From an atheistic perspective, what is “unfair” (after all Bill Gates has more money than I do - is that unfair?), and when is it “wrong” as opposed to just the way the world is?
No. What right would I have to do that?
I don’t know if I’d agree with the statement that one has to “be convinced they were wrong” before they change their belief. There are certainly times when that is the case. I mean, if an alien shows up in my backyard tomorrow, I’m going to start believing in aliens.
CS Lewis’ “Surprised by Joy” was a key component in my return (after 30 years) to the Church.Thanks for the suggestions! I’m going to start reading up on Mr. Chesterton and go ahead and Read C.S’s book. Thanks for the well wishes, as well!
I don’t see why. But, at any rate, that was certainly not my intention.
I’m not sure that belief contradicts theism. Actually, when I researched a lot of the church teachings on issues that people would argue “don’t harm anyone”, what I learned was that the purpose behind those rules was to avoid harm - either to ourselves, our relationship with God, or our relationship with others.
As you say, you would change your mind with more (or different) evidence. But someone abandoning a belief because of the cost involved or because of peer pressure doesn’t strike me as a genuine belief in the first place. And secondly, abandoning a belief isn’t an example of one changing a belief.Wozza:
I don’t know if I’d agree with the statement that one has to “be convinced they were wrong” before they change their belief. There are certainly times when that is the case. I mean, if an alien shows up in my backyard tomorrow, I’m going to start believing in aliens.
But that’s not always the case. Lots of people choose to abandon beliefs (especially religious beliefs) because they simply become unhappy with what they perceive as the cost of adhering to those beliefs. Other succumb to peer pressure. Their decision is based less on a measured, objective analysis of the evidence than it is on simply assessing the cost of holding onto the belief versus abandoning it.
That’s why I asked the initial question. It is, essentially, asking someone to answer why they chose that outcome in Pascal’s Wager.
It’s possible that they never had a genuine belief. I tend not to try to assess the quality of one’s belief.
It’s the second one with which we might have a problem. If I don’t believe in God I can’t harm Him. So any argument you use as that as a basis will fail. Secondly, and this will always be a problem whatever your belief system, we have to agree on what actually constitutes harm.SomeGuyWithQuestions:
I’m not sure that belief contradicts theism. Actually, when I researched a lot of the church teachings on issues that people would argue “don’t harm anyone”, what I learned was that the purpose behind those rules was to avoid harm - either to ourselves, our relationship with God, or our relationship with others.
That implies a neutral stance on whatever matter we’d be discussing. You might move from ‘I believe aliens have landed’ to '‘I have abandoned my belief that aliens have landed’. As opposed to '‘I don’t believe that aliens have landed’.Wozza:
It’s possible that they never had a genuine belief. I tend not to try to assess the quality of one’s belief.
But abandoning a belief is changing it. If I believe X is true, and I abandon my belief that X is true, I’ve changed my belief.
What is the actual difference between “I no longer believe aliens have landed” and "I don’t believe aliens have landed?
If Bill has earned his money in an honest way then the fact that he has more is not unfair in the sense we are using it. In the sense that cheating is unfair.Wozza:
From an atheistic perspective, what is “unfair” (after all Bill Gates has more money than I do - is that unfair?), and when is it “wrong” as opposed to just the way the world is?
But rather than drag this discussion out (it’s not really the topic of the thread), I’ll just say, as many others have said, that I think many atheists sneak in Christian morality without recognizing that from an atheistic view, Christian morality holds no authority over them.
I’ll start by saying that I think you’re probably being way too dismissive of Aquinas. Beyond that, I’ll list a few resources you might want to investigate.