Asking all priests: Why not talk about the hard issues at Mass?

[IsaiahSpirit]

It is never supposed to be ‘hell fire and brimstone,’ only the compassionate assertive truth to strive to bring back the days, when taking innocent life was seen very much more as unthinkable.
The complacency of the status quo of laws and practices giving an ‘air of acceptability,’ with so much playing at heartstrings rhetoric in the educational & other venues of society hurting consciences;
does not help.
There are many things to life one another up with dignity to form the vast sustained sign of life and charity in all the venues & works of The Church, John Paul ii directed.

 

[goout]

If I had to guess why our pastor does not talk repeatedly and explicitly about these issues:
It’s because they cause division and anxiety among people. And he has a way of giving piercing and challenging homilies without engaging in apologetic talking points.

These issues are gravely important. And there are different ways to help people reform themselves and change the culture. And every pastor has his particular gifts, and he ought to employ them the way God is calling him to do. Just like the rest of us.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Abolition of slavery and the civil rights movement took so long because of complacency regarding engaging in compassionate building one another up courageous exhortations inside Church walls and in the public sphere in general.
In times of dire need; when there is a media & other venue bias to obscure grave moral atrocities - it is a time of raising a vast sign of specific apropos historically necessary charity & life —> with specific ministries to engage these things.
~
It’s true that only Jesus Christ knows hearts; and why each person at every stewardship level is or is not diligently addressing our difficult time in specific ways.
Is it a sense of charity and lack of knowledge or giving into ‘politically correct’ peer pressure? Only He knows.
But there is a vast world wide movement using terms like
‘coexistence’ ‘tolerance’ ‘inclusiveness’ that plays on heartstrings for a lukewarmness toward accepting grace toward true inner healing, ‘social justice’ false Jesus.
They purposely create a ‘victim’ mentality; and clever community organizing techniques on a grand scale. These are the true divisive things happening; detracting from the authentic Gospel, and raising awareness of it.
~
We need to be more of Grace filled one mind in communicating in every highway and hedgerow; as Jesus Christ would have us do.
Peace.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s as though we think, if people are ignorant of Catholic teaching on contraception, it’s because Father doesn’t talk about it for 5 minutes twice a year during Mass. And if only Father were willing to do that, millions of people would be convinced and converted to the truth of Catholic teaching.

I think it’s more like they have some pet issue, usually a sexual issue, and they think if Father talked about it every homily from now till doomsday, people would suddenly realize the particular sexual acts were sinful and quit doing them. Which is highly unlikely. People have a great propensity to deny, tune out, ignore, avoid etc whatever they don’t want to hear when they want to do something and the Church says no.

Meanwhile, everybody else who isn’t committing sexual sins at this point in their life - and there are many who aren’t - would be sitting there wondering why Father never talks about the one million other sins out there.

 

[Aquinas11]

At the EF Parish I attend, the Priest will talk about the hard issues. He will address abortion or gay marriage or the Abuse Crisis in the Church, he will cite encyclicals like St Pius X that forecasted attacks on the Church from within, etc. He will encourage people to get involved in society, to run for public office if they have that inclination, to speak to others and don’t feel despair, there is no dodging the hard issues.

At the OF Parish I attend, the Priests are much safer in their homilies. To be fair to them, they have a much larger mix of Traditionalists and Progressives , etc so if they address the hard issues, one group will surely get upset. If they focus on issues like immigration and being more sympathetic to migrants, one group will get upset with them. If they focus on other issues like abortion or gay marriage, other groups will get upset with them. They can’t win. So their homilies are usually pretty abstract and as they’re talking I’m thinking that there are hard issues that are not being answered, but at same time trying to be sympathetic to where they’re coming from.

 

[margaret42]

Perhaps if some Catholics understood why the church teaches objective sins, then there’d be less reason for them or the priest to be offended. People aren’t judged in the Church; actions are, and because Christ taught them first.

 

[blackforest]

In my opinion, these issues NEED to be talked about at Mass.

A deacon at my old parish told me that a 10-minute homily simply cannot give justice to these issues. If it’s done, it needs to be done gingerly. If a priest addresses the horrors of abortion, for example, the parish pro-life committee should be in the narthex with information on resources for women dealing with unexpected pregnancies or post-abortion trauma.

That homily isn’t the only chance a parish has, either. Youth ministry and adult ed classes should take a boldfaced approach to addressing these topics . . . and can do so with greater detail and context.

 

[MarysLurker]

Is it because priests are afraid that they may offend someone?
Is it because priests are afraid that parishioners will stop donating money?

Those two.

Most Catholic dioceses are shoestring operations. The cultural Catholics are funding everything, basically subsidizing operations for the faithful minority. It’s sort of a principle of double effect thing. Better that these folks get some Gospel since they won’t stand for the full Gospel; and better that they put some money in the plate than none at all. I don’t like this, but I understand that if it isn’t this way, there won’t be a Church.

My diocese just closed two schools. We have five left and can barely afford to keep them afloat while tuition goes up and up. The parishes are all full, but mostly with people barely above or well below the poverty line, plus refugees—poor in wealth but wealthy in spirit. As I said, the unfaithful rich subsidizing the faithful poor.

Edit: to be sure—all the clergy are 100% faithful. They WILL correctly explain all the tough questions in private, but seldom from the altar.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

There are a lot of good points here; but ignoring or greatly diminishing ‘hard issues’ historically has always failed the faithful and society. No amount of giving into pandering because of fearing reaction justifies complacency.
The hard issues need proper proportion. The need creative compassion to build one another up respecting the dignity of the person. And they do need the explanations of why they are so important.
I watch good Catholic teacher all of the time. Many of their compassionate comments address particular aspects of a difficult situation, falling well within a time frame of a homily.
A much greater one voice is necessary for everyone.
A great example of this; if the teachings of St. Dominic & St. Francis & St. Benedict were heeded with sustained Holy Spirit courage; including exhortation the abuses of the later middle ages could have been avoided. Historical times need what historical times need for the faithful. Abstractions abound and are not very effective. Peace.

 

[PeterT]

Satire? Kind of rude, but hey ho.

It’s not my experience. I am tired of hearing about sexual morality, and am very tired of the thinking that it’s the only topic that matters. A quick wander round CAF shows us that many folk, and many Christians, don’t care about the poor and believe that poverty and mental illness are somehow self inflicted. But are fixated on sexual morality.

The topic of this thread is NOT what is discussed here in CAF, so any discussion of that is frankly off-topic. The topic of this thread is what priests AVOID discussing during their homilies. Does the priests at your church often talk about sexual morality during their homilies?

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Spiritual Works of Mercy and Corporal Works of Mercy both need to be stressed prudently with weighted concern to historical times, with objective compassionate assertiveness. Divisiveness comes around with ‘straw man’ arguments from either side.
~
Clearly, lack of compassionately, clearly, objectively asserting firm purpose of amendment to cooperate with God’s Grace to diligently strive to avoid sin & near occasions of sin creates an atmosphere of earthly material based disordered desires given into more by those aiding by complacency to develop a lack of informed conscience.
This in turn aides and abets poverty because of focus on material things to anesthetize the restless heart yearning for God. Godliness, naturally helps form more consciences to take care of the poor in an objective dire need fashion.
~
The greatest poverty in the world, is consciences & psyches; subconsciously or knowingly suffering greatly by giving into the culture of death brutally murdering tens of thousands of children every single day; with so many justifications contrary to The Natural Law and The Gospel of our beloved Savior Jesus Christ.
~
Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, Mother Teresa, and many others stressed very much, we do not serve the poor by ‘social justice,’ but by caring for the poor as a Eucharistic People.
Some deliberately, some by lack of knowledge want to create a ‘social justice’ Jesus and Gospel; even giving into distorted using the poor for that purpose. It is extremely clear, as so many secular humanists or in the name of Jesus Christ who foster and encourage the legal & adjudicated ‘air of acceptability’ of the culture of death over the decades flip on moral issues and change from reasoned approaches to concerns for the poor & other social justice to radical ones. This is true by recent historical happenings. Peace.

 

[goout]

Cecilia_Dympna:

I find CAF to be in many ways a mile away from Catholics in the real world. I have met some wonderful people here. But the fascination with sexual morals as the only subject that counts … not getting it.

That’s my experience, too. I’ve lived in five states in the US, from San Diego to Vermont, in big cities, a small city and rural areas, and rarely meet anyone in real life like the faction of posters “fascinated by sexual morals” here on CAF. And CAF is a lot more moderate than many of the other Catholic forums out there.

To be fair, if someone lays a pile of flaming dung on your doorstep, you can hardly complain when they try to respond promptly and proportionally.

Does that make sense?

CAF is definitely rigourous on many fronts. It’s apologetics. Apologetics address the needs and issues of the day, and this culture idolizes sexual license as well as license in general.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

All the ‘inciteful’ and emotionally based arguments here do not help compassionate objectivity. Peace.

 

[blackforest]

I think there’s a right, balanced approach to take with sexual morals. We can’t pretend they don’t exist, and with my children rapidly approaching the teen years in a hyper-sexualized culture, they need all of the support they can get from their faith community.

It’s also unhealthy to hyper-focus on these issues. I believe that these topics are best addressed in a personal setting with a priest or deacon on hand - ideally at confession, youth ministry, or adult ed functions - and not among online lay Catholics.

 

[alphonsus1]

Very few people in the pews agree with Catholic sexual and gender morality. Can we please stop emphasizing sex and gender?

Way less emphasis on:
direct abortion, direct contraception/ sterilization, homosexual/ heterosexual sodomy, natural onanism/ other types of onanism, fornication/ adultery, masturbation, non-unitive sex, lustful thoughts, mortal sins of complacencies, modesty in dress/ speech, transgender surgery/ hormones/ cross sex hormones, artificial insemination (IVF), custody of your eyes, gender roles, etc.

Way more emphasis on:
Immigration, the death penalty, climate change and environmental issues, unjust discrimination, charity, doing small acts with great love, ridding society of envy/ greed/ jealousy, giving people the benefit of the doubt and turning the other cheek, ministering to prison inmates, assisting the most vulnerable/ people on the margins, not passing judgment, being emotionally aware, showing respect/compassion/sensitivity, caring for the elderly, helping to provide basic healthcare/ shelter/ education, assuring minimum and living wages to combat the excesses of capitalism, and so much more

Preaching on hard ‘sexual’ and ‘gender’ issues could very well drive people away. In which case, they would still be doing those same sins, they would just be sinning while being a non-practicing Catholic at the same time. In summary. Let us put the sexual morality to the side, emphasize it less (but still emphasize it somewhat), and change tone to care more about helping the poor, environmental issues, immigration, discrimination Please look up Fr. Martin’s tone He does a good job!

 

[alphonsus1]

What forums are more or less extreme?

What are your thoughts on:

Having different tones when around different people. This is because there are many different, but equally valid, paths to holiness. There may be one ‘tone’ that motivates one person to pray, but an entirely different ‘tone’ that motivates another person

So for example, while on the pulpit, a preist should rarely emphasize sexual issues. But on the peripheries, on forums for traditionalist Catholics, these ‘hard’ issues can be emphasized more. I mean: we can have different platforms for different audiences. In this way, most Catholics can have a platform that never emphasizes sexual morality, but more conservative, traditional YouTube channels can still emphasize sexual morality, the dangers of Hell, etc. How does that sound?

 

[GordonP]

How does that sound?

That sounds like the “pluricentric” Church that some envision as the future of the Catholic Church.

The simple version is that the Church will eventually split into a Traditionalist branch, a Conservative one, and a Progressive one, much like Judaism is divided into its Orthodox, Conservative and reformed branches. The branches would operate independently of each other, but be under a figurehead pope. This is the simple version, but there are other speculative schemes of how this would evolve.

I don’t think this is likely for several reasons. First of all, there are strong centrifugal forces working on the Church, on both the right and the left. The Traditionalists have no desire to be together in the same Church as the Progressives, and are eagerly anathemizing everyone they don’t like, even the Pope. And though Progressives are more live and let live, they have grown tired of attacks from the right and have lost their appetite for continued coexistence.

The second thing against it is that those on the far-right are obsessed with ideological purity to the point that they are unwilling and unable to stay under the same roof with their fellow Traditionalists. There have been multiple fractures within their ranks already, with over two hundred schismatic sedevacantist and conclavist groups that either completely ignore each other, or engage in bitter infighting. Further splits are inevitable, with few, if any, groups remaining large and stable enough to maintain coherence or sustainability.

Some point to Orthodox Judaism as a model for Traditionalist Catholicism in the future, but I think that is delusional. The strong, age-old centripetal forces that keep Orthodox Jewish identity intact are utterly lacking in the Traditonalist sub-world, and it’s going to take more than their common dislike of Muslims and the LGBT community, and of non-Traditionalist Catholics, to hold them together.

So I am not at all convinced that a pluricentric model would work. In the real world, at least.

As for what’s going to happen in the virtual world of the internet, I am not too interested. And I don’t think it is going to have much impact on what is going to happen in the real world.

I’m genuinely intellectually curious about how all this is going to play out.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Emphasizing what the Church teaches with assertive compassion of The Gospel is what we are called to do.
Jesus Christ never compromise on conveying Spiritual Works of Mercy and Corporal Works of Mercy in unison; and neither do the Epistles.
Catholic Answers does this. Ascension Presents does this. Renewal Ministries does this. EWTN and her ministries do this.
Detailed reasons as to why Natural Law objective morality is true; and how Jesus Christ called everyone to be yoked by His easy yoke in all hardships for the narrow and difficult way to life in sustained creative ways promotes true inner peace and the real causes of societal discord due to the fallacy of moral relativism. This causes lack of the true inner peace that God objectively gives; and thus the widespread societal discord, the real source of divisiveness. Complacency toward this results in the status quo; or our times getting worse, not true peace.
There is only one God. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life; not pluralistic.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

The commentary today was on freedom but in general terms where I go, it was a Communion service.
But I listened to Morning Glory put out by EWTN every morning during the week at 7 a.m. It was about freedom and specific assertively compassionate historically relevant Gospel of Jesus Christ freedom in line with the Creator given right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These authentic teachings hold up the dignity and value of every person; no matter what grave moral evil tendencies they may suffer from; exhorting with charity for resolving hardships in Jesus Christ’s Commands to take the narrow road to life. When we are complacent in this; it enables, and we need to learn from Jesus Christ’s teaching us never to lead astray. For this all came about by complacency in confronting those that authentic teaching of The Gospel; compassionately done; with charity, recognizing its about The Way to life doesn’t degrade the person; but reveals harmful things to a person and society.
~
Over the decades complacency caused this to happen. Complacency only enables the status quo or makes things worse. We have a God given duty to live the truth, and share the truth and it’s many God given benefits, including greater God given inner harmony.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Since today is Independence Day here is a quote from back then.
“Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.”
-Charles Carroll, Founding Father and the only Catholic signer of the Declaration of Independence
Falls in line with John Adams in 1798 addressing the militia in Massachusetts; which contains this quote:
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams
~
Doesn’t it seem obvious that those who hold that God & morality are changeable human reasoned societal concepts & mores greatly influenced how culture is today, with all of it’s lack of pursuing ideals and disillusionment? Complacency toward moral relativism hurts parishioners. And the lack of inner peace; being anesthetized by other means greatly contributes to the status quo of a culture of death solution by those who tout certain social justice concerns always with us.
~
Complacency rather that sustained assertive compassion toward everyone regarding Spiritual & Corporal Works of Mercy show its results in all of history.
The real source of divisions is the lack of this over the decades growing more and more.
It’s partly how God’s Providence works by laws of reciprocity. Peace.