:australia: LATEST: The US president-elect is interested in Australia's COVID-19 response | NSW is the 'gold standard' for COVID-19 management accordi

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pnewton said:
I did. The data. It is evidence. I did not say it was proof, or conclusive, or even the only evidence. But it is evidence. It is a reason, as in why it is a reasonable position that the United States has done a worse job than others, like Australia, in dealing with the COVID - 19.
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That’s not evidence of anything, if your goal is to keep the pandemic at a manageable level - the US has achieved this.

Australia can’t remain in quarantine until a vaccine is available.
 
pnewton said:
That is an opinion I will have to leave with you then. I do not know how to respond to the dismissing of data.
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I don’t dismiss the data, I recognize that Australia has far lower numbers than virtually all OECD countries.

But that doesn’t equal the US is doing a horrible job
  • US has a lower infection rate than Iceland, Spain, Switzerland, Belgium, Italy, Ireland, France.
  • US infection rate is only 10-20 % higher than Austria, Germany, UK, Netherlands
  • Only Sweden, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea,and Japan have significantly lower rates (of countries where I believe their stats).
Any country that is not overloading their capacity for ICU/ventilators is functionally managing the 1st wave, they are avoiding deaths because their capacity was overloaded.

I don’t see any evidence the US has done a horrible job. The highly negative media coverage isn’t translating to the global numbers.
 
pnewton said:
I do not know how this can be denied, that there is evidence to say that the United States is doing a really bad job and dealing with this outbreak
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I think eventually we’ll know how we compare with the rest of the first world. As to the dictatorships; the Chinas, the Irans and so many others, we’re never going to know the truth. I think for a significant number of countries, we’re not going to know because they don’t know themselves and don’t have the means of finding out. Most of those infected are asymptomatic, remember, and of the total numbers, not all that many die. Will it be clear how many people with other infectious diseases, malnutrition, or parasites truly died of CV19 in, say, Somalia or Kenya?

When it comes to the first world, the U.S. fares pretty well. To your list, you should add Switzerland, Ireland, Luxembourg and Iceland. (Though I grant those four do not have populations over 10 million) But the cases per million is nearly the same in the UK as here, and with a significantly higher death rate, which makes one wonder about the case numbers. Netherlands also has a higher death rate than the U.S.

When you look at the first world outside of Asia, the U.S. does pretty well, notwithstanding its high influx of people from the third world, high incoming travel rate, and very concentrated populations in some locales.
COVID Live Update: 188,884,696 Cases and 4,069,310 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer?
 
I think part of the reason Australia has done better than many countries is that it’s similar in size to the US but only has 25 million while the US has 330 million…it’s much easier to isolate communities…towns…cities because of the distances between them…there are only 6 mainland states and one island state (Tasmania)…the states have be able to close their borders because there are not a large number of highways crisscrossing the many states like here in the US…nor the many cities…for example…the Capital of South Australia…(Adelaide) is 1500 mile from the capital of Western Australia…(Perth) with one major highway between the cities…and no other city between…so much easier to control the flow of traffic and people…to isolate…plus being an island continent it was easier to close their international border…no doubt there are other reasons…and I wish them Gods blessing in their endeavor to control this virus…but with a population of 330 million we’re in an exponentially more difficult position…21000 deaths is terrible for sure…but out of 330 million I think we are doing the best we can…I just wish people would put their political differences aside and focus on defeating this virus…God bless America.
 
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7_Sorrows said:
200,000 + and right now we are at 20,000 +. I would say we are doing really well.
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20,000 dead grandmothers, grandfathers, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters is not proof of doing really well.

Someone said it was 15 cases soon to be 0.
 
The study seems to have been comparing two doses: 450 and 600mg. The patients who experienced heart arrhythmias, a known side effect especially at high doses over a long period of time, were taking 600 mg.

As one can see here, 600 mg is traditionally prescribed when people have little time to prepare to go to a place where they face exposure to malaria. Usually it is a longer regimen with smaller doses. Two doses of 600 mg are given with a consequent reduced dosage to treat a particular disease.

The article I read (since I can’t get on the NYT) said that additionally some of the participants died, but did not say what they died of, but this rendered the group taking the larger dose too small to continue the study.

We really know very little about the study or the state of the participants, so it is useless to try to draw any conclusions from it.
 
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Don’t jeopordize all the hard work done Australia.
It’s an ~12-minute interview so if you have data limits don’t watch it.
Such leadership at all levels of government despite some blunders along the way makes me want to be Australian.
:australia:

 
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ProVobis said:

Small Chloroquine Study Halted Over Risk of Fatal Heart Complications​

A research trial of coronavirus patients in Brazil ended after patients taking a higher dose of chloroquine, one of the drugs President Trump has promoted, developed irregular heart rates.
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After thinking about this ‘research’, I’m convinced it was agenda driven, designed to fail and deliver the above headline

They gave patients x2 and x3 the normal daily dose (but not x1 the dose).
They intentionally overdosed the patients and observed known side effects to justify shutting down the study.

I’d love to know who paid for this life threatening research study, perhaps that’s why it was small in scope and done in Brazil?

Made great headlines though, purpose served.
 
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The article I read in Spanish refers to this site medRXiv as the alleged source. Searching this site, I found the following which I understand is the one made reference to.
It also says: [This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.]

Too sensitive and specific about dosages to reach the general public unfiltered imo.
 
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graciew said:
The article I read in Spanish refers to this site medRXiv as the alleged source. Searching this site, I found the following which I understand is the one made reference to.
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Thanks, the funding was local per your link.
This study was funded by the Government of the Amazonas State, Farmanguinhos (Fiocruz), SUFRAMA, CAPES, FAPEAM, and federal funds granted by a coalition of Brazilian senators.
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I still wonder why they were testing at x2 and x3 the recommended dosage
 
Yes… that is the sensitive part. What is it ? Experimenting doubling dosages ? I don’t know and it isn’t my arena but…
It didn’t make sense when I read it this morning.
As I understood the article, there is this French Dr and his recommendation and sb or some source from China with their recommendation on a different dosage.
All in all , I fiind it dangerous to be spreading info about dosages and medicine not only this one but others which people buy ( they do …) as if we knew how and when and in what specific case or stage to self administer or self medicate. It is a danger .
 
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graciew said:
All in all , I fiind it dangerous to be spreading info about dosages and medicine not only this one but others which people buy ( they do …)
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In the US, these are all prescription medicines, so people don’t just go out and buy them. Doctors decide the doses, in this case, based on decades’ worth of use.

That’s kind of why one wonders why this “study” was even done. It was already known that high doses were dangerous.
@Theo @graciew

Thanks for the info about the study. One thing they concluded: “Given the enormous global push for the use of CQ for COVID-19, results such as the ones found in this trial can provide robust evidence for updated COVID-19 patient management recommendations.”

Don’t give the patients amounts already known to cause problems?
 
Hi Annie. People go and buy “ the” medicine beforehand while healthy. This is happening. And chloroquine appears in the news as other medicines used in other countries also.
I still think it it is a danger, because not every case is the same nor this virus attacks the same organs nor every person is a cookie cut in terms of physical condition nor will be. And there are adverse indications for each. That was my point.
As for any medicine, we all hope one or many work or will work,but this kind of study as it is spreading dosages in the news or by word of mouth ,to the general public and case studies, isn’t of any help imo. It is about each patient, each case, each of us, if and when the time comes. And I am not messing with doctors of individual cases and prescriptions. This is different.
Self medicating has always worried me particularly when access to doctors is expensive or difficult.
I don’t have any other thought behind my post but these because I know it is happening. Please don’t self medicate, this is my message…
 
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F_Marturana said:
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7_Sorrows:
200,000 + and right now we are at 20,000 +. I would say we are doing really well.
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20,000 dead grandmothers, grandfathers, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters is not proof of doing really well.

Someone said it was 15 cases soon to be 0.
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Please explain how we were going to go through a pandemic with zero deaths
@F_Marturana

20,000 deaths is far better than 200,000 deaths or 2 million deaths.

How many grandmothers, grandfathers, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons,
daughters, aunts, uncles and cousins die every year due to flu, car accidents,
strokes, heart attacks, cancer, etc.?

Someday we will all face death from something health related or accident
related.

I live in a county of 4.5 million and we only have 52 deaths. We must
have been doing something right the last 2 months. I am not saying more will
not die, but I think we are getting close to the peak and the number of cases and deaths will start decreasing.
 
7_Sorrows said:
20,000 deaths is far better than 200,000 deaths or 2 million deaths.
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It is worse than 2000 or 200.

And the question to address is what could we have done in February to have lessened the death tool, and even to do it at less cost to our economy. That question is important as we plan our way out and prepare to mitigate the second wave.
 
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