Assassin's Creed Odyssey: Inclusive Revisionism

[ZMystiCat]

At least it’s not as bad as the Witcher series…

I always wonder what the writing meetings for those games must be like. Like has anyone ever raised their hand and said “We sound like sexually depraved fifteen year olds on Reddit”?

Mix that with the established “first civilization” mythos

Honestly, once Assassin’s Creed 2 introduced the first civilization, I lost all interest in the series’ story. I still like the story of individual games, but it’s hard for me to enjoy the sci-fi elements after that.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I always wonder what the writing meetings for those games must be like. Like has anyone ever raised their hand and said “We sound like sexually depraved fifteen year olds on Reddit”?

Yeah… imagine how bad it must be for the animators. Like… I have to animate this sex scene, or I lose my job…

Honestly, once Assassin’s Creed 2 introduced the first civilization, I lost all interest in the series’ story. I still like the story of individual games, but it’s hard for me to enjoy the sci-fi elements after that.

They did introduce it in the first game, but definitly expanded on it in teh subsequent games. I really like how they’ve been handling it in Odyssey, plus
Super Duper Spoilers
you find Atlantis, which is frikin awesome.
It’s certainly not for everyone, but I’m enjoying it in this one, and I haven’t played a game in the series since I got about four hours into ACIII and couldn’t take it anymore.

 

[edwest]

Yeah… “sexually depraved fifteen year olds on Reddit.” That sounds right.

 

[ZMystiCat]

They did introduce it in the first game, but definitly expanded on it in teh subsequent games.

I don’t remember them from the first game. Maybe I missed the hints.

I haven’t played a game in the series since I got about four hours into ACIII and couldn’t take it anymore.

The hard part for me with AC is that I never feel like completing a game, but I love playing them. The only two I managed to see to completion were the first two, but both were a pain to push through. AC3 is the closest I came afterwards, but even then, the final chase was so poorly done that I couldn’t find the motivation to bother. By now I can’t even get close to the end.

Then again, that seems to be a major problem with me and games lately. I know I can get through massive games, but they generally need some fantastic writing, which Assassin’s Creed has never had for me.

 

[Paddy1989]

About your comment about fantasy. The point you made was the point I have been trying to explain the entire time lol. Fantasy is worlds created by it’s author where as you say dreams come alive. Where I’m so immersed in this world I can imagine living there, Exactly. Like all worlds we create especially with the most immersive there are laws to it, laws of physics, if there is magic in this world then we expect there to be laws of magic and for it to be rationally understood just as laws in this universe are. Therefore it is relateable to us and needs to make sense within the laws by which it is made by it’s author.

As I said this is why people will debate on the Marvel universe or star wars universe, they may get into discussions about how unlikely or likely certain events might be within the limitations of these universes. What I find distressing when I complain about SJW promoting gender indifference and the equalization of sexual orientations is they say well since it’s fiction it doesn’t need to make sense. If you played Assassins creed and a giant pink elephant popped into existence in your game world killing you for no reason with no rationality behind within the limitations of this universe would your response merely be that’s it just fiction so doesn’t need to make sense?

That’s my point about inserting social issues that make no sense in any world never mind the world they created.

 

[Paddy1989]

The game wasn’t intended to be social commentary?? You can’t pretend to be this naive when Even you admitted above the reasons for the SJW elements being added was to appeal to a certain audience

 

[Paddy1989]

There is alot of good about this game which is why I’m disappointed with having the SJW stuff rammed down my throat as it’s everywhere in this game. I certainly preferred the witcher series over this however. There is no comparison. The witcher was original, odyssey is a game that borrows the best elements from other games and combines them into one. While this makes it a great playing game, it means there is also nothing groundbreaking here. Even the AI is identical

 

[Paddy1989]

Bingo mate, I agree fully, these elements are NOT thrown into these worlds by accident. They are placed there to normalize them so as the player immerses themselves in these worlds they are essentially immersed in a world where these social issues are normalized. One would have to be naive to think this wouldn’t have an affect on people especially the young.

 

[jesucated]

What I find distressing when I complain about SJW promoting gender indifference and the equalization of sexual orientations is they say well since it’s fiction it doesn’t need to make sense.

Are you saying things don’t make sense or that they don’t make sense to you? I don’t find the choices made by the game designers to be the issue you find them to be. I don’t find them inconsistent with the rest of the fantasy. I don’t find myself pulled out of the game world in any way.

One of the keywords in what you said is “complain.“ Your posts sound a whole lot more like a complaint things aren’t the way you want them to be than it does it a critique of a fantasy world. There’s a difference between these two things and that difference is important. Why are you so intent on this particular game catering to your needs and your worldview?

 

[ZMystiCat]

The point you made was the point I have been trying to explain the entire time lol.

Then I’m not sure why you keep making the point that it has to be believable within the context of our world. If the developers have clearly established that all these characters are romanceable regardless of your gender selection at the start, just go with it. Sure, you could go the more standard Bioware route (not counting Dragon Age 2) where certain characters are and aren’t available depending on race and gender selection, but I don’t see how going the universally romanceable route akin to Dragon Age 2 or Fallout 4 is immersion breaking. It’s just their decision of how to write the romanceable characters, and that’s a pretty well-established rule for the game’s world.

And yes, I get that that means that you’ll have same-sex advances from some characters, but it takes some pretty skilled writers to not do that when trying to signify that that character is romanceable.

If you played Assassins creed and a giant pink elephant popped into existence in your game world killing you for no reason with no rationality behind within the limitations of this universe would your response merely be that’s it just fiction so doesn’t need to make sense?

You’re making a false equivalency by comparing a clearly established aspect of the world, that these characters are bisexual (or playersexual), to one that’s very clearly not well-established. In comparison, a game like Saints Row IV, which also allows you to “romance” anyone regardless of gender selection, could have dropped pink elephants in as enemies and no one would care. That’s because both are well-established rules the game worlds use, unlike AC:Odyssey where only one of them is. (Note: Saints Row IV doesn’t have pink elephants that I can remember, but it fits the whacky nature of the world.)

That’s my point about inserting social issues that make no sense in any world never mind the world they created.

There are some valid criticisms to be made against this style of writing romances. However, I think you’re grasping at straws to keep bringing up believability and social commentary.

I certainly preferred the witcher series over this however.

I don’t see how The Witcher series is any better than this. That series’ treatment of sex is about as far away from the Catholic view as you can get.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I think I agree with this; it’s never been particularly accurate with history.

 

[John24]

I looked this game up on YouTube. It’s pretty telling that, in a game where you fight the Minotaur and other mythological creatures and fly around on Icarus wings, the “historically accurate” critics are more upset about women and people of color being included.

 

[edwest]

It’s true. I monitor the media on a regular basis and on my own time. The patterns exist. Just like turning on a TV show that has been running for years and they drop in a gay character as if it’s always been like that. It hasn’t. There is an LGBT group that rates Hollywood on how “inclusive/LGBT affirming” they are, every year.

 

[Paddy1989]

The game doesn’t have to be based upon the laws and rules of our own world nor did i imply that, i said all fantasy has to be relateable but that is something i will discuss next as it’s not hitting home, my point is that the entire universe of assassins creed has transformed from what it used to be and no longer is consistent with it’s own ethos. It would be like the Star wars universe adding in cartoon characters completely moving away from the universe that was created. Assassins creed was created to be a historical/fictional game set in where humanity finds out it’s creators were intelligent Alien beings, there was nothing supernatural at all about this game, no magic, monsters etc as the alien beings and their technology are essentially pseudo science for the purpose of the game.

The historical periods were done with limitations to make it enjoyable but there was always that historical aspect there, even the historical events were accurate, the game just portrayed them in such a way to make the Assassins involved. The developers went to great lengths to recreate historical regions and have the people act much of the same way they may have done in the times up to a point of course. The game now puts you in the role of a demigod with over powered special abilities that has truly turned it into a arcade like experience not to mention that monsters are now present adding in a supernatural element. The historical aspect is gone completely and there is now no feeling like your playing in the era that is meant to be recreated but a SJW version of it where gender is interchangeable and everyone is attracted to everyone regardless of sex. It’s a new universe, as i said a SJW paradise with supernatural elements included. I think your being very naive not to see the intentions of the developers in the name of inclusiveness was to scrap the original universe of assassins creed and create a new one that includes LBGT and gender indifference, i mean they mention it at the beginning of the game.

There are many good elements added in such as the RPG element but there are better RPGs out there, much better. As for the Witcher, the elements you mention are silly i agree, the over sexualization of women in the game at times is certainly distracting but nowhere near as bad as this game. The Witcher is a darker game that tries too hard to be dark if you know what i mean, there isn’t much good at all in the world and very few characters in the game are good. However the witcher is a game that fits into the universe it’s author created, if it added elements that didn’t make sense within it’s own ethos there would be an uproar. Is this making sense? I mean fiction yes means it isn’t real of course but the worlds these authors create have their own established laws and physics based around the ethos of the game. Assassins creed already had an established ethos, it’s changed, it’s a new universe with it’s own laws to suit a specific crowd, SJW

 

[Paddy1989]

They are bothered because it never used to be a game with magic or even supernatural elements or even SJW elements for that matter, it was a historical game with a tseudo science twist to it to create conspiracies out of some of the most dramatic periods in history. This was done so the developers could allow the player to live during these periods and connect with some of the most impactful people in the world at that time and throughout history such as emperors, kings, philosophers etc and link these periods of history up to a bigger conspiracy that affects all of mankind. The fact it has changed it’s own universe just like that and for these SJW elements to be so in your face is ridiculous and it’s sad that these social issues that are getting debated in universities to the point where you can’t even name someones gender now without being classed as a bigot is making people edgy whenever they see it pushed in popular media.

 

[Paddy1989]

They are certainly inconsistent with the Assassins creed universe which was originally designed to be a historical/fictional game, not a magical fantasy game. Even origins didn’t include any of these elements. This is the ONLY game that has included elements that are so outside the Assassins creed universe it’s just got ridiculous. Playing in Ptolemy Egypt obviously took some liberties to not get too dark but at least it didn’t include supernatural elements or SJW elements, as far as i know that was reserved only for a DLC which is outside the main story and universe and added in for mindless fun as a side game, similar to Far Cry’s DLC. You got the gist of what the relationship was like between the local Egyptians and Greek colonists, how they viewed and treated each other, the relationship between the rulers at the time etc and how all this linked up to the Alien civilization.

This new title with it’s inclusion of special abilities that has the player moving around like lighting, monsters, and most of all pushing through current social trends of gender indifference and the idea the the equalizing of sexual orientations by making everyone bisexual is just ridiculous, it’s obvious the developers sat around the table and thought how can we make this game more trendy, i know lets attach ourselves to the loudest minority in the entertainment world, the SJW and we can appear cool and hip and get more sales. Because of that for the first time there is little to no historical elements in Assassins creed, a few regions and characters but thats it, the people in NO way at all this time resemble even a small bit of the ancient Greeks but rather mirror the attitudes of many people in popular culture who push through these issues that is leaving young people confused as to what they are gender wise and sexually

I have to ask though does a bisexual world and gender indifference society make sense to you?

 

[Paddy1989]

To pretty much sum up and simply the point i’m making, is it a coincidence that current controversial social trends are making it into popular media especially the gaming industry, one would have to be very naive to think so. Many people in the entertainment industry are attaching themselves to these social trends and are inserting these elements into game worlds that previously offered an escape to this nonsense and while some developers have done it before i believe because it is getting more common it is getting much harder to escape. One cannot even go back even 2500bc in a video game and not have these elements thrown in your face. Do they not know that others worlds existed, other ideologies etc or are they too offended by them that they put a SJW filter on ALL media to the point we can’t escape it.

 

[ZMystiCat]

assassins creed has transformed from what it used to be and no longer is consistent with it’s own ethos

I would agree, but that started taking shape arguably as far back as the second game. By Black Flag, it was already barely recognizable from what the first game was.

 

[edwest]

People don’t like socio-political issues shoved in their faces or talked about endlessly. Let games be games without the political hype. Again, if anyone finds something objectionable then dump the game. Warn others. This has got to stop.

 

[edwest]

“trendy” is the wrong word. The developers sat around the table and got a lecture about “inclusiveness” or were otherwise led to believe that adding gender/sexual references was to be expected. Warn others.