Assassin's Creed Odyssey: Inclusive Revisionism

[Paddy1989]

So your telling me that the game developers decided to make almost every character in this game bisexual to appeal to more people and normalize it? Isn’t that what i’ve been saying? To normalize it but more so they aren’t just attempting to normalize sexual orientations as being changeable with the time of day but also making gender interchangeable by making male and female
Identical even disregarding the physical attributes which is most obvious. We live in a society where very confused indivduals in the name of inclusiveness are expressing errors of human nature. Mainly that gender, sexual orientation etc is just a state of mind.

 

[YHWH_Christ]

 

[Paddy1989]

Elves and orcs aren’t real of course but their nature is. Their physical attributes is meant to make obvious the manifestations of their nature so for example orcs being savage, cruel and brutish. The elves full of pride and vanity etc, of course there can be good traits associated with these indivduals but these traits express a generlization about these races. Male and female of course are the same race but in reality likewise have different traits, different strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other but in this game and some others they are never shown. It is a Game exclusively where female protagonists are essentially reskinned male characters. In the name of inclusiveness they try to reprsent the female gender but in reality they are rarely represent them at all. The only representation they get is what us men find would be more enjoyable to play as which is a character with all the attributes a male has. Now thats irony.

 

[ZMystiCat]

It is a Game exclusively where female protagonists are essentially reskinned male characters.

And that’s pretty standard for games with a gender option for the protagonist. While gender selection might affect dialogue and romance options, that still isn’t always guaranteed.

 

[xNoOnex]

Thats not what this subject is about. It’s about how this game is actively promoting social issues that are being pushed by popular culture as the norm, mainly being gender indifference and sexual orientation being equalized to the point were almost every characted you meet is bisexual were we are fit to engage in sexual relations. Its a SJW oaradise essentially and i’d getting sick of it being rammed down our throats through every medium

I understand the subject completely. I know what the video creator, American Krogan, was going to say the moment I knew the video was one of his. He’s a culture warrior and frankly I’m tired of the lot not matter what they say, especially when it comes to video games since that’s my escape from drama.

But the reason developers make everyone “bisexual” (in reality, “playersexual” since more often than not the characters seldom show attraction to anyone EXCEPT the player character) is two-fold. 1.) It’s easier to not have to code multiple flags that can, and will, break. 2.) It prevents the company from getting complaints that they can have sex with their favorite people.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Or even Gone With the Wind.

Artists have always taken liberties with their works set in history.

Oh my yes.

GWTW gets a lot of heat for portraying the smart Black people as being on the same side as their masters and against the Yankees and downplaying the horrors of chattel slavery.

Margaret Mitchell was pretty forward thinking in her attitudes about race, considering she was a Southern white woman. But when she researched GWTW, she spent a lot of time talking to the older generation who remembered the Civil War, and drew her POV from their stories.

Were they unreliable narrators in how they thought Black people viewed slavery? Absolutely. But she was accurate in her portrayal of what those particular White people believed.

 

[xNoOnex]

People here forget that fantasy needs to make sense and be relateable to human nature. This is something C.S lewis and J.r.r Tolkien understand very well when creating their worlds. Can you imagine if they made the orcs to have the same attributes of elves or elves the same attributes of orcs? How much would this make sense? It would cause a disconnect from immersion. Would you same people whinge thats its just a fantasy? Fantasy is creative and poetic ways in which can express truth of our human nature. One can learn for example alot more about love, courage and hope from lord of the rings than a reality tv show were people are confused what gender they are. Immersive fantasies are stories that excite us because they connect with our soul

Thre’s actually a fantasy setting, written by a Russian author Alexie Pechow, where orcs and elves are the same. Sure, elves talk about how orc have crude,vulgar features and orcs same similar things about elves… The subtle differences are the cause of conflict, which is more reflective of the real world. There’s a lot of animosity between Russia and Ukraine, or England and Ireland which is understandable if you do research into it or are part of those cultures… But if you’re an outside with no knowledge it feels odd.

While I disagree with the mindset that fantasy doesn’t have to have some consistency within it’s world building, there’s a lot of ways you can make things immersive.

 

[ZMystiCat]

It’s easier to not have to code multiple flags that can, and will, break.

Granted, Leliana from Dragon Age: Origins was bisexual, and her romance was so glitched that it was possible you’d never be given a chance to enter it. Yes, it did happen to me during my first playthrough.

 

[Paddy1989]

So am i right in thinking Alexie Pechow fantasy setting is about how two sides who hold animosity towards each other view each other in relation to how one sees the other as orcs in their brutish and savage behavior? That is vastly different to why the Orcs and elves are characterized the way they are in lord of the rings. Also as for someone who is outside these conflicts in which understanding them feels odd. While that may be so you can still relate to them. I mean can you not relate to the struggle for independence or the lure of greed and power which these conflicts were based over and plagues all of mankind? You may not understand the full ins and outs of these conflicts but they are surely relateable to you. Thats why fantasy draws us in, it relates to our nature. What i can’t relate to is the idea that we are interchangeable and that sexual orientation being geared towards the same sex is as natural as what biology intended.

 

[Paddy1989]

Well first it is very clear that the characters are not player sexual and hold feelings for other characters throughout the game of both sexes, there is constant innuendos at times that i find immature at best. Second i don’t buy that as i’ve never played a game where almost everyone is bisexual. It’s distracting, the developers obviously took the historical aspect that homosexual acts were minimally practiced by the ancient Greeks and mixed in with their ideology of LBGT have created an ancient Greece where it’s out of control. The intentions is to normalize these relations by giving the impression that they are more common than we realize which is simply not true. I would just like the whole SJW nonsense to keep out of mediums where we try to escape from it. how is it that such a minority of people have so much influence in the entertainment industry?

 

[ZMystiCat]

Well first it is very clear that the characters are not player sexual and hold feelings for other characters

In many of these games, the NPCs have romantic relationships beyond that of what they have with the player. The player behaves more as an option for them, though they will obviously respond to some set of flags. Sometimes this can define the sexuality of the NPC. For instance, Leliana from Dragon Age: Origins only mentions past female partners, but she’s still willing to romance the player even if the player’s character is male.

It’s distracting

Really? I’ve never found it distracting. Yeah, it was a bit lazy on Dragon Age 2’s part, but I wouldn’t have known about it if not for the wiki. The same goes for Fallout 4, though I learned about that from some YouTuber who really liked it due to him being bisexual and polyamorous. Saints Row IV also used it to fantastic affect in parodying romances in video games.

the developers obviously took the historical aspect that homosexual acts were minimally practiced by the ancient Greeks and mixed in with their ideology of LBGT have created an ancient Greece where it’s out of control

And if they accurately portrayed sex in ancient Greece, there’d be a lot of stuff you’d complain about. For starters, there would still be relationships between two males, it would just be that one would be an adult and one would be an adolescent.

The intentions is to normalize these relations by giving the impression that they are more common than we realize which is simply not true.

Or it is because they know that there are LGBT players who play their games, and they aren’t intending to leave them out, because having such a relationship is relatable to them and makes the fantasy more immersive for them. Seriously, it’s not like these discussions haven’t come up for the last ten years.

I would just like the whole SJW nonsense to keep out of mediums where we try to escape from it.

Ah! The true reason comes out!

 

[Rhubarb]

That’s not what I’m telling you, no.

I think another poster put it best - the characters are playersexual. If you play a straight character, then as far as you know, everyone’s straight. Unless you’re flirting with other characters to trick them. That’s rude. In the context of the story, I mean.

“Trying to normalize” isn’t the same thing as “creating a story that everyone can connect with”. Just because you -can- romance a dude as a dude, doesn’t mean you -should- or are -compelled- to do so. We all get it, you don’t approve of homosexuality. So don’t play a homosexual. But that shouldn’t stop some gay guy from getting to play the game and find a story that hits them closer to home. You’re welcome to your religious conviction. But I’m not compelled by them.

Like it or not, there’s gonna be gay people. So play the game as the straight dude you wanna be. And leave it at that. The gay people are going to play the game they want. And everything in between.

 

[Paddy1989]

I’m not sure how you can quote posts like that lol so i’ll reply to all your points. Your first two points referred to dragon age, this is a game i haven’t played and with Fallout i agree it isn’t distracting but that is mainly because it is done in a discreet manner so as to not shove it in the players faces who disagree with it. In Odyssey you can’t escape it. Also i’m not asking them to accurately portray sex in ancient Greece, my point was the obsession was homosexual behavior in this game more than any other i believe is based on the fact that in ancient Greece homosexual acts were practiced by some individuals, they have took this aspect and blown it out of proportion to normalize these relations.

As for LBGT players who play this game, yes that is obviously whom this game is geared towards but what about the millions of Christians, Muslims and other religious players, must they be forced to endure a game where these relations are normalized, i suppose when SJW mean inclusive they mean inclusive to just those who agree with them. Also that has been my true reason all along, i haven’t hidden it. Gender indifference, normalization of sexual orientations to the point that homosexuality is ridiculously to the point of being over emphasized in being 50/50 of society in the game. How can anyone relate to that world, even those with same sex attraction, surely they have got to see it’s all a bit over the top. Wouldn’t it nice to be able to explore a game world without the developer thinking how to keep the other 60 so called genders happy???

 

[Paddy1989]

Not true, perhaps you haven’t played Assassins creed odyssey but you get hit on by the same sex and witness same sex attractions of npc’s with each other many times throughout the game. I have never seen it so over the top like this before which as i said it’s distracting. I get it, the developers want to create a world where homosexual acts happen just as often as straight acts but sorry thats just not relateable in anyway way and i feel these elements are increasing in video games just as social issues like gender indifference and normalization of LBGT is pushed forward.

 

[Rhubarb]

Straight people get hit on by gay people sometimes. It happens.

The developers want to see a world where gay folk can exist and be comfortable, like everyone else can.

I’m sorry that gayness existing makes you uncomfortable. I’m not sure the developers are sorry, though.

Not every story is about you and your experiences.

Though I agree, across all media, social issues are opening up and being explored. You are well within your right to not like it, don’t get me wrong. But as a straight white man, I’m glad that stories are opening up to not-straight not-white not-men. There’s been enough about me, it’s okay to share the spotlight a little.

It sounds like this game isn’t for you. That’s okay. There’s lots of games I don’t like either. We can’t win them all.

It would be one thing if the thrust of the critique was “the thing does X and I don’t like it.” but I’m getting a “the thing does X, I don’t like it, so it shouldn’t do X”. Different strokes for different folks, my friend.

 

[Paddy1989]

The developers created a world where nearly everyone is bisexual, what is the point of that? I can’t see why they would do this other than to make a statement don’t you? On the one hand you say its player sexual however as i pointed out when it’s forced upon you by other NPC’s through them hitting on you or each other you then say they are merely trying to create a world where those with same sex attractions can be comfortable. That may be the case but why so over the top and it’s not just the bisexual aspect it’s the fact that male and females are represented in this game as being completely interchangeable.

Women have all the attributes as their male counterparts regardless of their physical attributes but they don’t seem to have many feminine attributes which is strange, kassandra has more testosterone than a WWE wrestler and those guys inject the stuff for a living, is that because playing as a woman in this era would be boring? If so why include them as reskinned male characters, just so the developers can look trendy and inclusive when in reality they do women a great disservice by misrepresenting them

 

[Rhubarb]

I don’t understand why letting women have fun with this is so threatening to you. It’s a game. A game. It’s not an exploration of the era. It’s a game where you run around and kill people, and be a hero or villain depending on how you play.

I would guess because women like to be awesome bad&ss heroes too, sometimes. As someone with authentic GamerGirl® pals, I can assure you they like to play the action hero just as much as I do. Video games aren’t just for boys. I’m sorry that letting other people be the star of their story offends you so greatly. I don’t know what else to say except, as I said, it’s not always about us. There’s plenty of evidence that show representations of not-straight and/or not-white and/or not-men in media is a positive thing in the lives of such people. And like one of my best friends will say, she’s just glad she can play a character that looks like herself and doesn’t cripple her play style.

To the rest, I’ve already spoken. You’re free to think it over the top and ridiculous. Nothing I’m going to say can change your mind on that score. I don’t think the developers are going to lose much sleep over certain-idea-ed people being upset over these choices in their silly virtual land of make-believe.

I promise you, they’re concerned about moving units, not ideas. Every design aspect in the game was chosen because some market research shows it’ll sell more units. They don’t care who you choose to take to bed, I promise.

 

[ZMystiCat]

I’m not sure how you can quote posts like that lol so i’ll reply to all your points.

If you highlight text in someone’s post, a “Quote” button will pop up, and it will insert the highlighted content as quote. Just make sure that the cursor is where you want the quote to be.

my point was the obsession was homosexual behavior in this game more than any other

We have games where some LGBT issue is main driver of the story. I doubt the game is as in your face about it as those.

i believe is based on the fact that in ancient Greece homosexual acts were practiced by some individuals, they have took this aspect and blown it out of proportion to normalize these relations.

It’s an action game with RPG elements in a series known for playing loose with history and following action RPG tropes in its design. It’s everyone else making a big deal out of it doing things Bioware was doing ten years ago.

As for LBGT players who play this game, yes that is obviously whom this game is geared towards

They’re included. It’s not geared towards them, and the relationship can be heterosexual if you want. No one plays a Bioware or Bethesda game and thinks it is obviously geared towards gays. Again, people are just going crazy because Assassin’s Creed finally did something those companies already did multiple times by now.

but what about the millions of Christians, Muslims and other religious players

They can live out their morality in the game, minus the mandated killing. That’s possible.

Gender indifference

You mean RPG tropes that simply let you pick a gender because you might rather play a woman?

normalization of sexual orientations to the point that homosexuality is ridiculously to the point of being over emphasized in being 50/50 of society in the game. How can anyone relate to that world

I’d imagine the same way that they relate to a world with elves and orcs.

Wouldn’t it nice to be able to explore a game world without the developer thinking how to keep the other 60 so called genders happy???

As far as I’m aware, this game only has two genders and two gender options for romances.

I have never seen it so over the top like this before which as i said it’s distracting.

Bioware has been doing this for ten years. For some reason, though, I don’t remember anyone fussing about it when Dragon Age: Origins did it. It also happens to be among the best written games in the last decade.

 

[Paddy1989]

Wouldn’t it have been nice to play as a woman rather than a reskinned male? Perhaps we could play as a character that uses her strengths to her advantage such as playing the damsel in distress to lure others to under estimate her which she can then turn around to her advantage. Or she could easily sneak into heavily guarded areas taking on a role noone around her would see as threatening. It would allow for a different and more believable experience than the testosterone filled super strong maniac we have currently. It would also allow for more stealth and strategic attacks. Instead Alexios and Kassandra are completely interchangeable aswell as the mercenaries regardless of their physical attributes. Tell me would it make sense to give orcs and humans the same physical strengths when their physical attributes are so obvious?

 

[Rhubarb]

No, I don’t think it’s nice to pigeon-hole women into having to play the damsel in distress, or Bugs-Bunny-yoo-hoo-pull-up-the-skirt to get things done. The game offers 3 skill trees to pick from. So play the lady as the stealthy assassin, or archer-y hunter tree for strategic or stealth attacks if that’s what floats your boat. And don’t do the things that doesn’t float your boat. Nobody wants to be forced to play stereotypes of themselves. Why rain on their parade? If someone wants to play a brawny amazon, what’s it to you? It’s not like that archetype is new in terms of fiction. We’ve seen that character in works for thousands of years. It’s a silly game about fighting people with bows and swords.

“But muh realism!” Well. This game doesn’t trade in realism, or making sense, or believability. The combat scene you play out as either character are ridiculous and unrealistic, for men and women. Does the bar fight in Road House trigger your verisimilitude when he gets punched in the face twenty times and keeps on ticking? Because that’s not going to happen in any believable way. In the game, you’re going to get chopped up, bludgeoned, sliced, stabbed, burnt, and fall from great heights in terribly unrealistic ways. It’s a fantasy. It seems your worry about believability is rather narrow.

Don’t you think a girl or woman should be able to buy a game. And say “I want to be an awesome fighter!” and enjoy their game? As the consumer, shouldn’t that option be available to them?