Assurance of Salvation

[WoundedIcon]

I think the Council of Trent specified that no Christian can presume that they will certainly make it to Heaven unless promised such by a private revelation. That was their only exception.

 

[1ke]

I thought a few knowledgeable people might want to go over & weigh in on the discussion in a non-polemical way.

It is against forum rules to post links to other forums for the purpose of getting members on CAF to go over to the other site and enter a debate.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Statement of CAF policy on calls to “Board Swarm”.

Posts/threads that include a request/suggestion for other forum readers/members to visit someone else’s forum for the purposes of apologetics debate will be deleted/edited to remove the links.

In an effort to illuminate and explain the Catholic faith, CA makes every effort to provide our participants with a pleasant and informative place on the internet where Catholics and non-Catholics may gather.

It is our hope that respectful dialogue and discussion will lead to better faith understandings. And so in charity, we ask that our forums not be used for encouraging mass visits to other websites. In the past these kinds of efforts, although perhaps well intentioned, leave participants at other websites with negative impressions.

Your cooperation in helping promote these aims of faith exposition, hope for fruitful discussion and charity in implementation are sincerely appreciated.

Sincerely,
Your servant in Christ,

 

[roamingcatholic]

Sorry, my intention wasn’t to swarm the other site. It’s just that since I haven’t reconciled with the Church yet and don’t fully understand the nuances of Catholic soteriology, I didn’t feel adequate to the task of explaining the Catholic perspective & hoped others who were more theologically versed could explain their misunderstanding.

Tim

 

[Bookcat]

May I live looking forward to the Resurrection! In the Joy of Knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. Rejoicing in already beginning to know* true life* in him.

(Now could I turn away from Christ before I die…rejecting in effect the life he gave me in Faith and Baptism (and all the other ways) and die in choice? --yes such is a possibility. May I remain in Christ always!)

By the grace of God I intend to remain in Christ…a branch on his vine …to “abide in him” …to not be “cut off” (due to my own choice)…(John 15:5-6, and Romans 11:22).

And if in this life I should unhappily commit a mortal sin…I intend to call out to the Good Shepherd and go to those whom he has given the authority to absolve me…to be forgiven and returned to life (John 20:22-23). I pray that I may always remain in him and thus leave this life remaining in life (by his grace).

*We walk by *Faith not by sight (2 Cor 5:7)

and are saved in hope (see Romans 8:24)…and thus I have the great “certitude of hope”!

A real kind of assurance I have. A very real confidence. I do not though have “infallible” certitude. For example I do not know that I will in fact remain living in Christ and not betray him and die separated from him. And even now I could commit a mortal sin (Lord preserve me from this!). Indeed Jesus even said that not everyone who says to him “Lord Lord” will enter the kingdom of Heaven. (Matt 7:21)

But I have a great confidence in Christ my hope!

*I know in whom I have believed *(2 Tim 1:12)

My Faith and my hope and trust is in the Lord Jesus Christ! The Good Shepherd!

In Jesus of Nazareth is true life.

 

[Bookcat]

Pope Benedict XVI:

"Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).

Therefore, let us face our life with its joys and sorrows supported by these great sentiments that Paul offers to us. By having an experience of them we will realize how true are the words the Apostle himself wrote: “I know whom I have believed, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me”; in other words, until the Day (II Tm 1: 12) of our definitive meeting with Christ the Judge, Saviour of the world and our Saviour."

– November 2006

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html

---

(the above link also gets into Faith and Works in Paul …for more on Paul and Faith and Works:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html)

 

[fhansen]

An friend alerted me to an article by this title on an evangelical website that specifically mentions Catholic Answers and I thought a few knowledgeable people might want to go over & weigh in on the discussion in a non-polemical way.
(Edited to remove link as per CAF Policy)

Tim

We can have assurance without having 100% certainty, a certainty reserved to only God alone. It’s obvious from scripture that He judges us based on what we did with what we were given during the course of our lives. The Parable of the Talents offers insight here.The council of Trent denounced the “vain confidence” of the “heretics”. From session 6, chap 9:

**But though it is necessary to believe that sins neither are remitted nor ever have been remitted except gratuitously by divine mercy for Christ’s sake, yet it must not be said that sins are forgiven or have been forgiven to anyone who boasts of his confidence and certainty of the remission of his sins,[47] resting on that alone, though among heretics and schismatics this vain and ungodly confidence may be and in our troubled times indeed is found and preached with untiring fury against the Catholic Church.

Moreover, it must not be maintained, that they who are truly justified must needs, without any doubt whatever, convince themselves that they are justified, and that no one is absolved from sins and justified except he that believes with certainty that he is absolved and justified,[48] and that absolution and justification are effected by this faith alone, as if he who does not believe this, doubts the promises of God and the efficacy of the death and resurrection of Christ.

For as no pious person ought to doubt the mercy of God, the merit of Christ and the virtue and efficacy of the sacraments, so each one, when he considers himself and his own weakness and indisposition, may have fear and apprehension concerning his own grace, since no one can know with the certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error, that he has obtained the grace of God. **

 

[october_baby]

Hi, October baby,

We really can not judge intentions. His words, however, truly fall short if ‘converting Catholics’ is the goal. Seriously, it is beyond me how would think he could change anyone’s mind when all he has done is simply pour out his bag of ‘assorted verses’ that do not address the issue on those posts he decides to address, and ignores or dismisses the others. In my opinon, avoiding an issue has yet to win a debate in any area.

The snag comes in, I guess, with him knowing this - but being unable to do anything about it without rejecting his assorted false claims. My hope is that he will see this intellectual impotence for just what it is - ideas based on a bankrupt theosophy. The hallmark of the disciplined mind is going where the facts lead - and not sending the facts to some pre-determined destination.

The ancient Greeks knew about the evils of such mischief - and came up with a story to illustrate the point with a mythical bandit named Procrustes. He had his idea of reality firmly in mind - and when he came upon a victim (facts that did not agree with his view of reality) he would first rob it of anything of value - and then put the victim on a ‘bed’ that conformed to the bandit’s idea of reality. Victims (facts) that exceeded his deviated view of reality were made to fit - either they were cut to match - or stretched to fit - but in the end, the Procrustean Bed prevented genuine reality from presenting itself.

What remains is on these posts for all to see - a truly singular display of defeated arguments and failed opportunities to actually met our ideas head-on. But you know, I still think there is hope left! You see, he keeps coming back - never to engage… but to tell us how hard he is working or to extend pleasatries like ‘Happy Thanksgiving’, etc. He just can’t quite quit the thread - and I really see that as a positive sign. His arguments have been left to hemorrhage and I think this is recognized - painful as it is. Prayers are really in order, October Baby.

God bless

To all of the catholic posters, I have followed this thread from the beginning, and maybe I was wrong about Old Professor’s intent but the impression I got while reading the posts,
was that he was avoiding answering direct questions that were posed to him.(aside from
when he was doing personal things.) He also repeated the same arguments and bible verses. Also it appeared that he was denigrating Roman Catholic theology.
But I wanted it said, that I mean no ill will toward Old Professer and if I have offended anybody, I apologize. At any rate hope your holiday was joyful. And thank you for your
great defense of catholic theology.

 

[MidnightSun12]

I think the Council of Trent specified that no Christian can presume that they will certainly make it to Heaven unless promised such by a private revelation. That was their only exception.

I just wanted to add that there have been real life examples of this:

Sister Lucy recieved a promise from our Holy Mother that she would go to heaven when she died before seeing the vision of hell at fatima.

source: fatima.org/essentials/facts/1917appar.asp

Lucy describes the apparition in this way:

Then Our Lady said to us: ‘Do not be afraid. I will do you no harm.’

‘Where is Your Grace from?’ I asked Her.

‘I am of Heaven.’

‘What does Your Grace want of me?’

‘I have come to ask you to come here for six months in succession, on the 13th day, at this same hour. Later on, I will tell you who I am and what I want. Afterwards, I will return here yet a seventh time.’

‘Shall I go to Heaven too?’

‘Yes, you will.’

‘And Jacinta?’

‘Also.’

‘And Francisco?’

‘Also, but he will have to say many Rosaries.’

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Before I became Catholic in Easter of 2011 at age 53 i was Methodist for the rest of my life up to that point.

I was taught Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrew 10:26-32. I don’t know how anyone can read those passages and believe OSAS. Methodists don’t believe in OSAS–neither do Lutherans and Episcopalians and Weslyeans–even Free Will Baptists don’t believe it!

You really have to get FAR out there like most Baptists and Presbyterians to believe it.

In my journey to Catholicsm when I would go to a Protestant funeral i would wonder if the person went to heaven or not. I knew OSAS wasn’t true but I didn’t know how far you would have to “Backslide” to wind up going to Hell.

When I learned about mortal and venial sin and about purgatory for those who die in a state of grace but with venial sin or attachments the Catholic faith made 100% perfect sense to me.

OSAS is the EASYY way–in my opinion that is why the devil came up with it.

the Catholic way is HARD but it is also easy because we as Catholics have the sacraments.

The bottom line is no one gets to heaven without Jesus and no one enters heaven unless they are holy. OSAS lets people enter heaven with sin.

That is why ultimately it is false!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, October Baby,

Let me try to rephrase what I said - you may be totally right about linking objective behaviors to intent - but, we do not really know what the intent is and we are not in a position to judge something we honestly do not know.

In reading over OldProf’s posts and making an actual assessment of their content, it is obvious that he is simply addressing his own issues and not the ones presented by other posters. While unfortunate, I for one was (am) disappointed because I was (am) sincerely interested in a good debate on this topic, it is not surprising.

The heart of the matter is both simple and straight forward: Christ promised the Catholic Church would be guided by the Spirit to all Truth (John 16 - here is a link: veritasbible.com/drb/compare/haydock/John_16 ). The Church - for all of its short-comings in matters of politics, finance, geography, etc - is totally correct when it comes to defining doctrine and providing us with the Sacraments. We are able to follow Christ more closely because we are following the doctrines established by the Catholic Church. The Author of All Truth can not make a mistake.

Now, contrast this with every Protestant group - they were all founded by men on the traditions of men because their founders chose to break from the Catholic Church. By separating themselves from All Truth they have bound themselves to try and swim with a millstone around their necks. The evidence for this is to simply look at the arguments given to defend any of their teachings. The foundation for all Protestant argumentation is that they are right and the Catholic Church is wrong. They have established this ‘foundation’ with the twin heresies of ‘Sola Scriptura’ and ‘Private Interpretation’. So, whatever they think (or wish) is what the Bible says! And, the proof of this is look how often they have changed their own positions - and splintered in the process. The Anglicans are the latest - by the narrowest of margins, they voted to prohibit female bishops. And, now the government has jumped into the frey by accusing them of unlawful discrimination! But, this is the same group that approved the elevation of an actively homosexual bishop - and wondered why there was so much discord!

In my personal opinion, OldProf did his cause no service by ignoring or dismissing arguments that challenged the position held by those who proclaim ‘AoS’. By attempting a less then clear approach, he just dug his argument in deeper and put a basket over it - when the idea was to elevate the truth on a lamp stand, like the lamp that gives light to the entire house.(Matt 5 veritasbible.com/drb/compare/haydock/Matthew_5 )

The distortions presented by ‘AoS’ need to be addressed and refuted afresh - every time someone comes and proclaims that this is what Christ said. I think you’ve done a good job in this area - and let me encourage you to continue.

God bless

To all of the catholic posters, I have followed this thread from the beginning, and maybe I was wrong about Old Professor’s intent but the impression I got while reading the posts,
was that he was avoiding answering direct questions that were posed to him.(aside from
when he was doing personal things.) He also repeated the same arguments and bible verses. Also it appeared that he was denigrating Roman Catholic theology.
But I wanted it said, that I mean no ill will toward Old Professer and if I have offended anybody, I apologize. At any rate hope your holiday was joyful. And thank you for your
great defense of catholic theology.

 

[OldProf]

Before I became Catholic in Easter of 2011 at age 53 i was Methodist for the rest of my life up to that point.

I was taught Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrew 10:26-32. I don’t know how anyone can read those passages and believe OSAS. Methodists don’t believe in OSAS–neither do Lutherans and Episcopalians and Weslyeans–even Free Will Baptists don’t believe it!

You really have to get FAR out there like most Baptists and Presbyterians to believe it.

In my journey to Catholicsm when I would go to a Protestant funeral i would wonder if the person went to heaven or not. I knew OSAS wasn’t true but I didn’t know how far you would have to “Backslide” to wind up going to Hell.

When I learned about mortal and venial sin and about purgatory for those who die in a state of grace but with venial sin or attachments the Catholic faith made 100% perfect sense to me.

OSAS is the EASYY way–in my opinion that is why the devil came up with it.

the Catholic way is HARD but it is also easy because we as Catholics have the sacraments.

The bottom line is no one gets to heaven without Jesus and no one enters heaven unless they are holy. OSAS lets people enter heaven with sin.

That is why ultimately it is false!

Hey Jerry-Jet, these are STRONG words! Are YOU trying to convert ME??

Just kidding, folks.

If you WANT to convert me (I’m saying this is to all the folks in this thread), I’m just fine with that. However, the arguments you provide need to be of the type offered by guanophore (he is the best I’ve seen so far in his understanding of where I’m coming from - I’m primarily a student of reformed theology which is a term most people do not understand). He offers a logical response my Scriptural understanding that, if I become convinced he is correct in the RC understanding, I can then take that position with my reformed theology friends (I have many, many of these friends, some in high places such as Professors of Church History, Systematic Theology, Greek at various Protestant Seminaries - some are just down the road from me at Liberty University) and see which is best supported by Scripture.

Some may be wondering where I have been the last few days. Well, I was in FL visiting family, they all came and spent the Thanksgiving weekend, so I had some time to respond to the Hebrews 6:4-8 verses asked about by guanophore prior to Thanksgiving dinner. And he gave a thoughtful response back that I want to further respond to and correct him (if I can!). I was busy the rest of the weekend and had to drive home yesterday. Was too tired to sit down and start responding back after that long drive. I’m on lunch hour at work now for a quick (name removed by moderator)ut.

But back to Jerry-Jet. I can agree with much of what you said. Here is where we part company:

JJ: “You really have to get FAR out there like most Baptists and Presbyterians to believe it.”

Nope. We believe TULIP where “P” stands for PERSEVERENCE. Of course we believe this is a thoroughly biblical doctrine. I believe you are underestimating the biblical case for the “P”.

JJ: “OSAS is the EASYY way–in my opinion that is why the devil came up with it.”

Nope. I believe you mis-understand freewill and just how damaged it was in the fall. The case that we are spiritually dead is made by Jesus and Paul. But Christians will have the mind of Christ through God’s grace, so the Christian will always want to be righteous and will be sad and troubled when they sin. Augustine and Pelagius wrote on this theology of freewill. The will of man is “born again, a new creation” for any who become a sheep of Jesus (a Christian), and Jesus, the Good Shepherd, will never lose any sheep. Read 1 John and you can see a virtual checklist that the Christian will follow in their new life. That is why they can have an assurance of their salvation (1 John 5:13).

JJ: “OSAS lets people enter heaven with sin. That is why ultimately it is false!”

Nope. Sinners who go to heaven go because Jesus paid the punishment for their sins. They have the righteousness of God.

Regards, OldProf

 

[fbl9]

chop…

Nope. Sinners who go to heaven go because Jesus paid the punishment for their sins. They have the righteousness of God.

Regards, OldProf

Then why the need to repent in order to avoid punishment in this life?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, OldProf,

Glad to hear that you had an enjoyable Thanksgiving and reunion with your family.

I am delighted to hear that you like Guanophore’s responses. Let me encourage you to directly engage him in debate on this topic.

Actually, I thought Jerry had some really good ideas - and, you may want to re-consider your responses for I think they fell short. Let me give you some ideas in this area.

Actually, the “P” in TULIP is something other than “Perseverance”, but rather “Perseverance of the Saints” and there is truly a significant difference. And, let me tell you about this difference.

As a Catholic, we are looking at Perseverance to mean “…the human will is enabled to persevere unto the end if it duly co-operates.” (newadvent.org/cathen/11711a.htm) Yep, there is that old ‘pesky’ Free Will issue again - and I am still awaiting your definition. And, it is this Free Will - a profound Gift of God to each of us - which enables us to actually make a choice either for or against God. Here is another link that may clarify this issue: ignatiusinsight.com/features2007/stewart_security_jan07.asp

Conversely, ‘Perseverance of the Saints’ means that ‘AoS’ is the guarantee of salvation having nothing to do with a person having Free Will. Now here is an apologetic on TULIP - and in my opinion is that this is accurate - prca.org/fivepoints/chapter5.html and I would like to point out the author makes several serious misrepresentations about the Catholic Faith.

Now, the entire concept of “OSAS” does not even bother with sin - as a willful offense against God, well… it just isn’t an issue. After all, Christ only died for some and not for all - so, if it is an issue of Christ dying for only a selective few - then anything one can imagine in direct opppositiion to Christ’s teachings. Here are a few links:

Mark 14 veritasbible.com/drb/compare/haydock/Mark_14 - none are excluded from Christ’s Sacrifice.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a4p2.htm

Yes, it is true that we have been born again with the waters of Baptism, we have life in us through the Grace of God to believe Jesus Christ came to save us from our sins, and we can surely count on the promises of God that we will be with Him in heaven - IF AND ONLY IF we DO what He told us to do all the way until our death. Dropping off the second half simply distorts the Word of God into a human distortion.

So, again, OldProf, let me encourage you to engage Guanophore, rather then this waltz around the issues sprinkled with scriptural quotes that are simply misapplied.

God bless

Hey Jerry-Jet, these are STRONG words! Are YOU trying to convert ME??

Just kidding, folks.

If you WANT to convert me (I’m saying this is to all the folks in this thread), I’m just fine with that. However, the arguments you provide need to be of the type offered by guanophore (he is the best I’ve seen so far in his understanding of where I’m coming from - I’m primarily a student of reformed theology which is a term most people do not understand). He offers a logical response my Scriptural understanding that, if I become convinced he is correct in the RC understanding, I can then take that position with my reformed theology friends (I have many, many of these friends, some in high places such as Professors of Church History, Systematic Theology, Greek at various Protestant Seminaries - some are just down the road from me at Liberty University) and see which is best supported by Scripture.

Some may be wondering where I have been the last few days. Well, I was in FL visiting family, they all came and spent the Thanksgiving weekend, so I had some time to respond to the Hebrews 6:4-8 verses asked about by guanophore prior to Thanksgiving dinner. And he gave a thoughtful response back that I want to further respond to and correct him (if I can!). I was busy the rest of the weekend and had to drive home yesterday. Was too tired to sit down and start responding back after that long drive. I’m on lunch hour at work now for a quick (name removed by moderator)ut.

But back to Jerry-Jet. I can agree with much of what you said. Here is where we part company:

JJ: “You really have to get FAR out there like most Baptists and Presbyterians to believe it.”

Nope. We believe TULIP where “P” stands for PERSEVERENCE. Of course we believe this is a thoroughly biblical doctrine. I believe you are underestimating the biblical case for the “P”.

JJ: “OSAS is the EASYY way–in my opinion that is why the devil came up with it.”

Nope. I believe you mis-understand freewill and just how damaged it was in the fall. The case that we are spiritually dead is made by Jesus and Paul. But Christians will have the mind of Christ through God’s grace, so the Christian will always want to be righteous and will be sad and troubled when they sin. Augustine and Pelagius wrote on this theology of freewill. The will of man is “born again, a new creation” for any who become a sheep of Jesus (a Christian), and Jesus, the Good Shepherd, will never lose any sheep. Read 1 John and you can see a virtual checklist that the Christian will follow in their new life. That is why they can have an assurance of their salvation (1 John 5:13).

JJ: “OSAS lets people enter heaven with sin. That is why ultimately it is false!”

Nope. Sinners who go to heaven go because Jesus paid the punishment for their sins. They have the righteousness of God.

Regards, OldProf

 

[jcrichton]

To all of the catholic posters, I have followed this thread from the beginning, and maybe I was wrong about Old Professor’s intent but the impression I got while reading the posts,
was that he was avoiding answering direct questions that were posed to him.(aside from
when he was doing personal things.) He also repeated the same arguments and bible verses. Also it appeared that he was denigrating Roman Catholic theology.
But I wanted it said, that I mean no ill will toward Old Professer and if I have offended anybody, I apologize. At any rate hope your holiday was joyful. And thank you for your
great defense of catholic theology.

october baby, I hold the same observations… he makes blanket statements to circumvent those Scriptural passages that do not support his theology, ignores the challenges Scriptures make, interpretes the passages he offers through his preconceived critical analysis (systematic theology), and ignores even the Word of Christ when He states that He came to Save all who Believe in Him! …he does seem to take jabs at the Church (but I understand that since most non-Catholic Christians are predisposed to fault the Church–it is inherent to their discipline: Protestantism)… and he does repeat the material (both direct text and reference to previous posts) while ignoring the fact that his points have been refuted and that we, as the Catholic Church, do not reject the Word of God but the erroneous interpretations of Sacred Scriptures.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Fbl9,

That is an excellent question! :thumbsup

From the time Christ’s Public Ministry is introduced by the John the Baptist in Mark 1 and Matthew 3, John is telling people to repent. Maybe he missed the ‘OSAS’ memo - because he certainly did not act like he was already saved. Then we go to Peter on Pentecost Sunday in Acts 2 and he says the same thing: repent and be baptized. And, all of the pages in between say the sme thing - we must repent and humbly approach Christ and ask for His Mercy. The NT is remarkably consistent when it comes to what we must DO to be saved.

One thing, however, that we do not find anywhere in the NT where Christ tell his disciples to relax and take it easy - after all…they are saved now because ‘OSAS’. The fact that ‘OSAS’ was not written down is because it was just understood amongst the disciples.

God bless

Then why the need to repent in order to avoid punishment in this life?

 

[Philthy]

Can Catholics Have the Assurance of Salvation?

Can they? Absolutely. The question is difficult to expand upon because the link is removed and the term “Assurance of Salvation” is vague. I’d be happy to discuss fully if you give me an idea exactly what you mean by “Assurance of Salvation”.

 

[jcrichton]

Before I became Catholic in Easter of 2011 at age 53 i was Methodist for the rest of my life up to that point.

I was taught Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrew 10:26-32. I don’t know how anyone can read those passages and believe OSAS. Methodists don’t believe in OSAS–neither do Lutherans and Episcopalians and Weslyeans–even Free Will Baptists don’t believe it!

You really have to get FAR out there like most Baptists and Presbyterians to believe it.

In my journey to Catholicsm when I would go to a Protestant funeral i would wonder if the person went to heaven or not. I knew OSAS wasn’t true but I didn’t know how far you would have to “Backslide” to wind up going to Hell.

When I learned about mortal and venial sin and about purgatory for those who die in a state of grace but with venial sin or attachments the Catholic faith made 100% perfect sense to me.

OSAS is the EASYY way–in my opinion that is why the devil came up with it.

the Catholic way is HARD but it is also easy because we as Catholics have the sacraments.

The bottom line is no one gets to heaven without Jesus and no one enters heaven unless they are holy. OSAS lets people enter heaven with sin.

That is why ultimately it is false!

Welcomed Home!

I fully concur with your final statements–what I find truly interesting is that Scriptures state that we cannot fool God and that nothing wicked/sinful would enter into the Holy City (the Presence of God)… so how can denyal of sin make a person pure? …it’s quite reminiscent of the Garden of Eden when the Ancient Serpent twisted God’s Word and promised Eve that by disobeying God she and Adam would certainly not die! :doh2:

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Bookcat]

May I live looking forward to the Resurrection! In the Joy of Knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. Rejoicing in already beginning to know* true life* in him.

(Now could I turn away from Christ before I die…rejecting in effect the life he gave me in Faith and Baptism (and all the other ways) and die in choice? --yes such is a possibility. May I remain in Christ always!)

By the grace of God I intend to remain in Christ…a branch on his vine …to “abide in him” …to not be “cut off” (due to my own choice)…(John 15:5-6, and Romans 11:22).

And if in this life I should unhappily commit a mortal sin…I intend to call out to the Good Shepherd and go to those whom he has given the authority to absolve me…to be forgiven and returned to life (John 20:22-23). I pray that I may always remain in him and thus leave this life remaining in life (by his grace).

*We walk by *Faith not by sight (2 Cor 5:7)

and are saved in hope (see Romans 8:24)…and thus I have the great “certitude of hope”!

A real kind of assurance I have. A very real confidence. I do not though have “infallible” certitude. For example I do not know that I will in fact remain living in Christ and not betray him and die separated from him. And even now I could commit a mortal sin (Lord preserve me from this!). Indeed Jesus even said that not everyone who says to him “Lord Lord” will enter the kingdom of Heaven. (Matt 7:21)

But I have a great confidence in Christ my hope!

*I know in whom I have believed *(2 Tim 1:12)

My Faith and my hope and trust is in the Lord Jesus Christ! The Good Shepherd!

In Jesus of Nazareth is true life.

 

[fbl9]

Hi, OldProf,

Glad to hear that you had an enjoyable Thanksgiving and reunion with your family.

I am delighted to hear that you like Guanophore’s responses. Let me encourage you to directly engage him in debate on this topic.

that’s half the reason i am here.
the other half is due to the topic at hand.