At what level does the existence of heaven justify the existence of hell?

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Gorgias said:
No… even without the Beatific Vision, the act of disobeying God is precisely the act of rejecting Him. It may be forgiven, of course, but it’s “rejection.”
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I know your teaching. My question is why not give people the Vision and solve all problem around the world?
 
STT said:
Should we punished because we have specific nature?
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As @Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said above, we choose the punishment by our actions. We are not robots or mere animals that cannot escape their nature; we are humans who can rise above it.
 
STT said:
my point is if people have such a experience then they choose God
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I wouldn’t say that everyone who experienced a vision eventually chose God. The point that seems to be missed here is that the Beatific Vision is different from a normal “vision” and only comes to those who die in a state of grace and enter Heaven. It’s not something you can give to a living human.
 
whatistrue said:
I wouldn’t say that everyone who experienced a vision eventually chose God. The point that seems to be missed here is that the Beatific Vision is different from a normal “vision” and only comes to those who die in a state of grace and enter Heaven. It’s not something you can give to a living human.
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Why God does not give the vision to everybody?
 
STT said:
My question is why not give people the Vision and solve all problem around the world?
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Old question. Asked and answered in a variety of ways, a number of times.

God ordained that access to the Beatific Vision would be contingent on a person’s free-will choice to accept Him.

Why is that His approach? We can only offer possible answers. However, one obvious implication is that love matters to God. Therefore, our love of God and neighbor is that on which our salvation hinges.
 
lelinator said:
How many people does it take to justify the existence of hell?
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False premise, making this an unanswerable question.

The ‘justification’ of hell has nothing to do with what number of people end up in heaven.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
Some people will always end up in hell. God gives us enough grace for each person to choose heaven if they want to. The only defect is us, not God’s amount of grace.

Your premise is incorrect, therefore your argument falls.
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I do believe that neither your assertion, nor my premise are necessarily incorrect.

To say that God infused His creation with enough grace that anyone could choose heaven, isn’t the same as saying that God infused creation with so much grace that everyone would choose heaven.

To say that there’s enough grace that anyone could, doesn’t imply that there’s enough grace that everyone would. It’s this grey area that allows for the existence of free will. It also allows for the existence of hell.
 
There is no amount of grace such that everyone would choose heaven. Some souls, no matter the grace, will choose hell. God gives grace such that, if the soul chooses to follow Him, they will succeed. Grace cannot change the will of man, only aid it in becoming more Christ-like.
 
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STT said:
It is very obvious that if you really believe in Heaven and Hell and has capacity to avoid the sin then you avoid the sin.
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That is wrong. People will still choose sin with full knowledge of heaven and hell. Heck, Peter sinned despite knowing and professing that Jesus is God. It’s how we are. Your idea that “If we really knew we wouldn’t sin” is easily countered by the examples of those who did exactly the opposite.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
There is no amount of grace such that everyone would choose heaven.
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Untrue. Grace is sufficient. However, some reject it, and therefore, although it’s sufficient, it isn’t (in the end) efficacious.
STT said:
It is very obvious that if you really believe in Heaven and Hell and has capacity to avoid the sin then you avoid the sin.
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Not true. “You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.” – James 2:19
 
Gorgias said:
Old question. Asked and answered in a variety of ways, a number of times.

God ordained that access to the Beatific Vision would be contingent on a person’s free-will choice to accept Him.

Why is that His approach? We can only offer possible answers. However, one obvious implication is that love matters to God . Therefore, our love of God and neighbor is that on which our salvation hinges.
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Why we should love God if we are not sure if He exist at all? Why He does not ensure us?
 
Gorgias said:
Untrue. Grace is sufficient . However, some reject it, and therefore, although it’s sufficient, it isn’t (in the end) efficacious .
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Yes. The grace is sufficient but must be cooperated with. It doesn’t matter how much grace is given to a certain soul if they will simply refuse to cooperate with it.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
That is wrong. People will still choose sin with full knowledge of heaven and hell. Heck, Peter sinned despite knowing and professing that Jesus is God. It’s how we are. Your idea that “If we really knew we wouldn’t sin” is easily countered by the examples of those who did exactly the opposite.
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So you are able to read Peter’s mind and intention? He was sure that Jesus is God and prefer eternal Hell?
 
STT said:
He was sure that Jesus is God and prefer eternal Hell?
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Well he was sure Jesus is God, and chose to reject Him anyway, so yes. It’s written down in scripture that such events were what occurred.
 
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