Authentically black and truly Catholic

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It can be difficult for a Catholic whose background and culture do not match the majority of his parish to fit in anywhere. For example, I have worshipped at majority Filipino parishes, and I am sure many of those folks would have been uncomfortable in the all white parish I grew up in. I am even more certain that some of the practices and celebrations in those parishes would have seemed foreign in my birth parish. But I have always thought it must be most difficult for black Catholics. We should not forget that black Catholics were actively discriminated against by our brother Catholics in many parts of the US. In many places, Catholic parishes were segregated - black Catholics were not allowed to worship at the regular Catholic parishes, they had to found their own. The priests for those churches were not provided by the local bishop (at least not in Virginia) – they were provided by the Josephites (an English missionary group) and the Holy Fathers (a French missionary group). This is not ancient history - the practice continued until the early 1960s. With that background, combined with the natural discomforts and frictions that can come from different backgrounds, it is no surprise that many black Catholics might feel unwelcome or excluded in some parishes.
From what I know, Filipinos were segregated from the Spanish in the church back then during the colonial rule of Spain. Spain established a very segregated soceity. The top of the food chain is the Peninsulares, or full Spanish born in Europe. One level below is the Insulares, or a child born to Spanish parents in the colonies. Then below that is the Mestizo, or half-Spanish. And at the bottom is the Indio, the natives of the colonized land.
 
We don’t go there for a singalong; and quite frankly I am relieved that we never sing any of those accursible protestant songs;
Songs about Jesus are accursible? (Accursible is not a word, should be accursed) It’s hard to make a case to Protestants that Catholicism is correct when you call their practices accursed. There are at least a couple places where the Psalms encourage one to praise God with new songs and with instruments.
 
Songs about Jesus are accursible? (Accursible is not a word, should be accursed) It’s hard to make a case to Protestants that Catholicism is correct when you call their practices accursed. There are at least a couple places where the Psalms encourage one to praise God with new songs and with instruments.
I agree that the Protestant songs and form of worship aren’t accursed. However, when it comes to liturgy, many of them aren’t proper. This was equally true in Jewish liturgy, even with the Psalms mentioning lute, harp, dancing, etc.

May the Lord bless you on your journey.
 
I agree that the Protestant songs and form of worship aren’t accursed. However, when it comes to liturgy, many of them aren’t proper. This was equally true in Jewish liturgy, even with the Psalms mentioning lute, harp, dancing, etc.

May the Lord bless you on your journey.
Agreed. I would definitely say that many Protestant worship songs are shallow and devoid of any deep theology. “Let it Rise” is a good example, as it’s just the same few shallow sentences repeated over and over. One of the main attractions of the Catholic Church to me is the Liturgy and the deepness/richness of it. I’ve grown weary of shallow worship music.
 
One of the main attractions of the Catholic Church to me is the Liturgy and the deepness/richness of it. I’ve grown weary of shallow worship music.
Then you are ready for gospel music in the American Protestant tradition.
 
Not sure what you’re getting at…
If you are tired of ‘shallow worship music’ and appreciate the deepness and richness of the liturgy, then a gospel Mass has much more meaningful, emotional and rich music. The problem is that gospel music is not a tradition in the American Catholic Church, but the music is much more aligned with some Protestant sects, such as Baptists.
 
Strange article. Is Kwanzaa something that black Catholics celebrate? What makes a black person “authentically black?”
Louis Armstrong said: “If you have to ask what jazz is, you’ll never know.”
 
Louis Armstrong said: “If you have to ask what jazz is, you’ll never know.”
What does that have to do with “authentically black?”. The only other time I’ve heard the phrase used was when black people were questioning the “blackness” of other black people. Apparently, some people, and their personal preferences, are more “authentically black” than others. 🤷

From what I can tell, it is just a form of elitism.
 
If you are tired of ‘shallow worship music’ and appreciate the deepness and richness of the liturgy, then a gospel Mass has much more meaningful, emotional and rich music. The problem is that gospel music is not a tradition in the American Catholic Church, but the music is much more aligned with some Protestant sects, such as Baptists.
It appears to me that the post Vatican II changes have put local liturgies and certainly music, into the hands of the local liturgists and music directors, particularly the latter. Consequently, it also seems to me that music tends to follow the cultural overlay of a given area, or at least it’s trending that way.

True, we are still afflicted by the faux folk songs that got imposed on everyone, largely in the 1970s. However, to the extent music directors depart from that ghastly repertoire (and many do) they tend to either turn to classical works (yes, European, because to the extent there may be, e.g., Japanese “classics” of equal merit, nobody knows about them) or things that have local cultural roots. But fundamentally, the Novus Ordo in most places is a “base paint” to which pigment has to be added from somewhere.

I live in a “southern mountain” area. There is, very obviously to me, a trend toward that music which is part of the local culture. It isn’t entirely so, but we get more and more “southern gospel” and old mountain tunes. I have been to a black parish in St. Louis that in many ways is indistinguishable from non-Catholic black congregations when it comes to music, expression, and so on. Interestingly, there seems to be a sort of “cross-culturalization” going on, as more and more black protestant churches tend to take on “Catholic” vestments, titles of “bishop” in otherwise non-heirarchical congregations, etc. We have a significant number of Hispanics in one of the parishes, and the music for the Spanish Masses is (Mexican) Hispanic all the way. In my diocese there is a Vietnamese seminary. They have an annual event attended by tens of thousands of (mostly) Vietnamese. The Masses at that event are very, very Vietnamese.

Of course, many years ago, the Mass and largely the music, was pretty uniform worldwide. That really did change with Vatican II. Traditional non-liturgical events were very much determined by the local cultures. Because of history, most Catholic arrivals in this country were rather late in its history. Consequently, Church events probably appear “European” to many, depending on where one lives. Cultural things tend to live a good deal longer than most of us expect, so I don’t know that anyone can really say the “lack of black music or traditions” in any given parish is due to any kind of discrimination. I think most parishes simply tend to take on the music and traditions of whatever the biggest ethnic group is in the parish. Interestingly, urban environments tend to concentrate ethnic groups as well.

To the poster who proposed Germany hymns. Not to send you outside the Church, but you can certainly hear them in a Lutheran congregation in my diocese. (Mo Synod) Lutherans tend to retain far more Teutonic ways than do German Catholics.
 
What does that have to do with “authentically black?”. The only other time I’ve heard the phrase used was when black people were questioning the “blackness” of other black people. Apparently, some people, and their personal preferences, are more “authentically black” than others. 🤷

From what I can tell, it is just a form of elitism.
Hi.

To be “authentically Black” is a form of elitism. I am Black to my blood (having a hemoglobin type from Western Africa that means my ancestors were exposed to malaria). Yet, most Blacks would shun me because I don’t “act Black.” Oh, well. I suspect they missed Dr. King’s memo on the “content of the character and not color of skin” note. 🤷

And here I am, come November 6, about to marry into a big German Catholic family, surrounded by my two best friends, both German Catholic.

I answered a similar question before in this thread, regarding Father Pflieger’s comments on the matter, but I will copy my answer here again.
Based on a third-party 2004 poll noted in this Wikipedia article on the Church in the U.S., the general population of Catholics by race in the U.S. is thus:
Code:
* 60% non-Hispanic white (Irish, German, and so on)
* 31% Hispanic (any race)
* 4% Black
* 5% All others (Filipinos, Native Americans, etc.)
While the priest is correct in his assertion that there are few Black Catholics in America, he incorrectly asserts that this is due to some form of discrimination against blacks. That’s only partially true.
America was founded by many who were Protestants, specifically those fleeing the Church of England, such as Puritans and Congregationists, virtually all of them Caucasian. Groups such as these and others had no love for the CofE, and especially not the Catholic Church.
As America grew, Protestantism followed. Catholics who arrived in America suffered immense persecution and discrimination. Since African slaves were only exposed to the faiths of what their owners held, it follows that many Blacks learned and passed on Protestant Christianity. This EWTN article summarizes how the Church reconciled this issue and learned to shake what racism its membership had with Blacks.
The priest’s further assertion that the Church is racist does not follow if one looks at the statistics in Africa, where Catholicism has tripled in membership since 1978 (per the quasi-official Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano).
So, in short, while there are far fewer Blacks in the Church by percentage of the American population (of which I count myself as part of the Black statistic), the reasons have more to do with the hold of Protestant Christianity’s roots in American history and very little to do with any action or inaction done by the Church or its members.
 
CNN) A Kwanzaa table was a no-no.
Kwanzaa is a different religion.

Are there any Spirituals that have Catholic lyrics? 🙂
My church has only one black person as church’s member. Black Catholics are as rare as endangered tigers.
My parish has people of every colour and race. At Mass, we sing Gregorian Chant as much as possible. At parties (and we have lots of great parties at our parish), we sing everything else. 👍
 
Impossible. Black folks in the US live in a classless society.
Ah, I see. So black folks are immune to the shortcomings existent in the rest of the human population? Give me a break. You’ve just reinforced that it is a case of elitism.
 
Hi.

To be “authentically Black” is a form of elitism. I am Black to my blood (having a hemoglobin type from Western Africa that means my ancestors were exposed to malaria). Yet, most Blacks would shun me because I don’t “act Black.” Oh, well. I suspect they missed Dr. King’s memo on the “content of the character and not color of skin” note. 🤷

And here I am, come November 6, about to marry into a big German Catholic family, surrounded by my two best friends, both German Catholic.

I answered a similar question before in this thread, regarding Father Pflieger’s comments on the matter, but I will copy my answer here again.
Thanks Spencerian, but I don’t think any of the “authentically black” posters are going to accept your points. You obviously need to be re-educated and start celebrating fabricated cultural celebrations, so you can authenticate yourself. Otherwise, you aren’t part of the group.
 
It’s advertised around here as a replacement for the celebration of Christmas, for non-Christian people of black African heritage.
So instead of celebrating Christmas, one can have a cultural celebration. That does not establish a different religion.

You should also note that many Christian churches have Kwanza celebrations.
Ah, I see. So black folks are immune to the shortcomings existent in the rest of the human population? Give me a break.
No. Its well known that they all get lumped together regardless of their station in life. A classless society is forced upon them. Danny Glover, a millionaire, could not catch a cab, an incident which I will not discuss.
 
So instead of celebrating Christmas, one can have a cultural celebration.

You should also note that many Christian churches have Kwanza celebrations.
There are also lots of Christian churches who celebrate Seder suppers, and have Koran study groups. It doesn’t make these things to be Christian, or acceptable for Catholic churches. 🙂
 
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