At what point do you let go and file for divorce?

[BMB]

Please tell me you don’t leave him in your house alone with the kids.

uhhhh… ok, I won’t tell you that. I know, I know… I’ve got a long way to got to reconcile the truth with my skewed view of him.

Actions have consequences. Your kids need to see that.

Thanks for the reality check re that the kids are really at stake here.

in many states, when a divorce is finalized, the state steps in and the husband has to pay through the attorney general’s office and the state cuts you a check.

In my state you may choose whether or not to agree to pay privately or through the state attorneys office or not.

Or did he for about the last 1460 days EVERY DAY wake up and make a conscious decision to perpetuate a lie and continue a path that would destroy his family. And YOU are feeling guilty???

So on target… thanks for the kick in the pants.

Somehow God will send the people along who have been there, done that to help you. Take it one day at a time. His feelings are HIS problem from now on. Keep telling yourself that.

God must have directed me to this place of great advice and stern talking to(s). It’s true that tomorrow is another day. I always feel so vulnerable in the evening and last night was difficult. This morning I feel bouyed by your words and God’s hands. I HATE feeling so weak because I have always “pitied the fool who allowed” herself to be mistreated. I was biased in that i believed divorced people simply hadn’t tried hard enough. What a sad, sad humbling joke on me.

Ok… marching on to extract myself one small step at a time. Think of me around 2:30 pm Eastern time! :yyeess:

 

[BMB]

the mistress saw my father dating yet a third woman.

I’ve been told many times that a zebra can’t change it’s stripes. Another addage proving to be all too true. Once an cheater always a cheater?

It’s free will, as Liberanosamalo said. God cannot fix someone who won’t cooperate with him.

I find it very comforting that you experienced your father’s behavior yet appear to be a thoughtful, religious man - Adds to my hope for my children. Did your mother DO anything in particular to help you not repeat your father’s errors? Just wondering.

I will continue to pray for my husband, that he one day allows God to walk with him.

 

[jmcrae]

BMB;

We are with you in spirit. When you feel alone and lost there at the bank, remember, our angels are hovering around you, giving you the strength you need - all you have to do is reach out and take it. You know what you have to do. And yes, the doing is hard, when when he is making puppy dog eyes and trying to make everything seem to be your fault.

But if he gets angry, get angry back at him. Don’t cry, don’t try to reconcile; just yell back. Don’t worry about making a scene - yes, they’ll talk about it for days, but they’ll know there’s iron under that marshmallow appearance.

I remember a line from a ghost movie I watched one time; the mother of the little girl who is seeing ghosts (the ghosts are scaring her) so the mother goes upstairs to where the little girl says the ghosts are, and she screams and rants and raves at the ghosts to stop bothering her little girl.

The little girl is horrified, she says, “Mummy, you’ll make them mad!” And the mother says to her, “Sometimes, honey, you just have to take charge of a situation, and not worry about who gets mad.”

Wise advice.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

This, my dear, is why we have courts. The court system protects people from spouses who want their cake and eat it too. It forces them to split assets so that you don’t end up paying for concubine’s new car while your kids go without dental care. It forces cheating spouses to finally accept the reality of what they are doing and have to go public with their bad private behavior. It also forces abusive spouses to leave homes and surrender keys and enables the enforcement of restraining orders and separate housing. (Try to find some other way to get a spouse out of your house when their name is on the title also.)

Abusers and narcissists would let untenable situations go on forever if not for the fact that divorce laws enable the courts to enforce separate checking accounts and direct deposit of child support, insurance and alimony.

Otherwise, one is dependent upon the good nature and moral rectitude of people who have shown none thus far to provide for the families they are abandoning or abusing.

And the priest was correct about why our pluralistic society doesn’t allow the church to annul legal marriages. Not everyone in this country has a religious marriage bond. And this is one of the few countries that allows the religious ceremony to count for the legal civil ceremony also. Most European countries mandate separate ceremonies for civil and religious reasons, I believe.

You know, it’s reassuring to see posts like this in the forums.Some of the advice I’ve seen in other forums hearkens back to the Dark Ages or thereabouts.
I’m all about the sanctity of marriage but also all about women’s dignity & safety.(Men’s, too for that matter.)

 

[faithandhope]

I pray for you and your family.

 

[JacyRussell]

My husband and I have been separated for a yr. Since his return from Iraq 6 yrs ago, our relationship has been distant, I assumed he was depressed - knew we were both struggling to find connections, but NEVER believed him capable of betraying our marriage.

It is a long, painful convuluted story of being hurt daily from neglect… I was a stay at home mom, did all planning, cooking, shopping, finances etc. so that he could focus on his job. I look back and see my life as a serious of his dismissals of my value and my resentment toward his behaviours.

His request to separate (insisting there was no one else) in June of last year was a bombshell and I refused, demanding counseling… trying to rekindle. On Jan 1, 08 I find the explicit emails that blew me away. He finally admitted a 4 year affair with a woman at work (her husband found out and they have since divorced). I am still humiliated by his lies, esp during this time prior to full disclosure.

Im STILL in disbelief, betrayed daily for 4, now 5 years. We are legally separated but he choses to leave me resonsible for all finances, debt payment… while he continues his extra-marital relationship. He lives with his mom because there is no extra money.

He will not go to counseling, will not go to the Doctor, and has never taken the medication for his Crohns disease (prefers to deny he has it) even though it is flaring again, will not go to church (lied for years about attending Mass) will not give up his lover, but will not completely move on from the comfort of home-base. He was baptised and became Catholic the Easter prior to our marriage. He refuses to go to confession. I fear for his soul.

I am so ashamed of this failure. Is divorce the only way to regain balance? Some perspective please.

Hi, I am a convert to the church. My ex husband was never baptized in any faith. My 1st question is did your husband convert of his own desire or was it something you requested for marraige. In my case, a poor foundation without communion with God was an issue. My husband cheated, had substance/alcohol issues. During this time, I was stuffing my anger and pain. Only my body started taking the hits and I became profoundly ill…to the point of near death over 7 times. If your husband was willing, I would suggest Retrovaille; both of you must attend for at least 2 days and it is intense and meant to save or restructure a marraige. If the other party is not willing to do so, then it is out of your control. His health problems are “his” to deal with. I was in the same position as you and may I suggest you talk to your parish priest and stat. In my case domestic abuse was prevalent. I thank God that I had a good and decent priest who told me I was nobodys doormat or punching bag. You cannot force a relationship with someone who wants out, I was married for almost 20 years and I know it is painful. Do not try to force God’s will…just pray that his will be done. Peace be with you.

 

[BMB]

Hi - thanks for everyone who knew this afternoon would be hard for me and sent their spiritual support… I survived the bank and he is now responsible for his own bills. He brought the necessary forms to complete to have the CS and Alimony direct deposited. I was shocked but so appreciative not to have to continue chasing these loose ends anymore. I think the prayers (and perhaps some of my new found resolve) told him not to fight it. Still have to get the debt changed to his responsibility, but all in all a very empowering & successful day.

I did **not **cry but was a little shaky. He was late but did come prepared to finish this up. He choked up a bit and said “I’m sorry about this stuff.” Not sorry about the affair or sorry about lying or possibly transferring STD’s or devastating his kids - Rather, sorry about not loving me anymore I think. Ok then.

did your husband convert of his own desire or was it something you requested for marraige. .

No, I did not demand this at all. He had never been baptised. I could not marry an unbaptised person, however, he could have been baptised Baptist, Methodist, any Christian faith as far as I was concerned. He decided that he wanted the stability and religious aspects he saw in my family.

I CAN NOT be sure he ever really accepted the faith but he did attend all the RCIA meetings, was confirmed and attended the marriage encounter weekend & All masses with me. Later in the marriage he began working more and lying about attending Mass while really making time with his mistress. He did not attend at all during his 1st tour or 2nd tour in Iraq. Did he have faith? How could I make that judgement? - I dont’ know… but he doesn’t pray now or attend Mass.

If your husband was willing, I would suggest Retrovaille; both of you must attend for at least 2 days and it is intense and meant to save or restructure a marriage.

Until reading some of CAF’s posts I had NEVER even heard of Retrovaille. I looked it up on the internet to understand it’s purpose and there are no instances in my State at all. Cradle Catholic and NEVER heard of this ? What a shame. He will not go. I know it… he wants her, not me.

You cannot force a relationship with someone who wants out, I was married for almost 20 years and I know it is painful. Do not try to force God’s will…just pray that his will be done. Peace be with you.

18 Years… I look back and doubt if any of it was based on real love. You are right… How dare I think I know what is best for me. Got to believe that God has a loving long term plan full of love for me.

 

[whatevergirl]

BMB, so happy for you that this piece has been put to rest. And you know, you comment…‘he wants her, not me.’ Funny things happen when people cheat. They eventually view the person they are cheating with as…how can this person not care or not have cared, that I was married? That will happen to him, albeit way too late. He will have an epiphany someday. I’m not saying this for any other reason than to say, it may seem like he ‘wants’ her now, but eventually…he will see, that the woman he is now enchanted with, didn’t care about the feelings of another…helped destroy a marriage…and decided that her needs were more important than morals. She won’t be appealing when he reaches that state.

I am praying for you to remain strong…and for your husband to get the help he needs. Whether he ends up with you in the end…or someday again…I pray that this relatoinship ends. A relationship that develops through an affair is always doomed, never blessed by God.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I am praying for you to remain strong…and for your husband to get the help he needs. Whether he ends up with you in the end…or someday again…I pray that this relatoinship ends. A relationship that develops through an affair is always doomed, never blessed by God.

Glad that all went well. I said a prayer for you this afternoon. Remember to take it one day at a time. But what a great way to spend Ash Wednesday, cleaning up the junk from the past.

 

[sdtouchton]

God’s plan for a married couple to stay married as long as both spouses are alive. Each and every divorce is a result of sin, either on the part of one spouse or both spouses. The Bible gives only two reasons in which divorce is permitted: the first is in the case of abandonment of a Christian by an unbelieving spouse. A person who gets a divorce for a reason other than the reasons listed above, and then gets remarried – that person has committed adultery. It is distressing that the divorce rate among professing Christians is nearly as high as that of the unbelieving world
Ref Verses:
hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, “and I hate a man’s covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,” says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith. Malachi 2:16

So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate. Matthew 19:6

Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. Mark 10:11

And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery. Mark 10:12
But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 1 Corinthians 7:11

To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 1 Corinthians 7:12

And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 1 Corinthians 7:13

Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 1 Corinthians 7:27

'They must not marry women defiled by prostitution or divorced from their husbands, because priests are holy to their God. Leviticus 21:7

If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him and marries another man, should he return to her again? Would not the land be completely defiled? But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers— would you now return to me?" declares the LORD. Jeremiah 3:1

And the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the girl’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. Deuteronomy 22:18-19

I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery. Matthew 19:9

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32

 

[Cracker_Mom]

God’s plan for a married couple to stay married as long as both spouses are alive. Each and every divorce is a result of sin, either on the part of one spouse or both spouses. The Bible gives only two reasons in which divorce is permitted: the first is in the case of abandonment of a Christian by an unbelieving spouse. A person who gets a divorce for a reason other than the reasons listed above, and then gets remarried – that person has committed adultery. It is distressing that the divorce rate among professing Christians is nearly as high as that of the unbelieving world
Ref Verses:
hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, “and I hate a man’s covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,” says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith. Malachi 2:16

So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate. Matthew 19:6

Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. Mark 10:11

And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery. Mark 10:12
But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 1 Corinthians 7:11

To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 1 Corinthians 7:12

And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 1 Corinthians 7:13

Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 1 Corinthians 7:27

'They must not marry women defiled by prostitution or divorced from their husbands, because priests are holy to their God. Leviticus 21:7

If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him and marries another man, should he return to her again? Would not the land be completely defiled? But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers— would you now return to me?" declares the LORD. Jeremiah 3:1

And the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the girl’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. Deuteronomy 22:18-19

I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery. Matthew 19:9

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32

Since this is a Catholic site, how about some references from the Catechism & Church teaching on annulments? We have both Tradition & the Holy Bible.The whole concept of what constitutes a sacramental marriage is a bit foggy to many Catholics.And other Christians as well.

 

[Lerin]

BMB, so glad that things went well at the bank!! I was praying for you but couldn’t check on you yesterday. I read the kick in the pants you got from Liberanosmalo, and is my response.

You see, YOU have a conscience! Of course you feel sad and guilty and all… but he has been ignoring his for so long to continue an affair and the lies that entails, so his attempts to “play sad” are attempts to manipulate you. Because if he were really contrite, he’s make a turnaround. And yes, as she warned… when you ignore the sadness, be prepared for some scary rage. That’s when I stopped all communication… mine got violent.

I am thinking about you and praying for you!! Hang in there, dear sister.

 

[BMB]

I read the kick in the pants you got from Liberanosmalo, and is my response.

You and Liberanosmalo make for a fierce, formidable pair… I hope to one day have the strength you two exhibit ! You also make me laugh - such a surprising thing to do in the midst of this chaos and sadness.

Thank you to all who have prayed for me (and “absent” hubby too). I feel I have a world of support around me. :hug1:

Let the healing begin… next baby step… getting husband to open CC to transfer debt out of my name into his. Would a personal loan be in order rather than CC? I will probably have to remind him he agreed to take the debt while I shifted assets/retirement around the spreadsheet to compensate.

Need to keep this train a 'rollin - let God take me on this journey to where I am supposed to be.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

BMB, trust me when I say eventually you will get your sense of humor back.

In retrospect you will find there is a minefield of black humor in your situation. I’ve laughed with women who walked into parties where their husband’s girlfriend was there and she was wearing HER clothing! Hubby had decided it would look good on his girlfriend. I mean, what would Miss Manners say?
Do you ignore that? Or do you say “Nice top. I had one just like it at home!” Or do you say “Since you have my cast-off man, you might as well have my cast-off clothes too.”

I just started referring to him as “my first husband.” After my annulment, I refer to him as “Mulligan.”

Someday you will laugh. My ex was not a funny man, but he was the source of much humor in others.

 

[limerick]

You and Liberanosmalo make for a fierce, formidable pair… I hope to one day have the strength you two exhibit ! You also make me laugh - such a surprising thing to do in the midst of this chaos and sadness.

Thank you to all who have prayed for me (and “absent” hubby too). I feel I have a world of support around me. :hug1:

Let the healing begin… next baby step… getting husband to open CC to transfer debt out of my name into his. Would a personal loan be in order rather than CC? I will probably have to remind him he agreed to take the debt while I shifted assets/retirement around the spreadsheet to compensate.

Need to keep this train a 'rollin - let God take me on this journey to where I am supposed to be.

BMB,

When I divorced in the late 80s, any debt that was incurred during the marriage was considered a community debt and husband and wife were equally and individually responsible for 100% of the debt. My ex- had IRS problems and I ended up paying half of his debt ($23K). Your soon-to-be ex- may tighten up about the debt structure, and if you have nothing in writing and pehaps notarized, the court may pursue you and your assets to relieve his debts. Please be careful and attentive when discussing the money matters with your attorney.

And by all means, demand that it be spelled out in your final decree that your ex- should be at least 50% responsible for the higher education of your children. This is a point that I missed, and my beautiful, brilliant daughter is slugging it out in this dreadful economy in a job that she hates because she is without the credentials to move ahead. I hadn’t the money to pay for college for her and now we are trying to weave together a plan to get her through school. My ex- put his other daughter (from a different wife) through four years of college and didn’t even leave a dime to my daughter in his will.

Limerick

 

[BMB]

I’ve laughed with women who walked into parties where their husband’s girlfriend was there and she was wearing HER clothing! Hubby had decided it would look good on his girlfriend.

UN-believable. I am amazed at the craziness. Mine ranted about the **slimy, sleezy behavior **of mistress’ ex-husband hiring a private investigator to prove his wife’s adultery. What? Meeting at hotels for quickies for 4 years ISN’T a tad bit sleezier? Telling your wife you are in another state for a work trip while you are actually 40 miles away at a rented lake cabin with lover isn’t sleezy?

Once he had the gall to tell me he wouldn’t hire an applicant because he appeared a “little shifty.”

What, I wonder, does he see when he looks at himself in the mirror. Black humor… Yes… I see it from time to time.

I’m so thankful for the reality check this forum has given me. I have felt a little “lighter” in spirit every day since my first post.
A little less responsible for his soul and more willing to let God lead me.

 

[BMB]

BMB,

When I divorced in the late 80s, any debt that was incurred during the marriage was considered a community debt and husband and wife were equally and individually responsible for 100% of the debt.

And by all means, demand that it be spelled out in your final decree that your ex- should be at least 50% responsible for the higher education of your children.

Thank you for your advice. I have an attorney who helped guide the initial separation and financial agreement. My problem is a bit different in that hubby didn’t get a lawyer. (He knew I wouldn’t take advantange of him but also is a bit too arrogant to believe he needed a lawyer). So, he signed the first draft of the agreement and accepted all the conditions in court.

Problem is getting him to follow through on his promises without having to get the attoney involved again (expensive.) Outstanding Debt is supposed to be transferred to him. (Currently it is all in my name.) He is to pay all College tuitions for kids, I pay 40% of catholic primary education, he pays 60%.

I have been paying on the debt from our existing “joint money” up until now. I’m ready to quit being his accountant. The debt’s got to be moved out of my name or he will ruin my credit. To wrap it up, he agreed to much more than he can probably deliver. (Not a surprise to others who have followed my posts.!)

How could your ex-husband ever have justified abandoning your daughter financially? Unacceptable, however I have no doubt she will be a strong, self-sufficient and wise women with your example to follow.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

What, I wonder, does he see when he looks at himself in the mirror.

I used to joke that mine kept looking in the mirror all the time because he was hoping just once he’d see any reflection at all.



Mine wouldn’t agree to college tuition. The talks almost fell apart by that point and it would have gone to an expensive messy trial, which he was going to perjure himself at.

And a jury might have believed him. He’s a good liar sometimes.

We had money set aside for the kids college before the divorce. My oldest is at school. When she graduated from HS last year, he actually SOLD her his 6 year old car. He told her he was being generous and knocking $2k off the book value.

And he took a good chunk of her college money out of the fund and gave it to himself.

Let’s forget she had worked so hard in high school she actually got credit for a full year of college courses and got some scholarships.

Let’s not reward good behavior.

My poor daughter doesn’t even realize she should be appalled at that. I told her if I had a spare car I would have sold it to her for $2k and left it at that.

What I’m trying to say is that these cheap, cheating fools are a dime a dozen. They think they are special. But they all act like each other. And I promise you when they accuse someone else of being shifty or dishonest or sleazy, they’re talking more about what they see of themselves in that person than who that person really is.

I’d say to my ex “You didn’t just tell me anything about my brother I have known for 36 years, but you told me a lot about yourself.”

Start looking at who they criticize. Tells you what they’re up to. And the worst thing you can do is find them out. When you’re on to their tricks, they get MAD.

Be careful about letting him know what you know.

Good for the other husband. I’m tellin’ ya, your husband’s real concern is his concubine’s reputation. Because if someone proves she’s a cheating tramp, then that makes him the kind of guy who loves cheating tramps. His self image can’t take that.

Did his mother put up with infidelity from his father? I can’t imagine my mother helping out a son who abandoned his family like that.

 

[jmcrae]

Did his mother put up with infidelity from his father? I can’t imagine my mother helping out a son who abandoned his family like that.

Neither can I. In fact, I am absolutely certain that if my brother were ever to treat his wife with any disrespect whatsoever, he would be cut from the will. And he’d get an earful from me, too. :dts:

 

[BMB]

I

What I’m trying to say is that these cheap, cheating fools are a dime a dozen. They think they are special. But they all act like each other. And I promise you when they accuse someone else of being shifty or dishonest or sleazy, they’re talking more about what they see of themselves in that person than who that person really is.

Start looking at who they criticize. Tells you what they’re up to.

You are so right! Over the last several months I have mentally reviewed many of his unusual comments re others… It’s like a honest look into his mind. He especially resents people who aren’t charmed by him and his point view. How dare they?

I’m tellin’ ya, your husband’s real concern is his concubine’s reputation. Because if someone proves she’s a cheating tramp, then that makes him the kind of guy who loves cheating tramps. His self image can’t take that.

But… but… they are BOTH real sorry that they’ve hurt alot of people… they are just meant to be and couldn’t deny themselves any longer… (quote from the mistress the one time we spoke.) I’m sure I believe her.

Did his mother put up with infidelity from his father? I can’t imagine my mother helping out a son who abandoned his family like that.

Recently learned that his Dad was physically abusive to his Mom on occassions… Husband says that he is pretty sure there was infidelifty on his Dad’s part too. MIL took care of FIL when he bacame ill, but I always sensed she resented doing it.

MIL put all her “eggs” so to speak, in the hands of my husband. He was the favored one, the special one in the family, the redeeming grace. He lapped it up, but I’m sure felt overwhelming pressure to fullfill the dreams.

Sadly enough, it was her 60th bday party when he “disappointed her” for the 1st time by not attending her party, rather choosing to “work” and sending me to be his replacement. (all before my knowledge of the affair.)

She has been very kind to me. She is angry/disappointed in him as well - wasn’t going to let him move home (40 miles from us) but I **ASKED **her to allow it. We can not afford “rent/apartment” for him and I needed him gone. Hence, the reason he comes to my house to visit with kids. He cant take them to GMa’s on school nights.