At what level does the existence of heaven justify the existence of hell?

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Not all wise, but Peter knows Jesus is God and betrays Him. You don’t need to be all wise to fully know.
 
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STT said:
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whatistrue:
I wouldn’t say that everyone who experienced a vision eventually chose God. The point that seems to be missed here is that the Beatific Vision is different from a normal “vision” and only comes to those who die in a state of grace and enter Heaven. It’s not something you can give to a living human.
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Why God does not give the vision to everybody?
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Because love.
God is love.
Love only exists in freedom. So God does not force the beatific vision on anyone. It’s an open offer and we have the freedom to respond.
That makes love risky. Giving others the freedom to either reject or choose you means you may (will) get hurt.

And that’s what the Cross is all about. Have you ever looked at a cross with a corpus on it?
(not trying to be combative) and have you ever loved someone and been hurt by them?
 
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goout said:
Because love.
God is love.
Love only exists in freedom.
That makes love risky. Giving others the freedom to either reject or choose you means you may (will) get hurt.

And that’s what the Cross is all about. Have you ever looked at a cross with a corpus on it?
(not trying to be combative) and have you ever loved someone and been hurt by them?
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That is not a proper answer to my question. People are just not sure about Christianity. That is why they are all scattered. What they need is the Vision. All problems are solved.
 
lelinator said:
How many people does it take to justify the existence of hell?
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I would suggest that the existence of hell isn’t dependent on the existence of heaven, but on the existence of free will. Just as God has given us the ability to accept and love Him, so too has He given us the ability to reject Him for all eternity.
 
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STT said:
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goout:
Because love.
God is love.
Love only exists in freedom.
That makes love risky. Giving others the freedom to either reject or choose you means you may (will) get hurt.

And that’s what the Cross is all about. Have you ever looked at a cross with a corpus on it?
(not trying to be combative) and have you ever loved someone and been hurt by them?
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That is not a proper answer to my question. People are just not sure about Christianity. That is why they are all scattered. What they need is the Vision. All problems are solved.
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Do you think that is a real expectation…considering what you know about the world.
If you love another, and your force your beatific vision on her, you will not be loved in return, you will be ARRESTED. Shouldn’t we have solid reasons to know that giving the beloved no options is in fact evil?
 
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goout said:
Do you think that is a real expectation…considering what you know about the world.
If you love another, and your force your beatific vision on her, you will not be loved, you will be ARRESTED.
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I don’t think that any reasonable person won’t ask for a justification, in this case Beatific Vision.
 
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lelinator said:
Would the existence of heaven be justified if only a small number of people actually ended up there?

Would it be justified if only a thousand people ended up there?

Or a million?

How many people does it take to justify the existence of hell?
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Hell is entirely justified based on the actions of people.

Heaven is a supernatural end, not something people deserve on their own merits.
 
STT said:
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Gorgias:
How would you propose that you might personally reach a conclusion of “surety of God’s existence”?
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To have Beatific Vision.
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Suppose you have a beatific vision; how could you know that it was not just an hallucination, un uncoscious product of your own mind?
The truth us that you need faith to understand if a beatific vision is really a vision of the true God.
 
God justifies the existence of hell.
Regardless of Heaven’s existence there is going to be a place God justifies as a place for demons, the devil and unrepentent humans.

@lelinator see the face of Jesus in the eyes of those here on earth suffering. Jesus teaches us to help those suffering.
 
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One obvious problem with this question is that begs accountability for hellish consequences while taking the existence of heaven for granted.
If you are going to be consistent with this type of challenge, you ought to admit that even something so essential as your own being is utterly “unjustified” by any human standard.

The problem with the problem of evil is, people have no problem with soakin up the goodness. Who is accountable for that?
 
rossum said:
In heaven there is eternal separation from those that you love who are in hell. In the Buddhist definition, that makes heaven a place of suffering.
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In heaven there is eternal joy because we are with the one we love above all others - God.
 
rossum said:
As a good Christian in heaven, you love all those people. Are you happy being eternally separated from those you love?

Separation from people you love is a cause of suffering.
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People in Hell have irreversely and definitely chosen evil, so that they have become evil themselves. We must reject evil, we must not love evil, therefore the souls in Hell can no longer be loved.
 
STT said:
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Mmarco:
Suppose you have a beatific vision; how could you know that it was not just an hallucination, un uncoscious product of your own mind?
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That is God problem not mine.
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This is not a valid answer. The point is that you are using the beatific vission as a pretext to justify your unbelief. The truth is that God has given us all we need to believe in His existence and in His infinite love and goodness.
STT said:
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Mmarco:
The truth us that you need faith to understand if a beatific vision is really a vision of the true God.
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Faith in Heaven? Are you serious?
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Absolutely.
 
STT said:
Yes, and there is Buddha, Mohamad, … who all claimed that they are the way to the truth.
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There is a big difference there. Buddha and Mohamed were not God incarnate. They did not suffer horribly as Jesus did in His Passion. They did not rise from the dead. They did not perform miracles and minister to announce the Kingdom of God.

They were only creatures, men, the creations of God.
They did not ever claim anything else. Nor did anyone else who was given credible opinion.
 
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