christians:

‘Those who believe and do good deeds are the best of creation . Their reward with their Lord is everlasting Gardens graced with flowing streams, where they will stay forever . God is well pleased with them and they with Him. All this is for those who stand in awe of their Lord.’ (Al-Bayyina 7 -8; my emphasis ).

These verses assure me that every Christian, and every Jew, who carries the Exalted in their hearts, and who strives to do good, will have their reward. This is a solemn promise, and the Exalted does not renege on His promises.

It’s good practice to quote one’s sources when the need arises, and I do. If anyone wishes to pursue that source for their own development, then that is for them. However, I have a personal set of rules – as a guest of this Forum – one of which to refrain from publicising any particular source of Islamic knowledge; or from posting unsolicited comments about Islam. I hope you will understand.

May the Exalted continue to guide you along the path He has chosen for you.
 
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🤣

Reminded me of this:

‘Myself when young did eagerly frequent

Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument

About it and about; but evermore

Came out by that same Door as in I went.’ ‘(The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám’).

But no coffee! 😒
 
Niblo said:
Ah…but a Jewish cop would know exactly what’s going on 😉
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No, we turn up as soon as the words “I’m not talking without my brief/lawyer,” 'cause we got the ‘questionable’ lawyer franchise sewn up. 😵

Meanwhile, people might be rather surprised that the life of many Muslims in the modern, industrial cities of a country like Turkey is really terribly ‘normal’ from a Western perspective.
 
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🤣

Love it.

Not been to Turkey, but from what I’ve been told by family members who have (and from what I’ve witnessed in Morocco), yes.
 
Niblo said:
I hope you will understand.
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Its ok, i am sincerely concerned when i see people going away from the Church, i imagine you would feel the same if you hear that a loved one has left islam, you dont need to share anything that makes you uncomfortable though.

I have a new question:

Among the many interpretations of a text (Bible or quran), its reasonable to assume that either one of them its correct or all of them are wrong, among christians for exemple we know (at least we should) that the Catholic interpretation of the Bible is the correct one (since the Catholic Church was the one to compile the Bible in the first place) and that the protestant view is not.

My question is: what branch of islam are you in and why? and what way of reading the quran is the correct one?
Niblo said:
so race to do good
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since i could just read that and say “look we need to have superior race”, that would be a incorrect way of reading the quran, and if i made a new branch of islam based on that, it would be really bad.
 
Hello, Leonardo.

You wonder what ‘branch’ of Islam I follow, and why.

I am a Sunni; for the simple reason that the bulk of my knowledge of Islam is derived from them.

My chosen school of theology is Ash‘ari; a school that represents the creed (‘aqida’) of the majority of Sunni Muslims; and has done so for over a thousand years.

These schools agree on the six articles of faith (known collectively as arkān al-īmān) to which all Muslims should adhere; namely:

Belief in the Oneness of Allāh (subḥānahu ūta’āla): Muslims believe, as you do, that the Exalted is the Creator and Sustainer of all things; and that He is both omnipotent and omniscient. The majority of Muslims believe – as you and I do – that He is also omnipresent. Puritans dispute this. All Muslims are unitarian.

Belief in His angels: The one difference between the Muslim and Christian understanding of these beings is that, for us, they do not possess free will. They worship their Lord, and carry out His commands. They did not, and cannot, rebel against Him.

Belief in His Books: These include the Qur’an; the Torah (given to Moses); the ʾInjīl (given to Yeshua); the Psalms (given to David); and the Scrolls (given to Abraham).

Belief in His Prophets or Messengers: Twenty-five are mentioned by name in the Qur’an; and include Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Yeshua (may the Exalted be pleased with all of them).

Belief in the Day of Judgment: Muslims and Christians would find common ground here.

Belief in the Divine Decree: In a nutshell, nothing happens without the Exalted’s decree; His fiat. In the Qur’an we read: ‘Do not say of anything, “I will do that tomorrow,” without adding, “God willing,” and whenever you forget, remember your Lord and say, “May my Lord guide me closer to what is right.”’ (Al-Kahf: 23-24).

Continued:
 
You ask: ‘What way of reading the Qur’an is the correct one?’

Muhammad Abdel Haleem OBE, Professor of Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, writes

‘A most relevant and fruitful approach to understanding the text of the Qur’an is by means of two key concepts developed by Muslim scholars in the Classical period: context and internal relationships.

‘The importance of context (maqām) was recognised and formulated for the study of the text of the Qur’an by Muslim linguists whose work in this respect anticipated by many centuries modern linguistic thinking about the crucial importance of context in understanding discourse. Internal relationships were encapsulated in the dictum: al-Qur’an yufassir ba‘ḍuhu ba‘ḍa (some parts of the Qur’an explain others) – in modern linguistic terms ‘intertextuality’ – which, given the structure of Qur’anic material, was argued to provide the most correct method of understanding the Qur’an.’ (‘Understanding the Qur’an – Themes and Style’).

Until recently – in a different thread, entitled ‘Hate thy Family and Love thy Enemies’ (Moral Theology Category) – I was in discussion with @Genesis315, concerning his interpretation of certain verses in sūrah Al-Ma’ida. I came to feel that our conversation was not appropriate for that particular thread, and suggested that it be continued here. I repeat my invitation.

It is my intention to return to these verses; and, I hope, to answer your question at the same time.

In šāʾ Allāh, I shall return to this matter once we have concluded any discussion on your first question.

Peace.
 
Is interfaith marriage allowed in Islam?

I have a in law whom is Muslim…she is married to a Catholic.
 
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