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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
Thatâs just what they want you to doâŚYou might not see me around tomorrow. I might have driven myself insane trying to understand all this.
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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
Just read the Old TestamentâŚtalk about not listening to GodâŚ
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mhpierce
Guest
Dear Snert:
Church members are evilâwe have had evil leaders;The Church is filled with evil ideas, disceminated by modernists and liberals but in itself, as a founded entity by Christâas nothing he did was evil, the Church as He envisioned it is not evil. It is supreme good. It is the conduit through which all men can and will be saved and the only one. There are not other paths towards salvation⌠none, excepting through the church and her means of salvation. If your believe that there are others and look for them, you will be lost. Thousands have tried doing this ***many pathways to salvation ******* and it proved to be fatal spiritually. You cannot reject Godâs Church and His words and expect positive resultsâNever.
Listen to me as I will tell you the truth about my faith as I have studied it. Your questioning is filled with pride and disobedience and useless speculations⌠I quote simple doctrines, dogmas and teachings that are eternalâas Saint Paul commanded, especially for these times. Cling to these and forget the restâmost of the hyperdrive, derisive commentary is hogwash!
âguesswho?-
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Snerticus
Guest
I donât know where you get me being confused. The only other person that ever told me I was confused was a Christian who didnât have a specific denomination but went to a Baptist Church. Iâm not confused. I believe in Jesus through His Church. The Church I belong to and am obedient to is the Catholic Church. Iâm not looking to go to another Church, as I know where the Truth lies. I am not confused about this. What makes you say I am confused?
And BTW, please answer my previous question.
Thanks.
Snert
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mhpierce
Guest
Dearest Phantom Writer and Questioner of Dogmas:
Good question!
You should read what really happened during that controversyâand how do you know that the Earth is not the real epicenter of the whole universe? Think aboutâthat could be! The real story, which is always taken out of context by Catholic haters, is much more interesting!
It was always been a belief and taught as a truthâThe Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Maryâdid you not know that? There is much written in our Sacred History about it. Much debate too! --Your favorite passtime!
The Assumtion was declaired a dogma in 1950âby Pope Pius XIIâand since then we must all profess to believe it or we cannot call ourselves Catholic. The Assumption was always a matter of the Deposit of Faith. Dogmatic pronouncements, when finally made by a pope, are a culmination of real facts- sort of speak. Declared dogmas are the frosting on the cake of belief and truths taught perpetually.
-mhpierceâ
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mhpierce
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Stop asking retorical questions if you believe in the Church then. Overt questioning about something denotes confusion. Read what i have written on this thread. I have answered many questions like yours, concerning what happened to the Church after 1965 and what she will always teach. But do they listen!!!???
Restate the question you want answered.
Profmhpierceâthe question gatherer.
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mhpierce
Guest
Dear Answer Warrior Snert:
YES (of course).
but it does not change its doctrines beacuse of a fake council!
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Snerticus
Guest
What is so rhetorical about a yes or no question? I canât restate it any more clear than the way I stated it.
Do you believe the Church has the ability to loose and bind?
Yes or no. Period. What is so hard about this?
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Snerticus
Guest
Then I am obedient to my Church. I donât see how I am disobedient. I donât complain about it. I donât like some of the parishes I go to, but that does not make the liturgy invalid (at least at the ones Iâve gone to). If you donât like what the Popes have done, pray for them. Jesus gave Peter (and therefore his successors) the keys to the kingdom and the powers to loose and bind. Whether you think itâs right or not, you need to obey what the Church says.Dear Answer Warrior Snert:
YES (of course).
There are many saints that Iâm sure youâve read about that were directly ordered by Jesus in visions etc⌠to obey their superiors even though the superiors were clearly wrong or sometimes under the influence of evil. We must do the same. The saints may have voiced concerns over obeying what they thought was wrong, but they never once badmouthed their superiors. Jesus promised he would be with us to the end of the age and the gates of the netherworld would not prevail against the Church. If you believe that, then you have to obey even what you would consider a fake council.
BTW, you once said the Vatican approved of Clown masses, etc⌠They most certainly did not. Nor did they approve liturgical dance - another abomination in my book. :banghead:
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Snerticus
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âŚanyway, can we get back on topic?..
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mhpierce
Guest
Listen Snerticus, and Listen well will you:âŚanyway, can we get back on topic?..
I am running out of patience with you. Kindly stop telling me what I have to believe about The Real Catholic Church. Let me put it this way, since the new mass was officiated on April 2, 1969 and since about 1970, when fake preists were beginning to be âordainedâ under a new form of the sacrament of ordination, I do not have to believe, anymore, anything those goes against traditions, doctrines and dogmas in the NEWCHURCH as it is a Protestan Church now.
I am a sedevacantist, an Orthodox Catholic as are many and that is the only position a real Catholic may hold today, and Call himself a Catholic and be saved. The Vatican Two crowd, including you are âoutside the Church.â
***You are to obey everything that the Real Church teaches excepting sin. Get it. Modernism, liberalism, the New Mass, the fake words used in it to concecrate, and a lot more since Vatican II is sinful. You cannot attend the new Mass since nothing takes place in it during the consecration, as the words were changed and they cannot be changed not even by a âpopeâ. When you attend you are committing the sin of Idolatry as you are worshiping only Bread and Wine, which Cannot be Consecrated under those phony auspices and a different prayer of Consecration. The Council of Trent stated that and to go against anything they published as anathemas ***is disobedience which Paul VI did, and it is a terrible sin. The new Mass is rejected by The Holy Spirit, as it is not A Mass, the Real Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is real, and it was protected, under obedience mind you, ordered by the Council of Trent to be prayed in the form they published only, in perpatuity (for now until the end of the world) and those are the facts. No pope or council can honestly change the Mass, as was done and not be outside the Church and a bonifide heretic!
Thatâs why it is so easy to say that you and many like you are outside the Catholic Church and are sinners as you do not obey properly, you are blind followers, and that is NOT WHAT JESUS TAUGHT, nor did Saint Paul or any of the Apostles, and most real Vicars of Christ excepting 42 Popes, four of whom have been in the chair of Peter since 1963! and are traitors of the church; no bishops and priests before VATICAN II were allowed to teach modernism, and some did and were supressed. How this came about is a long story, but it can be summed up in one word: disobedience by those in real positions of power inside the Church!
The last four Popes are heretics. And no, the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church; but there may be a very few members left in it. If there was one real Catholic left on the Earth, the Church would still be alive!
You do not know your faith, its tenants and a slew of other facts about what is to be believed and obeyed by a REAL Catholic.
Again: Kindly stop telling me and others, nind you,what the Church Teaches. I know what SteachesâI have studied it deeply, for years. You are committing grave erro when you sput the junk you do about Catholicism so it would be prudent of you to stop until your confusion is abated by some real education concerning the Church of Christ and his Popes and the real Sacraments He Instituted.
B]Blind obedience leads to sinfulness, as it goes against sound reason and the use of a free will, which God does not demand of anybody!
***GOD NEVER VIOLATES THE FREE WILL OF HIS CREATURES. ***
Whether you are aware of it that is what you are implying and that is a lie!
Pope John Paul II was silent about some of the clown-like New Fake Masses he attended, and there are many who have said they are okay to attend and many belive they are approved and they are if no one in rome puts a stop to it. It is the New Church that calls the Novus Ordo Missae a Mass, we real Catholics do not Because It Is Not The One, True Sacrifice. With the new form, anything goes with many people and we have seen that all over the worldâŚ
âmhpierce-
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bradwill911
Guest
Jesus Camp was indeed disturbing. It actually scared my wife. I am thankful for watching it, though, because it was one of the many things that led me back to the RCC.
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mhpierce
Guest
Snert
One more very necessary comment about ***obedience ***: Jesus never told anyone after Vatican II or before It to obey heretical Popes. He told Saints, and possible Saints about whom I have read and you as well, to obey their superiors, but not when they asked them to do something that was a sin, which few did and when they did, they were not obeyed! Jesus never told anyone to whom He manifested that is was alright to obey sinners who countenance sin, never.
He knew that the visionary knew that, as they were well form Catholics.
You are not telling the whole story in you exegesis. Most religious superiors have ordered visionaries and such to do many things the visionary thought was not right, or conducive to something they thought was thr right path, but they obeyed as their obedience was to a well intentioned superior and the visionary was not being asked to do anything, through obedience, that was sinful.
âmhpierceâ
One more very necessary comment about ***obedience ***: Jesus never told anyone after Vatican II or before It to obey heretical Popes. He told Saints, and possible Saints about whom I have read and you as well, to obey their superiors, but not when they asked them to do something that was a sin, which few did and when they did, they were not obeyed! Jesus never told anyone to whom He manifested that is was alright to obey sinners who countenance sin, never.
He knew that the visionary knew that, as they were well form Catholics.
You are not telling the whole story in you exegesis. Most religious superiors have ordered visionaries and such to do many things the visionary thought was not right, or conducive to something they thought was thr right path, but they obeyed as their obedience was to a well intentioned superior and the visionary was not being asked to do anything, through obedience, that was sinful.
âmhpierceâ
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OneTrueCathApos
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First of all you need to **get over Vatican II **In Vatican II **the basic Doctrines DID NOT CHANGE with the Council, **itâs influences and documents created more profound changes for the CC than occurred in the previous five hundred years. Since pope John XXII spoke of âopening the windowsâ of the church, great and gradual changes have occurred.
The Council produced 16 documents, some of which are described as the greatest expressions of Catholic social teaching in church history.
Vatican II marked a fundamental shift towards the modern church, the decisions of the Council, especially those regarding the Liturgy, affected the lives of Catholics around the world. After Vatican II, the use of vernacular language was permitted in the celebration of the Mass and in 1970, the new sacramentary and Novus Ordo (New order of the Mass), were established. Increased participation by the laity distinguishes Catholic life after the Second Vatican Council.
Bible study groups, marriage encounter, social action organizations, and the charismatic renewal movement are all fruits of the Council.
Vatican II made possible the many post- councillor, official church documents on Catholic social teaching.
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Veritas248
Guest
Jesus did promise that the Church would be protected from the Gates of Hell.
What do you propose that meant?
For heretics to deliberately change the Church, Jesus would have to be made a liar.
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Veritas248
Guest
***GOD NEVER VIOLATES THE FREE WILL OF HIS CREATURES. *
**
Whether you are aware of it that is what you are implying and that is a lie!
Pope John Paul II was silent about some of the clown-like New Fake Masses he attended, and there are many who have said they are okay to attend and many belive they are approved and they are if no one in rome puts a stop to it. It is the New Church that calls the Novus Ordo Missae a Mass, we real Catholics do not Because It Is Not The One, True Sacrifice. With the new form, anything goes with many people and we have seen that all over the worldâŚ
âmhpierce-
So am I to understand that God prefers one human language over another?
Are you sure that the matters changed were Doctrine and not Discipline?
Discipline can change. Doctrine cannot.
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Veritas248
Guest
I also have a question for all of you former Catholics who have fallen away:
Have you ever considered that the period in which you started to question Catholicism was a Test of Faith? Maybe God testing you to see how strong your faith was?
If it was a test of faith, you failed. Badly.
Have you ever considered that the period in which you started to question Catholicism was a Test of Faith? Maybe God testing you to see how strong your faith was?
If it was a test of faith, you failed. Badly.
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OneTrueCathApos
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mhpierce
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My Dear But Very Deluded OneTrueCathApos;4993726
How dare you, and I mean that: how dare you speak to mean in that tone?
I have written the Truth about Christ and His Church and You Blaspheme against Christ and His churchâitâs that simple. It is in all that you state in you defense against what I have written.
The Second Vatican Council and its aftermath are a horrendous story for the Church and that is a fact. This type of council in which many would âchangeâ and modernize the Church-whatever that means, was planned many decades before, by malcontents and liberals in the Church. Pope Pius XII (1939 - 1958) made note of that and the grumblings of many who wated to change the liturgy in the 1920âs.
He said and I paraphrase, âThat all arond me I hear of people wanting to change the Church, her rubics, the Mass. It is frightening and sad,â he commiserated, âfor it is nothing but modernism, which was condemned by Pope Saint Pius XâŚâ He also predicited such a Council as Vatican II, and he said the reults would be disasterous, as Man âWould forget Godâ and that terrible âtimes are in store for the Church in the near futureâŚâ
Who are you to tell me anything about what happened, since I lived through it as an adult and you have not. Have you read the 16 documents published by that CouncilâThey conatian over 202 heresies. Many true Catholics scholars have and they agree with meâthe documents are ambiguous and filled with errors, ideas that the Church had never tught.
Why have religious vocations plumeted since 1970, and why are dioceses falling apart and consolidating and closing once well run Catholic Schools, for example, in this New Church of yours? If that Council was not evil, then why are there so many unprecedented bad fruits that are a result of it? Read the posts in this Thread I have written about The Council of Trent and what was determined there, since what happened in Europe from 1517 on was an influx of heresies all perpatrated and fed by Matin Lutuher and the Revolt of the Protestants. Read what Pope Saint Pius V said and published about the Mass and perpatuity.
Kindly stop lecturing me about Vatican II, the fake Sacraments you attend and anything else you âthinkâ I am in error about. I am not, you are, and you seem grossly ignorant of the truth. You should change your name for you are not part of what is one, holy, Catholic and apostolic.âI need to be this stern with you as you do not know how or refuse to aceept historical, spiritual facts concerning the Church since 1958.
Bible study groups, marriage encounter, social action organizations, and the charismatic renewal movement are all fruits of the Council. Yes and the divorce and annulment rates are sky high, as all of these are bad fruits of that council and I could go on and on. Before that horrendous Council, these fruits did not exist as they do in NEWCHURCH. You should ponder why. There are no, I repeat no good fruits that have transpired since Vatican Two closed and many agree with me and the statistics that prove this statement are legion now, or are you lving with blinders onâŚ
The sacrament of Marriage is sacrosanct, and it always has been.-- Do you not recall the doctrinal teaching on the *** indissolveability of Marriage.***. The present tidal wave of annulments, granted by NEWCHURCH are blasphemous, to say the least. And there numbers are unprecedented in the Church too. No one excepting very few were ever, in all oof Church history before Vatican II, granted an annulment. All has changed though since Vatican Two ended. they are issued like toilet paper, and are worth much less, as divorce and remarriage are condemned by Catholicism and always will be.
I pray for heretics every morning, and I shall include you in them. I am sorry but you are truly deluded by what you attend as it is not, repeat, the one holy Catholic and apostolic Church that was once housed in Rome. It is an Apostate Churchâand that is the fact atpresent, despite you vain and uninformed protests to the contrary. You really have no real concept of what happened, why and how, do you?
âmhpierceâ
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mhpierce
Guest
Dear OneTrueCathApos;4993832]:
I am a sedevacantist Catholic, I assist at Mass almost daily and on Sundays at The Chapel of The Immaculate Heart of Mary, run by the Franciscan Order of Friars Minor, located at 3376 Mount Read Blvd., Rochester, NY 14616. My Bishops name is Bishop Giles Butler, OFM. He is available for consultations; 585 621 1122.
I have not fallen away from my faith, the One True Faith; you, however have. Itâs ironic, is it not?
You are a Protestant, thatâs all. You are not a Catholic, and âOutside the Church there is No Salvation For Anyone.â *** Rome and its fourth anti-pope and its Cardinals and Bishops, aand its many false priests, lmost all of them as well as the world wide laity, is now in Apostasy and Outside the one, true faithâfact.***. Why do you not join us? You know why. You are âcomfortableâ with liberalism and modernism, which are condemned and always will be.
âTruthfully yours
âmhpierceâ
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