At what level does the existence of heaven justify the existence of hell?

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STT said:
And that make sense to you?
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Yes, because grace assists the willing soul in turning to God. It does not change the will.

Besides, who am I to argue with what has been written down? Doesn’t matter if it makes sense, it happened.
 
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STT said:
Why He does not ensure us [of his existence]?
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Becoming incarnate, submitting to crucifixion and rising from the dead isn’t the very definition of God demonstrating that He exists ???
🤔
STT said:
Why we should love God if we are not sure if He exist at all?
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How would you propose that you might personally reach a conclusion of “surety of God’s existence”?

More to the point: why would your personal, subjective conclusion determine the objective truth of the answer?
 
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STT said:
And you think that a rational person who is sure that Jesus is God choose Hell and betrays?
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I think it’s a stupid choice but one still capable of being made, obviously, since it’s happened. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that.
 
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Gorgias said:
Becoming incarnate, submitting to crucifixion and rising from the dead isn’t the very definition of God demonstrating that He exists ???
🤔
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People have different believes depending on what they were exposed to.
Gorgias said:
How would you propose that you might personally reach a conclusion of “surety of God’s existence”?
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To have Beatific Vision.
Gorgias said:
More to the point: why would your personal, subjective conclusion determine the objective truth of the answer?
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Yes, that is why we need Beatific Vision otherwise it is all a subjective opinion.
 
I’m saying it was a stupid choice, but one he made with full knowledge of what he was doing.
 
Gorgias said:
The Church teaches that the primary punishment of hell is ‘separation from God’.
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Not just separation from God; separation from you as well. As a good Christian in heaven, you love all those people. Are you happy being eternally separated from those you love?

Separation from people you love is a cause of suffering.
 
STT said:
Rational people don’t choose stupid choice.
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That’s laughable. You’ve never done something stupid?
STT said:
Moreover, Peter didn’t have Beatific Vision so he couldn’t be 100% sure about Jesus being God.
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Non-sequitur. The beatific vision is not necessary to know Jesus is God.
 
STT said:
What do you need to become sure that Jesus was God?
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I mean, Peter was with Jesus for years and went with Him everywhere. That personal relationship with Christ helped him know who Christ really is.
STT said:
Doing stupid is matter of being stupid. You cannot be all wise and do stupid thing.
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Do you think only someone who is all-wise can have full knowledge?
 
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STT said:
People have different believes depending on what they were exposed to.
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In other words, this isn’t a problem of God demonstrating His existence, but rather, whether people choose to believe the evidence that He has.

In other words, if you choose to disbelieve… that’s on you.
STT said:
To have Beatific Vision.
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That’s an end result, not a step on the path.

In other words, you’re answering the question “how do I know that there’s a World Cup?” with “by winning it.” Umm… 🤦‍♂️
STT said:
Yes, that is why we need Beatific Vision otherwise it is all a subjective opinion.
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No… it’s a personal, subjective decision on how to approach objective evidence. Your “opinion” of the evidence doesn’t mean that the evidence isn’t objectively true.
rossum said:
Not just separation from God; separation from you as well.
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The latter follows from the former.
rossum said:
As a good Christian in heaven, you love all those people. Are you happy being eternally separated from those you love? Separation from people you love is a cause of suffering.
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Already asked and answered – first, eternal bliss proceeds from the Beatific Vision. Period, full stop. Second, if you already have eternal fullness of bliss, nothing rises to the level of “causing suffering.” In other words, when you win the World Cup, are you suffering if your favorite energy drink isn’t as cold as you’d like it to be?
😉
STT said:
Rational people don’t choose stupid choice.
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🤣 🤣

Umm… not true.
STT said:
You cannot be all wise and do stupid thing.
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Who’s saying that humans are “all wise”?
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
I mean, Peter was with Jesus for years and went with Him everywhere. That personal relationship with Christ helped him know who Christ really is.
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Apparently being with Jesus was not enough to make him believe that Jesus is God.
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
Do you think only someone who is all-wise can have full knowledge?
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A wise person knows the consequence of his choice. So he wouldn’t choose stupid choice.
 
Gorgias said:
In other words, this isn’t a problem of God demonstrating His existence, but rather, whether people choose to believe the evidence that He has.

In other words, if you choose to disbelieve… that’s on you.
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We cannot disbelieve when there are sufficient reason, Beatific Vision. Otherwise we all go our own way.
Gorgias said:
That’s an end result, not a step on the path.

In other words, you’re answering the question “how do I know that there’s a World Cup?” with “by winning it.” Umm… 🤦‍♂️
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It should not be the end result.
Gorgias said:
No… it’s a personal, subjective decision on how to approach objective evidence. Your “opinion” of the evidence doesn’t mean that the evidence isn’t objectively true.
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What evidence? Even Devils can perform miracle.
Gorgias said:
🤣 🤣

Umm… not true.
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So you don’t believe that people become mature as they age.
Gorgias said:
Who’s saying that humans are “all wise”?
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I am not saying that humans are all-wise. I am saying that people make a stupid decision because they are not all-wise or to some degree they are stupid.
 
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