Atheists Step Up 'It's Time to Quit the Catholic Church' Campaign

[Abba]

According to a press release from the Catholic League, the offensive advertisement appears in today’s New York Times
standardnewswire.com/news/486947076.html

The Freedom From Religion Foundation website states that the ad appears on page 10, front section. It also mentions that the New York Times required that the title of the ad be changed from ‘It’s Time to Quit the Catholic Church,’ to ‘It’s Time to Consider Quitting the Catholic Church.’

The website quotes their co-president, Dan Barker, who called the required change “disappointing” and that it was "a sign of the Catholic Church’s inordinate power to intimidate and muzzle criticism.”

I’m sure everyone here is aware of the tremendous influence the Catholic Church has with the New York Times.

I am not buying it. It seems to me as though the New York Times is pretending to be concerned. What is the big difference between: “…Quit…” and “…Consider Quitting…”? As a matter of fact, '…Consider Quitting…" could very well be considered to be more effective. This change request was made public and lamented by that atheist organization - how convenient. You guard my back and I’Il guard yours.

I say the New York Times makes public how much exactly received for the one page ad they dared to publish attacking the Catholic Church and if any discount was given.

This reminds me of a time when a professor heard about a person who got caught trying to hurt a colleague career wise and financially. The professor’s said that the error the person did was to be so adamant about it. That sometimes it is more effective to ask a question regarding someones’s professional career to the right person and subtly put in to question an individual rather than out right criticize. Is this the psychology behind the New York Times changed on 'Quit" to “Consider Quitting”?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Why should it offer a discount?

Professional courtesy?

 

[Abba]

Professional courtesy?

…of comrades at arm.

 

[Faithful2]

The NY Times ad comes across either as an excuse to spew bigoted hate speech and ridicule towards the Catholic Church, or as a sign of desperation and instability in FFRF:
Parody translation of the FFRF ad at:
sytereitz.com/2012/03/translation-of-ffrf-quit-the-catholic-church-nytimes-ad-or-its-not-easy-being-free-from-religion/

 

[ceefo]

They are a small organization. I wouldn’t worry about it too much. They are entitled to their opinion, and to publish any advertisement they want to. The NY Diocese can counter with an ad of their own refuting the claims. But the money might better be spent elsewhere.

 

[jay29]

There is no such thing as a liberal or conservative Catholic. A person is either loyal or disloyal to Catholic Teachings.

 

[ceefo]

There is no such thing as a liberal or conservative Catholic. A person is either loyal or disloyal to Catholic Teachings.

The papacy, and the politics of the Church do swing back and forth, which affects dogma. Benedict XVI is considered to be conservative, and this is reflected in his teachings.

 

[jay29]

The papacy, and the politics of the Church do swing back and forth, which affects dogma. Benedict XVI is considered to be conservative, and this is reflected in his teachings.

Dogma doesn’t change. Limbo wasn’t a dogma, either. If you are against the teachings in the catechism you are a disloyal Catholic.

 

[ceefo]

I just think that the Church is political like any other big organization. The culture swings left and right depending on leadership. Nothing disrespectful was intended. I guess you could say I am agnostic. I am open to many of the ideas in Catholicism, but also skeptical.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I just think that the Church is political like any other big organization. The culture swings left and right depending on leadership. Nothing disrespectful was intended. I guess you could say I am agnostic. I am open to many of the ideas in Catholicism, but also skeptical.

Culture =/= Dogma

One the strongest points in the Catholic Church is that its dogma is what it was since Christ founded it 2000 years ago.

Anyways, on the subject at hand, there is a bright side to this: at least atheists now have their own fanatical kin to contend with just like any other group of adherents. If they don’t, they can hardly blame us for lumping them all together.

 

[Cinette]

I guess they think liberals are educated and should know better than to follow a bunch of old white men in dresses. It takes the atheists to give them permission to leave.

*I have been through the different stages. When I was young living under fascism I courted communism at one stage but then came the revolution and I saw exactly what it was all about! An Englishman said to me and I am sure that he was quoting Churchill “A conservative at 20 has no heart and a socialist at 40 has no head!” I remembered those words as I experienced another revolution and as I returned to the Catholic Church. As I learned more about my faith I became increasingly orthodox. I realise that liberals want things to change so that everything remains the same. (I think it might have been G B Shaw who said something similar). Today I am more inclined towards conservatives. Liberals talk such nonsense and approve of same sex marriage and abortion etc. Don’t they?

My husband was an atheist and I prayed for him and he witnessed little miracles in our lives which got him thinking. Today he is a daily communicant.

I have known a number of good people who are atheists and I sometimes wonder about “implicit faith” when I witness the goodness and kindness of some of them. You never know they might end up like the “good thief” on the cross next to Jesus.

That is why we should not judge I guess.

God bless
Cinette *

 

[Dale_M]

An article in America poses some interesting questions regarding this ad. We’ve covered before some of the basic issues which the article mentions. But the questions which are asked are: How do we go forward from here? And why?

The author is working on an academic study of de-conversion of Catholics. Its a topic about which, he says, little is known. I guess what he is wondering is: what are the practical ways to shore up the beliefs of Catholics and keep them from straying?

Whatever one thinks of this ad, it seems to mark a particular moment in the unfolding history of the Catholic Church in the United States. That a full-page ad in one of the most influential newspapers in the country would ask members of a major religious group to walk away from that group is an extraordinary occurrence.

I hope that before people take sides pro or con on the ad, before the tendency to separate into “evil vs. good” or “good vs. evil” here, we might be able to take this opportunity for some serious thinking, and ask: What is happening with religion in general and Catholicism in particular today that would make such a moment possible?

The ad trades on the newly widespread awareness that Catholicism is shedding adherents: that most Catholics live on the “lower” end between moderate and marginal affiliation, instead of high affiliation, and that a great many are actively disaffiliating. It trades on the widely understood distance between most Catholics’ beliefs and practices and official teaching on certain matters. Most important, as far as I can tell, is its remarkably confident appeal to a kind of personal agency that would make Catholics, who so often see religion as something akin to an ethnicity, walk away from it. The example the ad gives is that of an abusive marriage, and the FFRF is trying to help Catholics who are the victims-survivors of being married to Catholicism cry “Enough!” That such an exit is up for public consideration is one of the most telling points here regarding what is happening with religion in general and Catholicism in particular.

americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&entry_id=4981

I think the ad was overreaching, and unlikely to sway anyone. If anything, I think it was insulting enough to bind Catholics a little more tightly to their Catholic identity. But it is well known (at least to readers of this forum),that in the US a significant number of Catholics are leaving the Church. Only because of substantial Hispanic immigration has the percentage of Catholics in the US not declined. What can be done to stop this trend?

 

[Cinette]

The papacy, and the politics of the Church do swing back and forth, which affects dogma. Benedict XVI is considered to be conservative, and this is reflected in his teachings.

*When it comes to faith and religion I don’t believe that they are a matter of opinion. The truth is the truth and cannot be compromised. I would say that Benedict XVI is an orthodox and devoted man. We are so fortunate in having such a marvellous Pope - such a marvellous thinker and teacher. He is with us through the power of the Holy Spirit - no doubt about that.

God bless
Cinette*

 

[Cinette]

There is no such thing as a liberal or conservative Catholic. A person is either loyal or disloyal to Catholic Teachings.

*I am inclined to agree with you.

Cinette
*

 

[Cinette]

You are mistaken. These Cafeteria Catholics are our sacramental brothers and sisters in the faith, therefore, our strong yearning, and prayers, are for them to return to the fold (family).

What everyone here on CAF wants is for healing and unity. Heretics and apostates choose to ostracize themselves, and even then, we pray for their reconversions. Some of our Church’s greatest evangelists are lapsed Catholics who have seen the light, repented, ammended their lives, and come home to the “True Faith”.

And, as for the efforts of the “New Atheists”, we stand in opposition to any and all of them in toto, regardless of any other factors. Of that, you can be certain.

*When I was a Communist sympathiser I would be hurt if anyone labelled me as a “reactionary” a “rightist” or a “conservative”. I considered myself progressive and democratic. I never liked the word liberal because it suggested that the person was permissive and …er er…“laissez faire”!!!

Since my return to the Church I have become so very proud to be in the Catholic Church. The Church is the truth and more… it is both divine and human - it is also the largest charitable organization on the planet. The Church is non-threatening, generous and comforting. It is a great teacher and I simply am so grateful for the faith I have been given by the Holy Spirit. I want to tell the world! The Church has had more influence in the development of civilization throughout the ages and now it is attacked for that very reason - because it stands firm, because of its influence and because it will not compromise.

I pray that every Catholic will study and become sufficiently catechized so that they can defend the faith and share with the world. It is our duty!

God bless
Cinette *

 

[Cinette]

The dissidents have sent a clear message that they remain in the church only to affect change. They are not content to leave us and Church doctrine alone, and altho we pray incessantly for their conversion, we also pray that God will silence HIS enemies.

*Will the Cafeteria Catholics please stand up!!! :tiphat:

Engage with us! Tell us what is in your heart? Why are you angry? Why do you think that the Church should bow to your will? Why are you bent on “doing it your way”? Do you not trust Jesus? He said “…and upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail…I will send the Holy Spirit to guide you…”

Many believe that we should bend to the will of the majority! If the majority objects, they they are right and the Church should modify to make them happy.

I get the needle with Piers Morgan who keeps telling the world he is Catholic and then goes on to say the most terrible things. He wants to be popular so he bends to the secular world and the popular, new age, pop-culture…

Cinette *

 

[Cinette]

Since i am not in the USA I get my info from this forum and a number of blogs. It seems to me that bishops are starting to take a stand, that this situation and attack on religious freedom is uniting them. Something similar is happening in the UK with the ‘gay marriage’ movement. The church is finally standing up to the govrnment and advocating marriage. Of course, there are so many people who don’t really care because they are lukewarm, cultural catholics. But even they cannot ignore what is happening and cannot claim to be ignorant about these things. The church being clear on its teachings and not being afraid to discuss them will reach them with its message. People will thus have to take a side. I don’t think that strenght is necessarily in the numbers, so if the church consists of those who are faithful that is a good thing.

*You are so right! It is better that the Church consists of faithful Catholics than lukewarm ones. I don’t like lukewarm anything! Imagine lukewarm husband! Lukewarm coffee! Lukewarm beer! Passion is what is needed.

Gosh I am posting all by myself! Maybe it is because I am in the southern hemisphere and you are all sleeping right now.

Cinette *

 

[qui_est_ce]

*I have been through the different stages. When I was young living under fascism I courted communism at one stage but then came the revolution and I saw exactly what it was all about! An Englishman said to me and I am sure that he was quoting Churchill “A conservative at 20 has no heart and a socialist at 40 has no head!” I remembered those words as I experienced another revolution and as I returned to the Catholic Church. As I learned more about my faith I became increasingly orthodox. I realise that liberals want things to change so that everything remains the same. (I think it might have been G B Shaw who said something similar). Today I am more inclined towards conservatives. Liberals talk such nonsense and approve of same sex marriage and abortion etc. Don’t they?

My husband was an atheist and I prayed for him and he witnessed little miracles in our lives which got him thinking. Today he is a daily communicant.

I have known a number of good people who are atheists and I sometimes wonder about “implicit faith” when I witness the goodness and kindness of some of them. You never know they might end up like the “good thief” on the cross next to Jesus.

That is why we should not judge I guess.

God bless
Cinette *

We are privileged to have you as a member of CAF.

 

[Abba]

But it is well known (at least to readers of this forum),that in the US a significant number of Catholics are leaving the Church. Only because of substantial Hispanic immigration has the percentage of Catholics in the US not declined. What can be done to stop this trend?

Excellent question, Dale_M.

It can be a little tough in the secular world for Catholics. We are at war and it can get a little unpleasant in the arena. The Catholic Church is being attacked by the culture of the time (the zeitgeist). I don’t recall having been attacked and offended or rejected for being Catholic in the pass, but these past ten years it has become a common experience for me. This rejection and even disgust has come from Catholics who have left the Church on account of the pedophile scandals. They have told me that they left the Church because they do not want to be associated with an organization that has such problems. Others, have even denied me the professional services they were required to offer (an attorney for my father) based on the fact that they are practicing homosexuals and upon learning that I am a practicing Catholic detest me. It’s like I become enemy number one. I do not hide the fact that I am Catholic, it is who I am, and it is out there to be known. I sometimes wear a necklace with a cross, or gold earrings gifted to me from the Vatican that have a small cross, and I also have a rosary hanging from the mirror in my car. In my speech I am Catholic, I use Catholic examples and quotes etc… I make it no secret and this opens the doors for some attacks. Mostly the attacks are about the Catholic Church being pro-life, against same-sex marriages and the pedophile scandals.

To say that, one of the situations is the fact that Catholics are sometimes confronted in the secular world and this poses a problem to some who do not want to be rejected or alienated in society. I don’t know what to offer as a solution to this, but I wanted to point it out.

There is one problem for which you may quickly offer a solution that I would like to point out. That is the lack of preparation for Confirmation that the youngsters are receiving. It is very important to catechize the youngsters well and give them tools to defend the faith that is in them (Peter). forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=654535 This problem should not be neglected.

I also think that parents need to practice their faith. We are the best example for our children. We need to take them to church every Sunday.

P.s. I think CAF offers a good solution, too. People can participate here and learn to respond to attacks and find answers to serious questions they have, etc…

Parish can offer more groups to teach etc…
Peace,

Abba

 

[Cinette]

Excellent question, Dale_M.

It can be a little tough in the secular world for Catholics. We are at war and it can get a little unpleasant in the arena. The Catholic Church is being attacked by the culture of the time (the zeitgeist). I don’t recall having been attacked and offended or rejected for being Catholic in the pass, but these past ten years it has become a common experience for me. This rejection and even disgust has come from Catholics who have left the Church on account of the pedophile scandals. They have told me that they left the Church because they do not want to be associated with an organization that has such problems. Others, have even denied me the professional services they were required to offer (an attorney for my father) based on the fact that they are practicing homosexuals and upon learning that I am a practicing Catholic detest me. It’s like I become enemy number one. I do not hide the fact that I am Catholic, it is who I am, and it is out there to be known. I sometimes wear a necklace with a cross, or gold earrings gifted to me from the Vatican that have a small cross, and I also have a rosary hanging from the mirror in my car. In my speech I am Catholic, I use Catholic examples and quotes etc… I make it no secret and this opens the doors for some attacks. Mostly the attacks are about the Catholic Church being pro-life, against same-sex marriages and the pedophile scandals.

To say that, one of the situations is the fact that Catholics are sometimes confronted in the secular world and this poses a problem to some who do not want to be rejected or alienated in society. I don’t know what to offer as a solution to this, but I wanted to point it out.

There is one problem for which you may quickly offer a solution that I would like to point out. That is the lack of preparation for Confirmation that the youngsters are receiving. It is very important to catechize the youngsters well and give them tools to defend the faith that is in them (Peter). forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=654535 This problem should not be neglected.

I also think that parents need to practice their faith. We are the best example for our children. We need to take them to church every Sunday.

P.s. I think CAF offers a good solution, too. People can participate here and learn to respond to attacks and find answers to serious questions they have, etc…

Parish can offer more groups to teach etc…
Peace,

Abba

*Thank you for your enlightening post. I shall keep a copy and show others.

You are right that our godless society rejects Catholics but I am so proud. I was dressed in my gym clothes and when I read your post I immediately went and put on my Schoenveld cross (with our lady reaching up to Jesus on the cross). I wear it every day.

The lack of proper religious instruction for confirmation is certainly the number one reason for young people drifting away. I believe parishes should also offer Catechism for Adults because many are just cultural Catholics and really don’t know their Faith. The Catholic Faith is beautiful, interesting and exciting. I will pray all the more for Catholics - I already do.

Cinette
*