Austrian bishops barred from Jewish holy site in Jerusalem for wearing crosses

[RomanCrusader]

Thank you RC. I kept that thought within myself. Funny, that this thought will be attacked as anti-Semitic while the Cross is being insulted and being held up as something “evil.”

When St. Paul left the Holy Land to preach to the gentiles starting in Greece he was hounded by Temple assassins all the way to Rome.

St. Paul was a Roman citizen and therefore was not crucified as was St. Peter. Instead, St. Paul was beheaded–a form of execution for Roman citizens. There was much influence from the outside of Rome to persecute Christians.

There was a persecution of Christians very soon after Jesus’ Ascension into Heaven. The Acts of the Apostles mention how the Temple high priests sent spies into Damascus and Antioch to identify the christians so to persecute them.

In pagan Rome, Jews were NOT thrown into the Colisseum to be ravaged by wild animals or to be put to the sword or burned at the stake.

The Cross was NOT the symbol of the Early Church but instead it was the “sign of the fish.” This was used so christians would not be identified and put to death.

Even burial berths in the catacombs were marked with the “fish.” So that, for a pagan Roman passerby would not know it was a Christian buried in that berth. The “fish” was known only to Christians.

To say that Christians persecuted Jews under the sign of the Cross is a total falsehood and evil at its base. And this is a Catholic forum. There has to be some form repect shown by non-Catholic visitors…this is NOT a public/secular media propaganda outlet.

This Forum is to promote Christian ideals under the light of the Cross and must NOT be allowed to be insulted. To allow this is to invite persecution towards the Cross. This is supposed to be for non-believers to find Christ and NOT to insult Him.

AMEN!

Even after the Romans began to respect Christians, the Jews continued their persecutions. It was customary for the Jews to stone converts to Christianity. In synagogues there were prayers for Yahweh to exterminated the “sectaries” (Christians).

In Jerusalem, when the Persians invaded, the local Jews took advantage of the confusion, and together with the Persian pagans massacred 90,000 Christians. In Alexandria in 414 the Jews launched a pogrom to exterminate the Christians, killing thousands of innocent Christians. The Jews were eventually defeated and justly expelled from the city after this horrific crime.

Probably the most savage Jewish crime occurred in Inmester, Syria. On the holiday of Purim, a Jewish mob siezed a 10 year old Christian boy, bound him to a cross, and flogged him to death. Naturally the Romans enacted several anti-Jewish laws in response to this savage ritualistic murder. This true story is likely the basis for (false) tales of Jewish ritual murder using Christian children as passover blood during the middle ages.

I do not deny Christians persecuted Jews at times, and that is a shame. However the Jews have blood on their hands as well, and they persecuted Christians for a 500 year period. To say the Jews are always the victim is a lie.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

So, what happened to those 2,000 years of Jewish persecutions by the Christians?

The “victim” label is a ploy to insult and persecute others; in this case Christians.

The event at the wailing Wall is only a peek into the hate that some harbor for the Son of God. To hate Jesus is to hate His Father and the Holy Spirit. The hatred runs so deep that the haters lost all perspective of concealing their hate for us.

If they hate Jesus (and they reveal this by their objection to the Cross) they hate us. Funny, the hate is not returned but rather a sympathy for these lost souls that, if they die in this malady, may never see God in all His glory face-to-face.

Christians pray that these wayward ones, by some epiphany, realize that it is the Cross that is the sign of salvation. Those that hate Christ can never know the fullness of love for their neighbor. To hate Him is to hate us.

So, if we said, “… the Star of David is a symbol of blind hatred…,” how would that be received?

We know where we stand by that shameful event at the Wall.

---

I apologize Lord Jesus for all those that hate us.

 

[Valke2]

I’m sorry you feel that way. Especially given that the only thing I walk away from after reading your posts is the feeling of being pitied by the arrogant.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Rather, : it is the arrogant that are being pitied.

__
Glory to the Son of God !

 

[Kaninchen]

All rather different from the attitude of the good Cardinal himself:

Afterwards the bishops visited Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Martyrs’ and Heroes’ Remembrance Authority, where during a speech Schonborn referred to the incident at the holy site.

“I do not feel disappointed because we have seen the Wall from the terrace and we were able to participate in the prayers of the Jews from afar. Our decision to heed the requests not to approach the Wall was made out of respect for the religious sensitivities of the Jews.”

jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380799940&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

I expect that’s far more representative of orthodox Catholicism.

 

[chosen_people]

Even taken into account religious sensitivity at the most holy sight in Judaism and even taking into account past Church persecutions of Jews, the action of the Rabbi in barring the Bishops from approaching the western wall was disrespectful and intolerant. It is only natural that Catholic Bishops wear crosses and their wearing crosses was not an act of provocation but of personal religious belief. Their vist to the site was no doubt just as interested tourists and not for any provocative reason. Israel takes pride in allowing holy places to be open to all. The actions of the Rabbi was by an individual only and contrary to stated Israeli policy.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

All rather different from the attitude of the good Cardinal himself:

jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380799940&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

I expect that’s far more representative of orthodox Catholicism.

The incident, albeit involved the Austrian bishops, is in truth about the Cross. It exposes the hatred some have towards the Cross. The comments by the bishops were more concilliatory towards a hostile group. When they show hatred for the Cross; and call the Cross a sign of persecution for 2,000 years (a total fabrication) they are bearers of hate.

The Catholic world takes exception for the way the bishops were treated but it is the Cross that was the object of the insult. That is foremost.

Why is it that you just don’t get it?

There is no inbetween. They hate the Cross (Jesus) they hate us.

__

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Even taken into account religious sensitivity at the most holy sight in Judaism and even taking into account past Church persecutions of Jews, the action of the Rabbi in barring the Bishops from approaching the western wall was disrespectful and intolerant. It is only natural that Catholic Bishops wear crosses and their wearing crosses was not an act of provocation but of personal religious belief. Their vist to the site was no doubt just as interested tourists and not for any provocative reason. Israel takes pride in allowing holy places to be open to all. The actions of the Rabbi was by an individual only and contrary to stated Israeli policy.

“…the actions of the Rabbi was by an individual…” True! But it was enforced. Therein lies the rub. To allow this rabbi the empowerment to insult is confounding. It never should have happened but just as important: will this be the ongoing rule in the future?

 

[Valke2]

Even taken into account religious sensitivity at the most holy sight in Judaism and even taking into account past Church persecutions of Jews, the action of the Rabbi in barring the Bishops from approaching the western wall was disrespectful and intolerant. It is only natural that Catholic Bishops wear crosses and their wearing crosses was not an act of provocation but of personal religious belief. Their vist to the site was no doubt just as interested tourists and not for any provocative reason. Israel takes pride in allowing holy places to be open to all. The actions of the Rabbi was by an individual only and contrary to stated Israeli policy.

I’d agree with that. But I also would not have a problem if the Rabbi had contacted them prior to their appointment at the wall and asked that they conceal their crosses.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

I’d agree with that. But I also would not have a problem if the Rabbi had contacted them prior to their appointment at the wall and asked that they conceal their crosses.

You STILL don’t get it. Whether it was spontaneous or in advance of the arrival at the Wall it was insulting to the dignity of Catholics because it is the Cross that was the object of hatred. It never should have happened. This kind of action is of one of a zealot not very different than some radical clerics in the Muslim world. No difference whatsoever.

Hate is hate and nobody gets a pass on it especially when it is aimed at people who come in reverence, as the bishops.

If you can just get by the “protocol” lapse and come to realize that it is a revelation of a deep, burning hatred towards God’s Son. Then, you will be sensitive to others rather than a kind of procedural glitch. It was wrong and hateful.

__
God sent His only Son into the world so tat the world may be saved.

 

[Kaninchen]

Why is it that you just don’t get it?

I have no problem whatsoever in understanding exactly where you’re coming from.

There is no inbetween. They hate the Cross (Jesus) they hate us.

Oh, I think total indifference to the Cross would be a great step forward. For some, however, the memories are still raw.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

I have no problem whatsoever in understanding exactly where you’re coming from.

Oh, I think total indifference to the Cross would be a great step forward. For some, however, the memories are still raw.

If total indifference was the aura this hateful incident never would have occured. The Rabbi in question mustn’t ever be appointed Commissioner of Tourism.

 

[Kaninchen]

If total indifference was the aura this hateful incident never would have occured. The Rabbi in question mustn’t ever be appointed Commissioner of Tourism.

On that we can agree.

Perhaps tour leaders might suggest a certain level of sensitivity as well.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

On that we can agree.

Perhaps tour leaders might suggest a certain level of sensitivity as well.

That is for another thread and it would be a hijacking of the point started here. It is a divergent topic and is off topic inasmuch as the insults to the Catholic world. It is NOT germane.

 

[Kaninchen]

That is for another thread and it would be a hijacking of the point started here. It is a divergent topic and is off topic inasmuch as the insults to the Catholic world. It is NOT germane.

I find myself in the odd situation where I feel myself to be on the same side as the Cardinal where I honestly do see you as being on the same side as the Rabbi.

You might spend a few seconds wondering just why I say that (hint: it’s not to do with crosses).

 

[bones_IV]

I think the rabbi here at the western wall who did this to the Austrian bishops has the Devil as his father. It shows his rejection of Catholic faith. Few will go to heaven.

 

[Valke2]

You STILL don’t get it. Whether it was spontaneous or in advance of the arrival at the Wall it was insulting to the dignity of Catholics because it is the Cross that was the object of hatred. It never should have happened. This kind of action is of one of a zealot not very different than some radical clerics in the Muslim world. No difference whatsoever.

Hate is hate and nobody gets a pass on it especially when it is aimed at people who come in reverence, as the bishops.

If you can just get by the “protocol” lapse and come to realize that it is a revelation of a deep, burning hatred towards God’s Son. Then, you will be sensitive to others rather than a kind of procedural glitch. It was wrong and hateful.

__
God sent His only Son into the world so tat the world may be saved.

No Offense, but I don’t think we have anything to say to each other. I wish you well.

 

[RomanCrusader]

I’m sorry you feel that way. Especially given that the only thing I walk away from after reading your posts is the feeling of being pitied by the arrogant.

Arrogant? Your one to talk Valke.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Oh, I think total indifference to the Cross would be a great step forward. For some, however, the memories are still raw.

What memories? Are there 700 year old Jews still alive who remember those naughty medieval folks?

Seriously though, what “memories”?

 

[chosen_people]

I think the rabbi here at the western wall who did this to the Austrian bishops has the Devil as his father. It shows his rejection of Catholic faith. Few will go to heaven.

Ah yes, the Jew as the Devil, forever cursed and damned to Hell for rejecting the Catholic faith. Although I disagree with the actions of the Rabbi, you indeed have made a strong argument in his defence.