Assumption of st. Mary

[Jimmy_B]

There must be alot of people whom hate thier mothers - The King of Kings would not have a place for His mother - Let alone bride of The Holy Spirit

Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee

 

[freedomwriter]

freedomwriter;6987125:

Did you read Lev 12:6-8 Bringing a sacrifice was for a sin offering. If Mary was sinless then why go to the temple and offer a sacrifice.

As for Luke 1 They were believers in God but that does not mean that they had no sin in theirs lives. We are all born with original sin. As believers in Christ we are all justified in His eyes.[/quo

What exactly is a born again Catholic? It seems it is not actually Catholic, is that true?

Being a born again Catholic means that i am a former catholic who has given his life to Jesus Christ. I don’t go by the words of the vatican, pope or councils. I just go by the written Word of God.

[/quote]

 

[rinnie]

How about Moses and Elijah @ the Transfiguration? Elijah was taken up… Moses was buried according to scripture. Both standing with Jesus. Not spirits But Moses and Elijah,

Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD,

Deu 34:6 and he buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-pe’or; but no man knows the place of his burial to this day.

Deu 34:7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died; his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Yes Love I have stated it myself I believe earlier in the post. But it does not want to be addressed! Wonder why?

• Peter was going to build them a tent?*

Mar 9:3 and his garments became glistening, intensely white, as no fuller on earth could bleach them.

Mar 9:4 And there appeared to them Eli’jah with Moses; and they were talking to Jesus.

Mar 9:5 And Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli’jah.”

Mar 9:6 For he did not know what to say, for they were exceedingly afraid.

God bless,
John

 

[rinnie]

rschermer2;7013922:

Being a born again Catholic means that i am a former catholic who has given his life to Jesus Christ. I don’t go by the words of the vatican, pope or councils. I just go by the written Word of God.

If you are a born again Catholic you would be re-born into the faith would you not. If someone leaves the Catholic faith they are called a fallen Catholic not reborn.

We as Catholic’s are reborn in the faith many times a year. One time I am sure of is at Easter when we reNEW our Baptisim Promises. That would be the only way I could see a re–born Catholic. I have really never heard of a RE-BORN Catholic. But either way to be re-born in the faith would be to re-new oneself in it, not fall from it.

That would be like a atheist calling themself a reborn Christian would it not? Because they reject the Christian faith do you not agree? And do you not reject the Catholic faith, have you not fell from it?

And I pray that you are not implying by your statement that Catholic’s do not give their life to Christ. Especially our wonderful Pope, Bishops, Priests who have given up their life to do the work of Christ!

 

[freedomwriter]

freedomwriter;7015733:

If you are a born again Catholic you would be re-born into the faith would you not. If someone leaves the Catholic faith they are called a fallen Catholic not reborn.

We as Catholic’s are reborn in the faith many times a year. One time I am sure of is at Easter when we reNEW our Baptisim Promises. That would be the only way I could see a re–born Catholic. I have really never heard of a RE-BORN Catholic. But either way to be re-born in the faith would be to re-new oneself in it, not fall from it.

That would be like a atheist calling themself a reborn Christian would it not? Because they reject the Christian faith do you not agree? And do you not reject the Catholic faith, have you not fell from it?

And I pray that you are not implying by your statement that Catholic’s do not give their life to Christ. Especially our wonderful Pope, Bishops, Priests who have given up their life to do the work of Christ!

I am a born again Christian. I left the catholic faith over 10yrs ago and do not regret leaving.
As far as your pope bishop and priests giving their lives to Christ that is between them and the Lord.

 

[Todd520]

freedomwriter;7015733:

And I pray that you are not implying by your statement that Catholic’s do not give their life to Christ. Especially our wonderful Pope, Bishops, Priests who have given up their life to do the work of Christ!

Rinnie,
In LDS, people are encouraged to develop their own light and not just bask in the **reflected light **of those around them, of greater faith and devotion. This is especially important with teenagers who have parents of strong faith.

I am always concerned when I see Catholics raise up their members that have dedicated their life to Christ, as if it is their own accomplishment. Priests, Bishops & Nuns deserve immense respect for what they do, but mature Catholics should not be basking in their reflected light, and just doing their 1hr of Mass per week.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Role models are Role models, nothing wrong with that. Everyone has individuals that they admire, and look up to, as do you. At some point I would hope we “all” strive to be better than ourselves.

Prejudiced thinking placing Catholics in the catagory you have, wouldn’t you think? I truly am sorry if you’ve had a experience which left a bad taste in your mouth.

In all Faiths followers are encouraged to develope their own devotion. Nor sure how you arrive at the conclusion LDS differs in this area? More bias thinking I presume.

I suspect, should LDS still be around in a few thousand years? They may well have many leaders of the past they also view in a spirit of reverence. Though I may be wrong.

God Bless, GT

 

[Rocky]

Did you read Lev 12:6-8 Bringing a sacrifice was for a sin offering. If Mary was sinless then why go to the temple and offer a sacrifice.

As for Luke 1 They were believers in God but that does not mean that they had no sin in theirs lives. We are all born with original sin. As believers in Christ we are all justified in His eyes.

Leviticus Chapter 12: The LORD said to Moses, Tell the Israelites: When a woman has conceived and gives birth to a boy, she shall be unclean for seven days with the same uncleanness as at her menstrual period. On the eighth day, the flesh of the boy’s foreskin shall be circumcised, and then she shal spend thirty-three days more in becoming purified of her blood ; she shall not touch anything sacred nor enter the sanctuaary till the days of her purification are fulfilled. If she gives birth to a girl, for fourteen days… **When the days of her purification **for a son or daughter are fulfilled, she shall bring to the priest at the entrance of the meeting tent a yearling lamb for a holocaust and a pigeon or a turtledove for a sin offering… The priest will make atonement for her, and thus she will again be clean."

Tell me, do you believe that a woman’s menstrual cycle is defling and sinful as the Israelites did? You are stretching here to say because Mary fulfilled the law she must have been in sin. Her own son, Jesus followed her example when He went to John for baptism even though He had no sin but did it in order to fulfill the law.

 

[david_ruiz]

Dave you said:

None of the preceding addressed the questions I asked:

These P churches claim that the holy bible is the Christians final authority for resolving doctrinal conflicts, which begs the question: why are these pastors teaching their flock? They should simply tell them to defer to their bibles as opposed to the pastor from the pulpit - yes no?

Dave, do you believe that the HS is forever guiding Jesus’ established church into all truth? That’s what the bible tells us.

If the CC is not the church founded by God on Pentecost in Jerusalem circa AD 33 then that would be a claim that the CC could not back up -agreed? But, if the CC is…then the HS is guiding the CC into all truth.

Your point being is that the bible via individual interpretation is the Christians final authority as opposed to any church leadership teaching authoritatively?

Is Sola scriptura the very reason why there is so much division in the protestant world, if not then what caused it? Please don’t say sin for that is a foregone conclusion.

How do you know that the bible is the pure word of God, untainted and unaltered by the CC that supposedly gave us altered, tainted and spurious tradition? Prove to me that the CC didn’t add impurities to the word of God (written tradition) - considering the fact that they supposedly added impurities elsewhere eg oral tradition. You can’t have it both ways Dave.

Howdy here we go again. First question -NO… Second question:Yes, without the "established ". Yes He guides HIS church… Third question :NO, the way you state it. Yes ,if you mean divinely revealed to the saint… Fourth question:Yes , SE causes, leads to division.Have admitted this a thousand times ,now 1001. I would also say that Scripture also causes division, as does every Word of God . SE is in good company. The Church also causes division whenever she proclaims truth.etc.etc…Fifth question:God told me that the bible ,the church ,tradition are right when they say the Bible is pure. God told me that Scripture ,Church ,tradition are right when they call out false tradition ,dogma etc. Can not prove CC did not add impurities to bible , other than God said He would weed it out (just as CC weeded out other bad stuff).I do not think the same promise is given to "traditions " or oral verbiage , not eventually backed up in writing.Yes it can be both ways (remember falling from grace , that you agree upon for individuals. Do you not agree that some protestant churches have fallen from grace and not recovered(think Jonestown or Mormons or JW’s).??? So if it can happen to a protestant church/denomination why not mine , or yours ? Answered five asked you two .Thanks

 

[david_ruiz]

Dave, do you defer to the authority of your church leadership, doctrinally speaking?

In terms of deciding doctrine -no. In terms of being fed ,and being responsible to for my walk,and a place for giftings to be used -yes.

 

[david_ruiz]

Dave, this is a bit off topic but let’s assume that you are right and I am wrong. Let’s assume that the inspired word of God (bible alone) - is the sole source of truth and the Christians only authority regarding faith and morals, and everything and anything outside the purview of sacred scripture is extraneous at best.

With that said, surely God left the world with an inspired interpreter for His inspired word.

Can you please identify the inspired interpreter of the inspired word of God?

God Himself.Job 32:8"-But there is a spirit in a man, and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.".There are subsequent subdivisions of Light -bearers , but God is the originator of them all."them "in the above scripture is you and me and anyone who is thirsty .(not secluded to clergy only)

 

[Jimmy_B]

Job 32:1-22

1 Then the three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
2 1 But the anger of Elihu, son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, was kindled. He was angry with Job for considering himself rather than God to be in the right.
3 He was angry also with the three friends because they had not found a good answer and had not condemned Job.
4 But since these men were older than he, Elihu bided his time before addressing Job.
5 When, however, Elihu saw that there was no reply in the mouths of the three men, his wrath was inflamed.
6 So Elihu, son of Barachel the Buzite, spoke out and said: I am young and you are very old; therefore I held back and was afraid to declare to you my knowledge.
7 Days should speak, I thought, and many years teach wisdom!
**8 **But it is a spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding. **
9 It is not those of many days who are wise, nor the aged who understand the right.
10 Therefore I say, hearken to me; let me too set forth my knowledge!
11 Behold, I have waited for your discourses, and have given ear to your arguments.
12 Yes, I followed you attentively as you searched out what to say; And behold, there is none who has convicted Job, not one of you who could refute his statements.
13 2 Yet do not say, “We have met wisdom. God may vanquish him but not man!”
14 For had he addressed his words to me, I should not then have answered him as you have done.
15 They are dismayed, they make no more reply; words fail them. **
16 Must I wait? Now that they speak no more, and have ceased to make reply,
17 I too will speak my part; I also will show my knowledge!
18 For I am full of matters to utter; the spirit within me compels me.
19 Like a new wineskin with wine under pressure, my bosom is ready to burst.
20 Let me speak and obtain relief; let me open my lips, and make reply.
21 I would not be partial to anyone, nor give flattering titles to any.
22 For I know nought of flattery; if I did, my Maker would soon take me away.

**Gifts of the Spirit **

Once the Chosen People begin to think about the kind of life the spirit brings they focus on the gifts or charisms the spirit gives to individuals, whether leaders (Numbers 11:24-30), judges (Judges 3:10; 6:4; 11:29; 13:25), kings (1 Samuel 11:6; 16:13), wise people (Job 32:8; Proverbs 1:23), craftspeople (Exodus 31:3) and prophets (1 Samuel 11:6; Micah 3:8; Ezekiel 2:2).
So the spirit is a force that has unique effects on people, transforming them, challenging them to exceptional deeds, urging them to act prophetically, strengthening them in their vocation, sanctifying them, giving them wisdom and discernment.
Although the first references to the spirit in the Old Testament are simple, they increase in importance and the spirit’s presence is seen as a sign of God’s constant action in the world.

 

[joe370]

Dave, you said:

God Himself.Job 32:8"-But there is a spirit in a man, and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.".There are subsequent subdivisions of Light -bearers , but God is the originator of them all."them "in the above scripture is you and me and anyone who is thirsty .(not secluded to clergy only

Am I to assume that your answer is no? Let’s try it one more time and please be direct; I would really appreciate it:

Dave, again, this is a bit off topic but let’s assume that you are right and I am wrong. Let’s assume that the inspired word of God (bible alone) - is the sole source of truth and the Christians only authority regarding faith and morals, and everything and anything outside the purview of sacred scripture is extraneous at best.

With that said, surely God left the world with an **inspired interpreter for His inspired word - yes or no? **

Can you please identify the inspired interpreter of the inspired word of God and then maybe we can find the answer to the question about the AOM?

Thanks again…

 

[joe370]

Dave, clearly we will never see eye to eye but that’s cool. 2 more questions. You said:

So if it can happen to a protestant church/denomination why not mine , or yours

1. Could it happen to the church founded by Jesus Christ?
2. Do you consider your church to be the church founded by Jesus Christ?

Just yes or no would be fine to each question - thanks Dave.

 

[david_ruiz]

Jimmy_B:
Thank-you ,but what bible translation are you reading ? I prefer the The King James version ,which has a bigger foundation of manuscripts to help in translating. It says something totally different,I believe .We are spiritual beings , but still- born because of original sin .When we are born again , that spirit is revived (Could be The Breath of God) . I would say then that the spirit in me makes it possible for the Father to communicate and enlighten me. My spirit does not have it with in itself. The King James makes it very clear God is inspiring us with understanding. (this spirit is not a force or an it).Thanks again.Your responses are very intriguing.

 

[david_ruiz]

Dave, you said:

Am I to assume that your answer is no? Let’s try it one more time and please be direct; I would really appreciate it:

Dave, again, this is a bit off topic but let’s assume that you are right and I am wrong. Let’s assume that the inspired word of God (bible alone) - is the sole source of truth and the Christians only authority regarding faith and morals, and everything and anything outside the purview of sacred scripture is extraneous at best.

With that said, surely God left the world with an **inspired interpreter for His inspired word - yes or no? **
an you please identify the inspired interpreter of the inspired word of God and then maybe we can find the answer to the question about the AOM?

Thanks again…

Sorry ,I thought I answered your question - who interprets ? I said God. I guess that would be a yes the way you proposed it to me again .I think you may be referring to the second part of my answer, still being a yes , that other than God , there are other bearers of God’s interpretation . Again , God is the author of His Word . I suppose He knows the “interpretation” thereof. This is not a private matter. Is not God today alive and well on planet earth ? Indeed in our hearts ? Can not he “interpret” for you and me ,and anyone who knocks and seeks, as Elihu suggests in Job or as Jesus tells Peter how Peter came to know the" interpretation " of things , that Jesus was the Messiah ? Indeed it was not a church , nor tradition , nor even scripture that made the light go on inside Peter . It was the Father Himself , that unravelled everything (church ,tradition,scripture) for Peter , and for anyone who has ever been born again. Again , the interpreter is God ,the Holy Spirit ,Jesus the Word .
Yes,yes yes.

 

[david_ruiz]

Dave, clearly we will never see eye to eye but that’s cool. 2 more questions. You said:

1. Could it happen to the church founded by Jesus Christ?
2. Do you consider your church to be the church founded by Jesus Christ?

Just yes or no would be fine to each question - thanks Dave.

No to question one and two .Christ does not have a "the "church .The church is universal -that is why the term catholic arose .I believe my faith is catholic ,just not under Rome ,but under my pastor in Rochester, who is under others etc. If you drop out the "the " I would answer yes to both questions . Indeed a church could lose it’s way, and all churches who proclaim His truth are founded by Him.

 

[joe370]

Thank-you ,but what bible translation are you reading ? I prefer the The King James version ,which has a bigger foundation of manuscripts to help in translating. It says something totally different,I believe .We are spiritual beings , but still- born because of original sin .When we are born again , that spirit is revived (Could be The Breath of God) . I would say then that the spirit in me makes it possible for the Father to communicate and enlighten me. My spirit does not have it with in itself. The King James makes it very clear God is inspiring us with understanding. (this spirit is not a force or an it).Thanks again.Your responses are very intriguing.

David, was this post for me?

 

[joe370]

No to question one and two…

No to both questions; got it.

1. Could it happen to the church founded by Jesus Christ? No
2. Do you consider your church to be the church founded by Jesus Christ? NO

.Christ does not have a "the "church .

 

[freedomwriter]

Leviticus Chapter 12: The LORD said to Moses, Tell the Israelites: When a woman has conceived and gives birth to a boy, she shall be unclean for seven days with the same uncleanness as at her menstrual period. On the eighth day, the flesh of the boy’s foreskin shall be circumcised, and then she shal spend thirty-three days more in becoming purified of her blood ; she shall not touch anything sacred nor enter the sanctuaary till the days of her purification are fulfilled. If she gives birth to a girl, for fourteen days… **When the days of her purification **for a son or daughter are fulfilled, she shall bring to the priest at the entrance of the meeting tent a yearling lamb for a holocaust and a pigeon or a turtledove for a sin offering… The priest will make atonement for her, and thus she will again be clean."

Tell me, do you believe that a woman’s menstrual cycle is defling and sinful as the Israelites did? You are stretching here to say because Mary fulfilled the law she must have been in sin. Her own son, Jesus followed her example when He went to John for baptism even though He had no sin but did it in order to fulfill the law.

Then he shall offer it before the Lord, and make atonement for her: This was a fairly standard sacrifice for atonement, holding the woman symbolically responsible for bringing another sinner into this world. The required sacrifice was the same for her who has borne a male or a female